With the rash of getrag failures in the last several months, I thought it would be a good time to post some information specific to the 92-94 FWD getrags... the tranny I have been running since May 2005 behind my SBC.
This tranny came behind the 3.1 V6 in the 92-94 Cavaliers, has the same ratios/final drive as the Fiero getrag, has the larger/stronger spider gears in the diff, uses a hydraulic throwout bearing (HTOB) and a reluctor style VSS.
This transmission is available rebuilt from ManTrans with the part # MT-32115. $750 Rebuilt MT-32115 transmission - does not include core charge or shipping $250 Core Charge $150 Approximate cost for shipping - my cost to ship from FL to KY.
If you puirchase a rebuilt transmission, more than likely it will not come with the Hydraulic Thowout Bearing (HTOB), the VSS, VSS pigtail or any of the shift brackets. Here is a breakdown of all the parts and listed prices for them. With careful searching, you might be able to score some of these parts used and save some $$$. $108.99 Throwout Bearing - Autozone part # 619005 ~$2.00 Brass hydraulic coupler – most hardware stores $58.99 VSS - Autozone part# SU1015 $17.32 VSS Pigtail – GM# 15547452 $75.00 SGI-5 Dakota Digital speedometer interface $75.00 FWD Shifter conversion brackets $65.00 FWD Shift Cable Bracket for the HTOB tranny – no slave mount $24 Getrag Select Cable Bracket – same as fiero getrag
$426.30 TOTAL - prices subject to change - Does not include the cost for the tranny.
Throwout Bearing - Autozone part # 619005 and costs $108.99:
Notice the input bearing does not have a throwout bearing sleeve. There are no bosses for the cross shaft and the case has been recessed to make room for the extra depth of the throwout bearing.
You can use the stock fiero clutch master. To connect, just cut the flare off the end of the fiero slave end (as close to the end as possible) and then reflare for an inverted flare fitting. Use a coupler to connect this inverted flare to the inverted flare on the hydraulic throwout bearing. The top line in the pic is the remote bleeder screw.
VSS - Autozone part# SU1015 and costs $58.99 : The VSS on this tranny is the reluctor type (as well as some 89+ getrags).
You can split the case and swap in the fiero VSS gear, but splitting the case on a zero mile rebuilt tranny is gutsy (plus not everyone wants to do this). Another option is to run a $75 Dakota Digital signal inverter. Cut the Yellow VSS wire in the center console before the 203. Connect the YELLOW from the VSS sensor to the INPUT. Connect the YELLOW going to the 203 to OUT 3. Connect the POWER (Red) Connect the GROUND (white) Switches 1, 2, 3 & 4 are all positioned down. Then drive the car at a known speed and use the UP/DOWN buttons to set the speedo to the actual road speed.
The only downside of the Dakota Digital method is that at idle and sub 20 MPH speeds, the speedo can sometimes bounce. Once you are over 20, the needle is very stable just like stock. This method will work on all applications where the VSS goes directly to the Fiero speedo (not through the ECM).
Shifter Brackets: Rodney sells all the brackets to run this tranny.
You can purchase these trannys rebuilt from ManTrans (and others) with or without the core. When I purchased my rebuilt one in early 2007, I kept my old trans. So if you want more pictures or other measurements I will do my best to get them.
Over the next day or so, I will add links to the Rodney brackets, the replacement throwout bearings, and the transmission rebuilders.
[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 02-01-2010).]
Well I hope the internals are stronger and hold up better. I bought a brand new Q4 transmission and changed all the internals over to my getrag case. I had an opportunity to get a bell housing like yours. I kind of wish I would've. I recently brought home a 3800sc and with the way the headers interfere with the slave cylinder, I think the hydraulic throw bearing would work better and be a cleaner install. Is that a factory sized throw out? I know they hold up good, my boy has a 96 cavalier with over 100k on it and we just now changed the clutch, pressure plate, and hydraulic throw out bearing. Nothing was wrong with the bearing itself just the clutch finally went.
Here is what the autozone replacement for the Hydraulic Slave looks like.
The black connector is a quick release for the hydraulic line in the original application. It attaches to the hydraulic throwout bearing with a simple invertted flare fitting, so you can take it off and throw it away.
Can you explain how you "check" the clearance on the throwout bearing? I heard you mention it in another thread. I don't want to buy a new one all the time at that price.
Can you explain how you "check" the clearance on the throwout bearing? I heard you mention it in another thread. I don't want to buy a new one all the time at that price.
Do you know the cars these trannys came in?
Can I use a spec 3 clutch and pressure plate with this setup??? Would I order the one for the year trans or still for the stock fiero?
From the pic above with an angle across the bellhousing surface, the face of the throwout bearing is 2 3/8" deep inside the tranny. You need to verify that the pressure plate fingers have about 1/8" to 3/16" clearance to the thowout bearing (as the clutch wears, the fingers will move towards the tranny - so you need room to allow for clutch wear), so they would need to protrude from the engine bellhousing flange by 2 3/16 to 2 1/4". Use a ruler across the pressure plate and measure the distance from the engine bellhousing surface. On Archie SBC cars, a spacer will be needed on the backside of the throwout bearing to close this gap to the 3/16-1/8" clearance - if not you will over extend the throwout bearing, it will come apart and you will be buying another - I learned the hard way!
These trannys were FWD GM with the 3.1 V6 - Cavalier, Beretta, Corsica, etc (there are also Quad 4 versions with different bellhousings). Not all have the hydraulic throwout bearings, some still have the internal clutch lever like the 89-91 tranys. There are also 95+ versions of the Isuzu transmission that are very similar with the hydraulic throwout bearing as well as the later model getrags.
Yes, a Fiero spec 2+, 3 and 3+ have all been used with this setup. If you order a clutch, order the Fiero V6 one or it will be $100+ more expensive due to spec supplying the hydraulic throwout bearing which you might already have.
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10:57 AM
darkhorizon Member
Posts: 12279 From: Flint Michigan Registered: Jan 2006
One great thing about this setup other than the stronger Diff, is the fact you can run alot more exhaust stuff (turbos, headers, ect) around the trans area. Would make a great option for those running headers on a 3800.
Is this guy just out of the know?? I asked if this tranny would fit a Fiero, he said..........
No it is not a direct fit. The bell housing is different. We did just do one for another customer and he used his bell on our unit and said it worked great. The only other mod was he had to cut ½” off the reverse idler shaft on the bell side.
The trans in the pic is the Quad 4 version with a different bellhousing bolt pattern. The Quad 4 transmissions also had the 3.94 final drive and slightly different ratios.
That is an awesome price for a brand new getrag though!
[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 05-05-2008).]
I bought one of these on Ebay. Even if you have to swap out parts, you can't beet the price for new components. I am combining my Fiero trans with this to have a semi-new trans with better ratios.
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02:24 PM
Erik Member
Posts: 5625 From: Des Moines, Iowa Registered: Jul 2002
I bought one of these on Ebay. Even if you have to swap out parts, you can't beet the price for new components. I am combining my Fiero trans with this to have a semi-new trans with better ratios.
Maybe somebody can answer me this here. Well at least I hope so … I am in the process of rebuilding my trans at the moment. Now rumor has it that the carrier assembly of a 3.1 92 -94 Getrag ( Bigger and better spider gears, I was told they have) will also fit into a earlier vintage Getrag. (88 Beretta) Does anybody here have some "First Hand Knowledge" of this?
Now my understanding was, it was n the 3.1 engines in 92-94 I should be after for this. Correct? Or is the Quad 4 the exemption to this rule? Would this Quad 4 ( The one on E-Bay right now) have the same Carrier Assembly as the one out of a 3.1, I am after? How about the synchros? They are the same ?
Originally posted by Tina: Maybe somebody can answer me this here. ........Now rumor has it that the carrier assembly of a 3.1 92 -94 Getrag ( Bigger and better spider gears, I was told they have) will also fit into a earlier vintage Getrag. (88 Beretta) Does anybody here have some "First Hand Knowledge" of this? ............... Thanks guys Tina
Although I can't answer your question, Jeff Ianitello at Engineered Performance, (1-404-394-5776) might be able to. He knows a lot about these transaxles. He also sells a fricton disk type Limited Slip Differential that you might find interesting. His web site is www.engineered.net.
I hope this proves helpful to you.
~Bob
------------------ "Its nice to be important. Its more important to be nice."
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09:00 PM
ambfiero Member
Posts: 384 From: In here its like living in goonville Registered: Jan 2003
Maybe somebody can answer me this here. Well at least I hope so … I am in the process of rebuilding my trans at the moment. Now rumor has it that the carrier assembly of a 3.1 92 -94 Getrag ( Bigger and better spider gears, I was told they have) will also fit into a earlier vintage Getrag. (88 Beretta) Does anybody here have some "First Hand Knowledge" of this?
Now my understanding was, it was n the 3.1 engines in 92-94 I should be after for this. Correct? Or is the Quad 4 the exemption to this rule? Would this Quad 4 ( The one on E-Bay right now) have the same Carrier Assembly as the one out of a 3.1, I am after? How about the synchros? They are the same ?
I do not think it has been confirmed exactly when the spider gears were changed, but the example in the link above shows the Q4 diff (91) with the upgraded spider gears and the 92-94 V6 version have them as well. The Q4 trannys came with the 3.94 final drive, so unless you have a high RPM engine, I would stick with the V6 versions.
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08:22 AM
May 9th, 2008
Tina Member
Posts: 2858 From: At an elevation of 8564 feet. Registered: Nov 2000
Here is a thread with some pics of the larger spider gears side by side with the fiero getrag:.
Thanks for finding the thread and posting it. Helped a lot.
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru: The Q4 trannys came with the 3.94 final drive, so unless you have a high RPM engine, I would stick with the V6 versions.
Not too worry ... in the proccess of rebuilding my trans at the moment. Really looking for just parts. Stronger spiders in particular. So is the guy that seen my old ones. Back in the eighties we worked for GM, familiar rebuilding both the 282 and 284, but was not aware that stronger ones were available in later years.
Also a + to you FieroBobo, great lead. The Guy really does know his stuff.
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11:42 PM
PFF
System Bot
Aug 23rd, 2009
fieroguru Member
Posts: 12127 From: Champaign, IL Registered: Aug 2003
Has anybody fitted this Hydrolic TOB on the stock Fiero 282 Getrag? I assume a spacer and some sort of hold-down will have to be made, but I'm just curious if it has been done before.
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03:17 PM
fieroguru Member
Posts: 12127 From: Champaign, IL Registered: Aug 2003
Has anybody fitted this Hydrolic TOB on the stock Fiero 282 Getrag? I assume a spacer and some sort of hold-down will have to be made, but I'm just curious if it has been done before.
Not that I am aware of. I do not have a fiero getrag to compare it to, but I believe the case is custom machined to provide the clearance for the base of the HTOB to clear the input bearing boss.
The other thing is the hole for the hydraulic lines for the HTOB does not exist on the Fiero getrag.
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05:27 PM
darkhorizon Member
Posts: 12279 From: Flint Michigan Registered: Jan 2006
Has anybody fitted this Hydrolic TOB on the stock Fiero 282 Getrag? I assume a spacer and some sort of hold-down will have to be made, but I'm just curious if it has been done before.
It would require some work, some people have looked into it briefly that may chime in.
The biggest issues are going to be case mods, there is very little required other than a flat surface, nothing "holds it in" per say.
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06:03 PM
Aug 24th, 2009
Will Member
Posts: 14219 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
Originally posted by fieroguru: Not that I am aware of. I do not have a fiero getrag to compare it to, but I believe the case is custom machined to provide the clearance for the base of the HTOB to clear the input bearing boss.
The other thing is the hole for the hydraulic lines for the HTOB does not exist on the Fiero getrag.
I'm think the actual input bearing boss is the same. The mechanical throw out input bearing could be removed with a shaft collar and a slide hammer without splitting the case. The lines would have to be reworked to go out the hole for the throw out shaft. and an anti-rotation pin would have to be added someplace. The hole that the lines go out on a HTOB transmission is actually the same hole that the slave pushrod goes in through on the 2nd gen internal throw out linkage transmissions.
quote
Originally posted by Tina: Not too worry ... in the proccess of rebuilding my trans at the moment. Really looking for just parts. Stronger spiders in particular. So is the guy that seen my old ones. Back in the eighties we worked for GM, familiar rebuilding both the 282 and 284, but was not aware that stronger ones were available in later years.
What happened to your cryo-treated gearbox?
[This message has been edited by Will (edited 08-24-2009).]
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12:23 AM
Oreif Member
Posts: 16460 From: Schaumburg, IL Registered: Jan 2000
The post was from last year when she did the cryo treating. She blew up the last Isuzu back in April of 08 then switched over to the cryo-treated getrag. //www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/090889.html
[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 08-24-2009).]
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06:43 AM
Will Member
Posts: 14219 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
I'll be swapping in one of these getrags soon, in place of the TH125. Regarding the speedometer: Although I may desire to go to a cluster that matches the engine (97 3.4 DOHC), I may decide to use the stock cluster for now. Therefore, since I'll be opening the getrag I have to rebuild it, does anyone know the part numbers for the VSS gear and stuff of the Fiero? I'd like to avoid the Dakota thing.
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02:23 PM
fieroguru Member
Posts: 12127 From: Champaign, IL Registered: Aug 2003
I'll be swapping in one of these getrags soon, in place of the TH125. Regarding the speedometer: Although I may desire to go to a cluster that matches the engine (97 3.4 DOHC), I may decide to use the stock cluster for now. Therefore, since I'll be opening the getrag I have to rebuild it, does anyone know the part numbers for the VSS gear and stuff of the Fiero? I'd like to avoid the Dakota thing.
If you are using the stock ECM for the DOHC, you should be able to wire this FWD VSS directly to the ECM and then use the ECM to drive the fiero speedo and bypass the need for the fiero style VSS.
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07:49 PM
PFF
System Bot
Fierobsessed Member
Posts: 4782 From: Las Vegas, NV Registered: Dec 2001
Yep, I second what was said above. The Fiero Type VSS is inconpatible with the 3.4 DOHC's ECM's. They need the toothed wheel type to function correctly. The ECM then puts out the correct signal that drives the Fiero's Speedometer. It just needs a very simple buffer circuit. The purple and yellow wires that go to the C203 connector run to the speedometer directly. The VSS itself connects directly to the ECM. The ECM has a green wire coming from it that goes to this circuit.
[This message has been edited by Fierobsessed (edited 02-01-2010).]
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11:19 PM
Feb 2nd, 2010
dsnover Member
Posts: 1668 From: Cherryville, PA USA Registered: Apr 2006
Excellent. I wasn't sure what ECM I would use...was debating going MegaSquirt, or OBDII from a 98 model year car. As of now, I have a Getrag from a 92 Cavalier V6, and a 3.4 DOHC from a 97 Grand Prix, but no complete harness (was cut). I've got, or have access to, the tools to rebuild the Getrag, and the 3.4 will get a 'freshening'. The 88 yellow GT I have is currently an automatic, but I have the manual shifter, cables, and pedals for the conversion. Yes, I know, a pain, but I wanted a yellow 88 GT with a manual trans, and just couldn't find one that I could afford. In fact, the one that I have was originally going to be a parts car/suspension donor for my 87, but it turned out that the 88 was from Arizona, and has next to no rust...something even harder to find in the Northeast parts of the country.
My next debate is what cluster to use. When the weather warms up a bit, I'll probably look for a cluster from a VIN X Grand Prix or Monte, of the 96-97 model year, and try to make a dash like the 89 Fiero prototype. We'll see. Long term projects, when you have kids, are even longer....
+ to those answers!
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09:27 AM
Sep 12th, 2010
Isolde Member
Posts: 2504 From: North Logan, Utah, USA Registered: May 2008
Not that I am aware of. I do not have a fiero getrag to compare it to, but I believe the case is custom machined to provide the clearance for the base of the HTOB to clear the input bearing boss.
The other thing is the hole for the hydraulic lines for the HTOB does not exist on the Fiero getrag.
i wonder if it could be adapted to the 4 speed muncie as well...sure would be nice..
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02:13 PM
Raydar Member
Posts: 40712 From: Carrollton GA. Out in the... country. Registered: Oct 1999
Originally posted by fieroguru: $17.32 VSS Pigtail – GM# 15547452
Thanks. I hadn't been able to find the right connector in the CarQuest catalog to mate with the magnetic VSS. Do you have the part number for the bare connector?
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03:26 PM
87_special Member
Posts: 266 From: San Diego, CA Registered: Oct 2006
Thanks. I hadn't been able to find the right connector in the CarQuest catalog to mate with the magnetic VSS. Do you have the part number for the bare connector?
The gm part # is in the picture above.
I recently did a 5speed swap in my 87SE. I used the trans from a 92 Cavalier Z24. It is still equipped with the mechanical TOB and required the slave adapter from Rodney. I think the 92s got the beefier gears and differential but kept the mechanical TOB.
j/k 
