quote Originally posted by Lambo nut: When I hit my brakes, my lights sequence only once. They do not keep doing it. So when I hit the brake pedal, my inner lights do come on instantly, and stay on. Then the middle, then the outer. Process takes about a second, maybe less. If some one is follow me that close, they are too damned close. The other two are just extra brakelights, as a reminder for the first. First set is all that is needed to be legal, in any state. And yes, I still hope everyone on the road stops when they see red. If they don't, then they don't belong on the road in the first place. And with just a quick search, someone seems to think they are legal in FL at least. About 3/4 down the page. http://www.challengertalk.c...-lights-legal-13997/ Anyone know where to find the correct laws, instead of just making them up. Kevin

You have to realize, there are THOUSANDS of peoiple driving that DON'T BELONG ON THE ROAD!
They are saying sequential turn signals are legal. If you read down further, it says the law reads "Flashing lights are prohibited on vehicles except as a means of indicating a right or left turn, to change lanes, or to indicate that the vehicle is lawfully stopped or disabled upon the highway". Notice (the next poster didn't) that it says to indicate that the vehicle is STOPPED OR DISABLED - not STOPPING. As in having your flashers on. Notice it also says "Flashing lights are prohibited" EXCEPT in the above cases.
I'm not arguing, but I'll say it one more time: IF YOU GET HIT IN THE REAR & THE GUY SAYS YOUR LIGHTS FLASHED ACROSS THE BACK YOU'LL BE HELD LIABLE BECAUSE YOU'VE MODIFIED YOUR BRAKE LIGHTS!.
Go to your state website & look it up yourself. I'm sure you'll find that flashing brake lights are illegal. And lights that flash on in sequence could be considered "flashing". It may be semantics, but do you really want to risk your car being hit in the first place, much less fighting it in court?
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Pardon my driving; I'm reloading.

Well, I stand corrected, mine do sequence the one time... of course, mine sequence so quickly, it's probably /less/ of an issue... While I'm sure it's perfectly safe, I do know what you mean about what will happen in the event I do get hit, even if it has nothing to do with it...

[This message has been edited by Twilight Fenrir (edited 08-05-2009).]

An off the wall thought that will cost more and won't be stock is have one set of lights for the turn signals and another for the brake lights. Good time to upgrade to LEDs.

awesome

Twilight Fenrir,

My turn signals also fail to sequence, when the headlights/running-lights are on.

Did you finally find a solution?

------------------
""I'm not driving too fast, . . . I'm just flying too low."
Home of the Thestral Fiero
VirtualShowCar
4.9 ongoing project

I was just playing one time and drew this up. By adding one more relay, couple of transistors and a few diodes it adds an "AND" circuit that would turn all of them on at the same time to the normal relay seq. board.
When both side brake lights have power it closes the top relay and turns on all four seq. relays through the isolation diodes.

Oops your right Lambo in fact the they would act kind of strange. For a normal stop with no turn signal they would all turn on at the same time an normal. But I think if you where braking with a turn on the side that is flashing would blink kind of wierd since all three blubs would turn on and off at about the same time.

[This message has been edited by Dodgerunner (edited 08-06-2009).]

quote Originally posted by Tha Driver: You have to realize, there are THOUSANDS of peoiple driving that DON'T BELONG ON THE ROAD! They are saying sequential turn signals are legal. If you read down further, it says the law reads "Flashing lights are prohibited on vehicles except as a means of indicating a right or left turn, to change lanes, or to indicate that the vehicle is lawfully stopped or disabled upon the highway". Notice (the next poster didn't) that it says to indicate that the vehicle is STOPPED OR DISABLED - not STOPPING. As in having your flashers on. Notice it also says "Flashing lights are prohibited" EXCEPT in the above cases. I'm not arguing, but I'll say it one more time: IF YOU GET HIT IN THE REAR & THE GUY SAYS YOUR LIGHTS FLASHED ACROSS THE BACK YOU'LL BE HELD LIABLE BECAUSE YOU'VE MODIFIED YOUR BRAKE LIGHTS!. Go to your state website & look it up yourself. I'm sure you'll find that flashing brake lights are illegal. And lights that flash on in sequence could be considered "flashing". It may be semantics, but do you really want to risk your car being hit in the first place, much less fighting it in court? ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver" Pardon my driving; I'm reloading.

Maybe more like Millions.

And I fully agree, "flashing" brakelights would seem illegal. As in on, off, on off, on, off.........

I was refering to this post by "kuda", in which they were specifically talking about the brake lights.
"Deep Water is correct (for Florida at least). Florida Statute title 23 section 316.2397 Certain lights prohibited; exceptions.--states;

(7) Flashing lights are prohibited on vehicles except as a means of indicating a right or left turn, to change lanes, or to indicate that the vehicle is lawfully stopped or disabled upon the highway

So since the sequential brake lights don't flash, they're legal (in Florida). The same may not be true for brake light pulsers."

I guess we all have a different understanding of what flashing, and sequencing mean. Especially when the sequencing process only happens once. My brake lights come on and stay on, they don't flash. As a matter of fact, I'll go so far as to say, I believe my brake lights are actually safer then the factory, as in they draw more attention, during the braking process. I'll take that atvantage anyday.

Kevin

If you guys use the Web Electric Sequencers there is an extra wire to hook to the brake switch that eliminates the sequencing whith the brakes on. I have put these on two cars very nice with no problems .

quote Originally posted by Fiero STS: If you guys use the Web Electric Sequencers there is an extra wire to hook to the brake switch that eliminates the sequencing whith the brakes on. I have put these on two cars very nice with no problems .

Yes but don't they want like 80 bucks for it?
I built mine for about 9 bucks.

Kevin

quote Originally posted by Lambo nut: Well, I just found and checked my states rules on this, and I'm good to go. http://www.moga.mo.gov/STATUTES/C307.HTM Makes no mention of a squencing brake light. Only refers ro flashing, more specific, alternating flashing, only allowed on emergency vehicles, and busses. I found nothing saying what I have is illegal in Missouri. Kevin

You're still missing my point. Why take the chance that for some idiot (or little ol' lady, or whoever) it just dosen't register that the sequencing lights are brake lights when you slam on your brakes for someone that pulled out in front of you? By the time they realize your brake lights are on, it's too late & your little car is smashed all to hell. Then you have a lawsuit 'cause YOU altered your brake lights, & YOU have to pay for their car & all their medical expenses. Just not worth the chance. Even if you DID save a WHOLE $71.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have. - Thomas Jefferson.

quote Originally posted by Lambo nut: Yes but don't they want like 80 bucks for it? I built mine for about 9 bucks. Kevin

yours might be cheaper but theirs works.

for that flashing light thing only applying to indicate a turn or a means of hazard to other drivers from that vehicle, would this inclue the pulsing 3rd brake light? ive seen ambulances have pulsing brake lights, cop bikes have pulsing brake lights and some with a pulsing 3rd brake light. granted thats on an emergency vehicle, but for safety. theyre not on like that only when the emergency lights are on, they are on every time the brakes are applied. so how does the pulsing brake light work on the law side of things? to me, it seems its ok and a go.

[This message has been edited by americasfuture2k (edited 08-06-2009).]

Brake lights that sequence out to the full three lights and stay lit are not by definition flashing. Federal DOT defines flashing as a light going fully off and on in a repeated manner.

And just for the record you are only required to have one brake light filiment per side on the rear of a car. If your car has more than that you are required to maintain them, so that the sides of the car are balanced (appear to be the same on both sides).

As for sequencial turn signals being legal in all states...... take a look at the new Mustang. It comes with them.

quote Originally posted by Sebringdcp: Brake lights that sequence out to the full three lights and stay lit are not by definition flashing. Federal DOT defines flashing as a light going fully off and on in a repeated manner. And just for the record you are only required to have one brake light filiment per side on the rear of a car. If your car has more than that you are required to maintain them, so that the sides of the car are balanced (appear to be the same on both sides).

Save your breath Sebringdcp......we are wasting our time.

quote Originally posted by Fiero STS: yours might be cheaper but theirs works.

And what the F#$@ is that supposed to mean! Mine works too. Works the same as most that are sold on the web/ebay. The one you mention, might be the only different one out there. Do some searching if you don't believe me.

quote Originally posted by Tha Driver: You're still missing my point. Why take the chance that for some idiot (or little ol' lady, or whoever) it just dosen't register that the sequencing lights are brake lights when you slam on your brakes for someone that pulled out in front of you? By the time they realize your brake lights are on, it's too late & your little car is smashed all to hell. Then you have a lawsuit 'cause YOU altered your brake lights, & YOU have to pay for their car & all their medical expenses. Just not worth the chance. Even if you DID save a WHOLE $71. ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"

And apparently you don't see the true point. You seem to have it in your head it is illegal to alter the brake lights in any fashon, but I have yet to see any proof of this, as in a link to a web site etc. I have found they can not be flashing. I have also found for my state, they mention flashing, and nothing about sequencing, (they are different) so I'll stick with that. I'm legal, which I am according to my state statutes, then I am doing nothing wrong. Simple as that.
Also congratulations, you can do simple math.


Kevin

quote Originally posted by Lambo nut: And apparently you don't see the true point. You seem to have it in your head it is illegal to alter the brake lights in any fashon, but I have yet to see any proof of this, as in a link to a web site etc. I have found they can not be flashing. I have also found for my state, they mention flashing, and nothing about sequencing, (they are different) so I'll stick with that. I'm legal, which I am according to my state statutes, then I am doing nothing wrong. Simple as that. Also congratulations, you can do simple math. Kevin

My POINT is that no mater whether it's legal or not, there's a good chance that someone will hit you in the ass if you have to slam on the brakes for some reason! But if you don't care about your car (or a possible lawsuit), nothing I say will convince you...
SHEESH!

quote Originally posted by Tha Driver: My POINT is that no mater whether it's legal or not, there's a good chance that someone will hit you in the ass if you have to slam on the brakes for some reason! But if you don't care about your car (or a possible lawsuit), nothing I say will convince you... SHEESH!

And my point is, there is NO reason someone would more likely to hit me in my ass, due to my brake lights the way they are. No more then any other brake light set up on any other car. Yes, there is always a chance someone will hit you in the ass if you have to slam on your brakes for some reason. This is true in any vehicle.
And you keep bringing up lawsuit also. Once again, when it is legal, there is nothing they can do about it. Nothing you need to convince me of really.
At least you have gone form "It's illegal in every state", to "whether it's legal or not". We're making headway.

Kevin

quote Originally posted by Lambo nut: And my point is, there is NO reason someone would more likely to hit me in my ass, due to my brake lights the way they are. No more then any other brake light set up on any other car. Yes, there is always a chance someone will hit you in the ass if you have to slam on your brakes for some reason. This is true in any vehicle. And you keep bringing up lawsuit also. Once again, when it is legal, there is nothing they can do about it. Nothing you need to convince me of really. At least you have gone form "It's illegal in every state", to "whether it's legal or not". We're making headway. Kevin

Well I'm not going to look up the laws in every state to see EXACTLY how they read for you. But I CAN tell you that I know a LOT of cops that would write ME a ticket for "improper lighting" if I was apathetic enough to run them.
Read this in a "little old lady/granma" voice: Well I didn't know what was going on....the lights just started going crazy on back of his car...".
Like I said; it's your car. If you want to take the chance it's up to you. I'm just trying to save you some grief.
EDIT: I guess I'm just wasting my time, though....

[This message has been edited by Tha Driver (edited 08-10-2009).]

quote Originally posted by Tha Driver: Read this in a "little old lady/granma" voice: Well I didn't know what was going on....the lights just started going crazy on back of his car...".

So since the lights went crazy means it's ok to run into the rear??

By definition: flashing lights mean the vehicle is disabled (see your previous post) - so even if your brake lights are flashing, one could say that the vehicle is disabled and NOT moving.

Best to check local laws before installing them is all I am saying and trying to impose your morality on others is often not looked kindly upon.

That being said, there are so many driver's out there that are doing anything but paying attention to what is in front of them. There was an instance were my vehicle was disabled, 4 ways were on, hood up - I had to get out of the vehicle because I felt unsafe in it with people driving right up to the backend and slamming on thier brakes. Even after I set up some flares there were 2 idiots that drove over the flares and just about rear ended the car. The only thing that will stop these people is a 45 slug in the side of the head...

This might help with the legality question:

This is from Advanced Turn Signals a Mustang FAQ's Page

http://www.sequentialtailli...m/mustfaq.html#FAQ_7

"Sequential turn signal systems are legal in all 50 states and in Canada. I know of no state inspection that specifically states that sequential turn signals or sequential hazard flashers are illegal. Now, if used with a CLEAR rear lens, you will be out of compliance with nearly all state inspection reg's, and most state that you must have a RED rear reflector as part of the rear lens. So, that if the car is parked and no power is being delivered to the rear lights, an oncoming cars headlights must be able to see a red REFLECTION off the rear of the vehicle. All state inspection stations will have a copy of that states vehicle inspection code/rules and regulations. You will find no references to sequential taillight systems being illegal. Now a few states like Pennsylvania DO SPECIFY in their vehicle inspection code the min/max speed or rate by which the turn signals operate, like 60 FPM min, and 90 FPM max. (FPM = flashes per min).

Now, other 3rd. party systems, like front/rear wig-wags, traffic backers and strobes are illegal unless used on emergency vehicles. You must be a volunteer fireman, EMT or some other emergency services person to use specifically classified automotive emergency lighting systems. Sequential turn signals do not fall in this category. Now, during an inspection all rear turn signal, hazard and brake light bulbs must illuminate in order to pass, just like any other front/rear signaling bulb."

BTW, I set my module up on my workbench with 3 bulbs and a flasher.
When the power comes through the flasher the module flashes the bulbs in sequence. Then if a full 12 is applies to the flasher wire in the same way the brake line would, the sequencing stops immediately and all 3 bulbs stay lit.

BRIAN

quote Originally posted by Mickey_Moose: So since the lights went crazy means it's ok to run into the rear??

Dumbazz: it's NEVER "OK" to run into anybody. But I want to do what I can to KEEP other's FROM running into me!

quote Originally posted by brian99: This might help with the legality question: This is from Advanced Turn Signals a Mustang FAQ's Page http://www.sequentialtailli...m/mustfaq.html#FAQ_7 "Sequential turn signal systems are legal in all 50 states and in Canada. I know of no state inspection that specifically states that sequential turn signals or sequential hazard flashers are illegal. Now, if used with a CLEAR rear lens, you will be out of compliance with nearly all state inspection reg's, and most state that you must have a RED rear reflector as part of the rear lens. So, that if the car is parked and no power is being delivered to the rear lights, an oncoming cars headlights must be able to see a red REFLECTION off the rear of the vehicle. All state inspection stations will have a copy of that states vehicle inspection code/rules and regulations. You will find no references to sequential taillight systems being illegal. Now a few states like Pennsylvania DO SPECIFY in their vehicle inspection code the min/max speed or rate by which the turn signals operate, like 60 FPM min, and 90 FPM max. (FPM = flashes per min). Now, other 3rd. party systems, like front/rear wig-wags, traffic backers and strobes are illegal unless used on emergency vehicles. You must be a volunteer fireman, EMT or some other emergency services person to use specifically classified automotive emergency lighting systems. Sequential turn signals do not fall in this category. Now, during an inspection all rear turn signal, hazard and brake light bulbs must illuminate in order to pass, just like any other front/rear signaling bulb." BTW, I set my module up on my workbench with 3 bulbs and a flasher. When the power comes through the flasher the module flashes the bulbs in sequence. Then if a full 12 is applies to the flasher wire in the same way the brake line would, the sequencing stops immediately and all 3 bulbs stay lit. BRIAN

Sheesh... NOT ONE PERSON has even HINTED that sequential turn signals are illegal!
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Readin' don't not never done nuttin' for not nobody.
"I think you mean not nonebody."
Excuse me: not nonebody. Never not no one. Didn't about no reason not never. And, by God, they never not ain't gonna' will!

quote Originally posted by falcon_ca: Twilight Fenrir, My turn signals also fail to sequence, when the headlights/running-lights are on. Did you finally find a solution?

Yes, 20 watt, 8amp resistor from Radioshack spliced in parallel to the unit.

Twilight Fenrir'

I am finally ready to make the conversion.
Before I start I have one last question.
Where exactly is the best location to place the new socket?
Should it replace the corner 1 filament bulb or should it be placed somewhere else?

Thanks again for the help.

BRIAN

quote Originally posted by brian99: Twilight Fenrir' I am finally ready to make the conversion. Before I start I have one last question. Where exactly is the best location to place the new socket? Should it replace the corner 1 filament bulb or should it be placed somewhere else? Thanks again for the help. BRIAN

..... what? o.O

The new socket replaces the inner-most red taillight... And, you have to have a dual-filiment bulb to put into it. You really need a factory-style socket, the universal ones won't fit.
Also, I seem to have hit a problem... my turn signals are failing to function again with my headlights on.... It's... kind of random weather they work or not... just like my headlight motors... I've sunk alot of time and effort into these two things, and it's getting frustrating...

quote Originally posted by Tha Driver: Dumbazz: it's NEVER "OK" to run into anybody. But I want to do what I can to KEEP other's FROM running into me!

...ummm, who is the dumbazz, please reread YOUR post that I quoted in my reply...

quote Originally posted by Tha Driver: Read this in a "little old lady/granma" voice: Well I didn't know what was going on....the lights just started going crazy on back of his car...".

Translate: the lights started going crazy and she did know what was going on, so she drove into the back of the car...vs. being a cautious driver and playing it safe and stopping AND/OR by looking ahead and see if there was a problem that she should be aware of - TECHNICALLY speaking, she is at fault for "Following too closely". Around here, all rear end collisions are the fault of the rear/following car unless the insurance company wants to fight it.

IF you want to keep people from running into you - stay at home.

Now, I do agree that brake lights should not sequence, but that is just me...

quote Originally posted by Twilight Fenrir: The new socket replaces the inner-most red taillight... And, you have to have a dual-filiment bulb to put into it. You really need a factory-style socket, the universal ones won't fit. Also, I seem to have hit a problem... my turn signals are failing to function again with my headlights on.... It's... kind of random weather they work or not... just like my headlight motors... I've sunk alot of time and effort into these two things, and it's getting frustrating...

Try cleaning/reseating the C100 plug in the front comparment - you could just have a bad contact inside of the connector (may also be wet inside - try spraying it down with some contact cleaner to dry it out). You may also want to do this to the C500 connector as well for tail light issues.

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 08-11-2009).]

quote Originally posted by Mickey_Moose: Try cleaning/reseating the C100 plug in the front comparment - you could just have a bad contact inside of the connector (may also be wet inside - try spraying it down with some contact cleaner to dry it out). You may also want to do this to the C500 connector as well for tail light issues.

I was sort of wondering if that might be the problem with the headlight motors... I've meticulously rebuilt, greased, di-electric-greased, and it's still spotty at best...

The plugs in question, and in-fact, almost al the big plugs, have a thick black goo covering them.... should this be cleaned off, and replaced with Di-electric grease? Or, left as-is?

Twilight Fenrir,

quote
The new socket replaces the inner-most red taillight... And, you have to have a dual-filiment bulb to put into it.

Sorry for the confusion, but after I remove the inner tail light socket/bulb and replace it with a new one, where does that inner socket/bulb go. I will have to cut into the inner tail light housing, but I am wondering where exactly to make the cut.


Thanks again,

BRIAN

quote Originally posted by brian99: Twilight Fenrir, quote The new socket replaces the inner-most red taillight... And, you have to have a dual-filiment bulb to put into it. Sorry for the confusion, but after I remove the inner tail light socket/bulb and replace it with a new one, where does that inner socket/bulb go. I will have to cut into the inner tail light housing, but I am wondering where exactly to make the cut. Thanks again, BRIAN

Don't cut into it.... You NEED a factory-style socket, the universal one sticks out too far to allow the lens to fit back into place. Besides, cutting and drilling the lens is risky, and compromises its integrity. The factory-style one will just clip right in like the old one did.

Twilight Fenrir,

Sorry I am not making myself clear.t

Yes, I have the extra Fiero 2 filament sockets I will use to replace the inner socket/light as you said, but I will have 3 sockets/bulbs and 2 holes to place them in. Where will the 3rd socket/light go after I put the first 2 in place?

BRIAN

quote Originally posted by brian99: Twilight Fenrir, Sorry I am not making myself clear.t Yes, I have the extra Fiero 2 filament sockets I will use to replace the inner socket/light as you said, but I will have 3 sockets/bulbs and 2 holes to place them in. Where will the 3rd socket/light go after I put the first 2 in place? BRIAN

Do you have a Fastback, or a notchback? If you have a fastback, you can't do this mod, it doesn't have the 3rd light...

On the Notchback, the third socket replaces the innermost red-lensed socket... Just cut out the old, and splice in the new.

Twilight Fenrir,

That explains the confusion!!!!
I have a Fastback.
I know think I have seen Fastbacks with 3 sequencing lights working in the past.

They must have used the housing that holds the backup light by placing the additional socket/light above the existing socket/light that is there, since it is located to the inside of the inner existing turn signal socket/bulb.

A yellow bulb would have to be used or the upper area of he clear area of the display would have to be painted yellow.

Have you seen Fastbacks that have 3 sequencing lights or maybe they are just sequencing 2 lights!

BRIAN

quote Originally posted by Twilight Fenrir: I was sort of wondering if that might be the problem with the headlight motors... I've meticulously rebuilt, greased, di-electric-greased, and it's still spotty at best... The plugs in question, and in-fact, almost al the big plugs, have a thick black goo covering them.... should this be cleaned off, and replaced with Di-electric grease? Or, left as-is?

I usually just leave the goo on - just spray it down with some cleaner and plug it back in. Disconnecting it and reconnecting it a few times may be enough to clean the contact area as well. With the headlight motors, don't overlook the relays (if this is a 1st generation one) - the relays could be going bad, bad connection. Also check and make sure the ground is clean and tight (near the drivers headlight assembly).

quote Originally posted by brian99: Twilight Fenrir, That explains the confusion!!!! I have a Fastback. I know think I have seen Fastbacks with 3 sequencing lights working in the past. They must have used the housing that holds the backup light by placing the additional socket/light above the existing socket/light that is there, since it is located to the inside of the inner existing turn signal socket/bulb. A yellow bulb would have to be used or the upper area of he clear area of the display would have to be painted yellow. Have you seen Fastbacks that have 3 sequencing lights or maybe they are just sequencing 2 lights! BRIAN

I personally have never seem a fastback with 3 lamps sequencing. This also brings up another point, do you want the turns to sequence or the brake lights? You can't have both on a fastback unless you have 4 separate modules. On the fastback the turn and brake lights run off separate circuits.

Twilight Fenrir

Well, I guess that settles it.

If I ever get another Notchback I know how I can use the module!

Thanks for all you help with this matter.

BRIAN

quote Originally posted by Mickey_Moose: ...ummm, who is the dumbazz, please reread YOUR post that I quoted in my reply...

I think you should re-read it & show me where you THINK I said it was OK to run into somebody! Because apparently you do, but it was you that said "so it's OK?"...

quote Originally posted by Mickey_Moose: Translate: the lights started going crazy and she did know what was going on, so she drove into the back of the car...vs. being a cautious driver and playing it safe and stopping AND/OR by looking ahead and see if there was a problem that she should be aware of - TECHNICALLY speaking, she is at fault for "Following too closely". Around here, all rear end collisions are the fault of the rear/following car unless the insurance company wants to fight it. IF you want to keep people from running into you - stay at home. Now, I do agree that brake lights should not sequence, but that is just me...

I'm simply presenting a scenerio where it's LIKELY to get hit in the rear if your brake lights do not function as original.
Why is that so hard for you to understand???
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Remember 1/2 of the population is below average.

quote Originally posted by Tha Driver: I'm simply presenting a scenerio where it's LIKELY to get hit in the rear if your brake lights do not function as original. Why is that so hard for you to understand??? ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver" Remember 1/2 of the population is below average.

...and why is it so hard for you to understand that if you hit someone from the rear you will be cited for "driving without undue care and attention" despite the first cars working brake lights or not - you like quoting the law, well look that one up. I think you are hitting you head too hard against the wall.

It is up to the court and insurance companies to decide it was the fault of the person who modified or didn't have working brake lights - not some "random" guy's personal opinion on the internet.

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 08-12-2009).]

quote Originally posted by Mickey_Moose: ...and why is it so hard for you to understand that if you hit someone from the rear you will be cited for "driving without undue care and attention" despite the first cars working brake lights or not - you like quoting the law, well look that one up. I think you are hitting you head too hard against the wall. It is up to the court and insurance companies to decide it was the fault of the person who modified or didn't have working brake lights - not some "random" guy's personal opinion on the internet.

My God....
IT DOSEN'T MATTER WHAT THE LAW IS - YOUR CAR WILL STILL BE SMASHED UP!!! Do you not CARE if your car gets smashed up? Why don't you drive a freakin' HONDA, then!
And then of course you don't care if you have to fight it in court, either. I'd prefer to be in the right & have proper functioning brake lights, even (or especially) if I do get hit in the rear anyway.

Okay guys, chillax :P You've both made your points, and have your own opinions on the subject... The arguments are there for the readers to decide their own merits, and it will be up to them to decide. You're never going to convince one-another, just let it go.

hey a picture speaks a thousand words for some....i tired to install this set up last night ansd got nowhere and now have to tail lights. anyone have a step by step on a fiero installation? and whats needed? i have a two module system from webelectric.