I want to remove the VIN tag from a Fiero I legally own without removing the windshield.

Does anyone know if the bottom of the two rivets holding the VIN tag down can be cut or ground off with a dremel tool or hand held grinder if I remove the dash board?

Should I be the one to say that swapping VIN's on frames is illegal? My guess is you already guessed that. Sorry though, I don't know the answer to your question. But now at least no one else needs to say that. I do wonder if the VIN is stamped anywhere else on the body.

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 03-17-2010).]

Vin is in two places on dash. Obvious one on top and another one on a lower frame member about in the middle, I think.

Jonathan

quote Originally posted by phonedawgz: Should I be the one to say that swapping VIN's on frames is illegal? My guess is you already guessed that. Sorry though, I don't know the answer to your question. But now at least no one else needs to say that. I do wonder if the VIN is stamped anywhere else on the body.

I was hoping to avoid these kinds of posts, which is why I put in 'I legally own the car'

to stay on track with mechanical input I will say that it is NOT against the law to swap tags if you own the vehicle. That is how restoration shops deal with rare and classic cars that are rusted hulks which need new chassis.

I am not looking for debates on legalities or moralities of swapping tags, just an answer to my question.

Can I reach the bottom of the rivets on the VIN tag if I remove the dash?

[This message has been edited by FieroMonkey (edited 03-17-2010).]

If it were me, I'd cut those sections of frame out with a maximum ammout of space on each side. Then weld them into position on the other car (If I were to do something so illegal) (which I wouldn't even though the DMV makes it almost impossible to get a title for a parts car, etc).

Then you can mold them in and the rivets will never be touched. I would guess that most feds looking for that sort of thing won't look 10 inches out to see if there are any welds or paint work.

Jonathan

I have a bare chassis in the driveway at home, so I will take a pic of what it looks like and see if there is a way to access the bottom of the vin tag when I get home this afternoon.

The rivots holding the vin tag in place are not perfectly round and have GM stamped in them... all to make it obvious that the rivots were tampered with. I have come across parts cars in the past that removed the metal holding the vin tag was removed and welded back into place so the vin tag and its rivots were left stock.

The other location for the VIN is on the structural cross-car member under the driver's side front speaker.

Thank you fieroguru for the time and pics!

I will look for that one when I have the dash off as well Bloozberry, thanks.

As Blooze said, it's directly under the speaker opening. With the speaker removed it is easily visible through the windshield.

I removed a vin on my chevy truck when it was wrecked in this way (the cab was replaced so i used the same vin and title from the original truck instead of registering as another cab). i ground the rivets off the bottom just as you said, and used a dab of epoxy and put on the new vin. you cant tell the difference at all, looks factory. I would think you could do the same to the fiero as long as you can get to the bottom of the rivets, which it appears you can from fierogurus picture. good luck!

I will remove the speaker first and see what I can spot and access. I will probably have to remove it entirely for ease of removal i think though.

That is exactly what I had in mind mtjd25, I am encouraged that it will work as yours seems to have. thanks

in a repair situation it is perfectly fine to move the vin to a diffrent chassi/cab/unibody and legal, in the body shop i worked at we sawed cars in half many times and moved the vin within the new structure also with the corvette restorations i do for work now quite often u have to replace the birdcage in alot of the c2 and c3 vettes w a doner one from bone yard. if u call corvette connection corvetteconnection dot net they can prob get u factory rivits to put your vin tag back in the owner had givin me sum awile back when i purchaced a rebuilder 79 vette, he is in butler wisconsin 262 781 2166 no guarentee he still has some but its worth a shot

Just so you know the body VIN number is in at least a dozen other spots...some hidden. If the police or DMV ever check it (ie/ applying for a new title after an accident to replace a salvage one) your screwed. They will not issue a new title and impound the vehicle. Dont ask how I know this. At least in Ohio. They also check all the numbers if say your car is stolen and they recover it. If numbers dont match, they will not return it.

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: Just so you know the body VIN number is in at least a dozen other spots...some hidden. If the police or DMV ever check it (ie/ applying for a new title after an accident to replace a salvage one) your screwed. They will not issue a new title and impound the vehicle. Dont ask how I know this. At least in Ohio. They also check all the numbers if say your car is stolen and they recover it. If numbers dont match, they will not return it.

Good information to know. I wont ask how you know that, but will assume the worst, ouch.

I happen to legally own both of the vehicles undergoing the transformation, so a stolen vehicle report is not possible unless I have a split personality Also, as far as I know the 84 Fiero only has 3 VIN stamps on the chassis; one in front of the head light, one at the base of the windshield, and one under the dash, and 1 on the motor. I have no idea how they could possibly check the one under the dash, or on the motor. The sticker on the door and RPO sticker naturally will be easy to see of course.

jetsnvettes2000, thanks for the pics and info. I may contact them if the rivits I cut are not salvagable

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I cant specifly say where there all at on a Fiero, but several cars I had inspected with salvage titles had them everywhere....cops wouldnt even say where. Chassis rails, inside bumper reinforcements, floor panels, core support... so many possible places. On a Volvo I fixed with used parts, I had to have reciepts WITH serial numbers on those parts from the yard I got them at. Replacement aftermarket parts have to have the yellow sticker both on the part and on my bills. (aftermarket buyers know what I mean...they come with a 2 piece sticker that you put half on the reciept and half on the vehicle). I did a Suburban and replaced a door with an aftermarket one. It had no sticker and they wouldnt issue a title till I either come up with that sticker that matched numbers or bought another door with one.

Can anyone verify the VIN number on the engine in a Fiero?

J.

quote Originally posted by jaskispyder: Can anyone verify the VIN number on the engine in a Fiero? J.

All I know is the location which is on the block underneath the starter. Basically you have to remove the starter to read it. But honestly there is no point since after 20+ years it is likely the motor in most Fieros has been replaced, or swapped for an upgrade

[This message has been edited by FieroMonkey (edited 03-18-2010).]

quote Originally posted by jaskispyder: Can anyone verify the VIN number on the engine in a Fiero? J.

Last few of the VIN are stamped on the transmission too.

Kevin

[This message has been edited by Lambo nut (edited 03-18-2010).]

As long as your paperwork is legit and at a quick glance the vin is correct, 999.99% are not going to look harder. Most officials aren't going to go above and beyond looking for "hidden" vin number on a Fiero unless they are pushed to the breaking point, even then I seriously doubt it. the risk of legal action for damages outweigh the possibility of finding some stolen parts for a car not worth much to begin with. I would also doubt that many “officials” even know where these supposed hidden vin tags are (if they do exist) on a Fiero. I mean come on, it’s a car worth a few thousand dollars, it’s not a 6 figure Lambo or something. When I stripped down my 87 I found the one on the dash and the one under it but that was it. Lots of parts had the vin on them but they were stickers. I do remember seeing numbers stamped into the body or roof but they were not crisp and basically illegible so not sure what they were. If they were the vin, they were useless. Plus, who’s going to remove your roof section looking for a vin??? Oh here it is and yup, it matches so it is your car, sorry about the damage! I would grind them from behind and glue them back on or just take regular rivits and clone them into new "GM" ones. Maybe i'll try that, would it be wrong to make and sell them???

ya roger here in wisconsin they are not so picky cause they seem to relize over a cars life panels get replaced rust forms and crashes happen parts are avalible for all parts of cars and get fixed in wrecks plus the healthy rebuilder market here it is concivible to the dot here that an entire substructure replacment would happen on a rare car before it was junked and well aftermarket parts just dont have vin numbers not even gm ones do
i could see it a problem if u were building say a gto judge clone using a total diffrent car and rebadging it that would be fraud totally but in a repair situation at least here its fine to use structures from other cars to make one whole heck we even have hobbiest registration were u can totally modify a car and build one from many cars and not have to return it to stock say a rat rod and they will register it w the vin num from the cab or even issue a state vin num if its a one of a kind type situation but their is huge limitations to the hobbiest plate/registration the car basically is ment for show and not everyday driving so all in all my guess wisconsin dosent press the issue so much based on the ol grandfathers axe clause one day the handle will break and one day the head may crack both replaced but still ol grand dads axe

No prob, just saying how it is here since Ive had several done. You have to make an appointment and It takes a few hours for the inspection on a lift, so its not just a quickie looksee. The Volvo was 15-20 years old and the Suburban was at least 10. And yes on the Suburban, they did pull the door panel because they left it off. On checking replacement parts, the salvage papers tell where and to the extent the damage was. Newer cars at least under 10 years old do have VIN number stickers on all major body parts. Usually its on an inner edge. (decal about 1/2"X2") and there non removable. If I paint on a used part, I make sure to mask them off.

ya must b somthin i just miss then most of my parts basically come from corvette central or zips, places like that usually they have a inventory sticker as i am shure u have seen but i dont recall any of them really having the numbers other than an L or a R stamped on many of them like bumper brackets stuff like that i just orderd a complete 68 front end for the one i am currently building and it also didnt have any numbers on it at all, not that u would see them ill post pic so u can understand why



see their is no way u could ever pull numbers off this the birdcage minus the windshield and post behind doors is compleatly new metal the frame of the car is a custom built one also and never had numbers on it
this i know we built it in house. the engine a 427 is prob the only thing left in car that is original besides the doors and rear half but even the engine itself of its original parts the block and intake are the only things original as it was rebuilt too

id hate living were u r at it would make it impossible for me to do the work i do to these cars at work, tryin to follow those rules most of my rare parts are cash deals at swap meets
or cause of the owner of these cars nature, they are one off parts that well just dont and will never have any identifying numbers but then again these cars are trailer queens and sit in his collection gettin dusty 99 percent of the time

[This message has been edited by jetsnvettes2000 (edited 03-18-2010).]