Ok so i relocated my battery to the front and i used 4 gauge welding cable. I can get the car to start using a booster. But once the car is warm, it won't start on its own. I'm starting to think that 4 gauge is to small, especially for such a long run. but not sure. I got one ground on the chassis in front and one running back to the engine block. And the power is hooked up directly to the starter.
Also the alternator, starter and battery are brand new.
And this is a 3.4dohc

That cable should be fine. Maybe you have a bad starter thats drawing too many amps. On my 454 race boat, I had the same problem and just ran 2 wires side by side. Make sure you have a good clean chassis ground too.

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 03-14-2010).]

yea starter is what i thought to, so i replaced it, and still got the same results. It actually cranks and starts fine cold. Its when its been running and the engine is warm is when the starter doesn't want to crank or cranks weakly. All the grounds were cleaned down to bare metal are connected securely.

I relocated the battery to the trunk on my old Saturn, using the chassis as one conductor, and a 4-gauge wire for the other.

The starter cranked the engine over more slowly. It was only really noticeable during winter though.

I'd suggest thicker wire, maybe 0 gauge.

Actually, if it's a hot start issue, maybe it's something with the starter, heat-related...

[This message has been edited by pmbrunelle (edited 03-14-2010).]

I have heard of "heat soaking" a starter. It's where the starter simply gets too hot after running the engine for a while and won't crank. Maybe get a heat shield for it or get one of those insulating wraps for it?

If you replaced the starter, go ahead like I said and just run 2 cables side by side. Guarantee it will work fine. If you want you can cover them both with one loom.

FWIW Home Depot sells automotive grade (gas and oil resistant) 2 gauge wire for less than a buck a foot. They also have the terminals for it for a couple bucks apiece. worked great for me.

ok bump for update
I wrapped the starter with some thermo tec starter wrap, and it did nothing.
i ran a second 4 gauge welding cable to the starter and i could tell that the starter actually cranks better. But still the car left me stranded today, so now i'm thinking i got a bad starter. Its only when the engine is warm, that the problem appears.

Unless there is any other thought on this?????

Thanks

Ryan Schuette

I just had 4 gauge wire run for a front mount on my car last weekend and so far I have not had any starting issues, other than previously existing issues. The real test will be this summer with the heat... I don't currently notice any difference in craking time or speed with the wiring setup the way it is now.

What did you do for a ground wire?

I have the 4ga wire for ground connected from the battery terminal to the grounding point right above the starter solenoid and the positive 4ga runs straight from the battery terminal to the starter with a 4ga jumper up to the original junction block from the starter... if you only ground at the front of the car... you are more than likely going to have problems.

[This message has been edited by carbon (edited 03-27-2010).]

When I did my first battery location up front on my 87 GT, It was fine for a month or so and then It wouldn't start (as if the battery was dying). I found that a single ground was not good enough in a fiero because of all the epoxy coated paint on the space frame. What had happened was the bolt threads were not contacting completely the spaceframe because of the paint. I ended up taking a tap and cleaning out the threads on the chassis locations where I used bolts for grounds. Then I installed stainless steel bolts for all my ground bolts. I increased the amount of grounds to three wires to the chassis at various locations and had one dedicated ground wire from the battery all the way back to the block. I added more grounds from the block to the engine bay.

That cured my problem. Currently on my 88GT, I'm using 1/2 inch welding cable for the positive side and a dedicated 4-6 gauge ground wire to the block near the starter. That seems to keep it working good. I'd be looking to add ground points to make sure your getting enough grounding.

I got the battery grounded up front and i also ran a 4 gauge ground back to the block. The only thing i'm thinking is if the ground wire is to close to the exhaust manifold causing the hot start problems. Also the block is grounded to the chassis in two different spots.

thanks for all the input

Ryan

Check starter and solenoid is good. Starter, and especially solenoid, can be "bad" long before it dead.

Hot starter problem? Try a starter heat shield too. Thins metal keep IR heat from exhaust off of the starter and solenoid.

Option 2...
Use a gear head starter. Summit, jeggs, etc, carries them. Needs less power and more torque.

------------------
Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)

The Ogre's Fiero Cave (It's also at the top of every forum page...)

GROUND,,your main ground should be at the engine,,it should be sanded to bright metal,and the nut & washers should be bright metal.
If your battery is mounted in the front,A direct wire is best,, you can connect to the frame in front ,then from the frame in rear to the engine,, all these connections are either sanded bright or new or like new bolts ,nuts washers ..I love bright nuts!!.....Make sure the bolts for the starter are also bright and clean.. the part where the bolt contacts the starter is clean,, the threads in the engine are clean...
,,The small expense is worth it ,,don,t be the guy who spends a bride price for your engine/tranny,, but doesn't give a nut!!
You do not need an octopus ground net work ,but make sure your grounds are better than they were from the factory.
I have seen many cars with good starting cold,, but if the engine died when hot ,,"slow turn over" ,,Improving the Main ground connection almost allways made a great improvement ..
With Heat soak,, the starter needs more juice

quote Originally posted by carbon: What did you do for a ground wire? I have the 4ga wire for ground connected from the battery terminal to the grounding point right above the starter solenoid and the positive 4ga runs straight from the battery terminal to the starter with a 4ga jumper up to the original junction block from the starter... if you only ground at the front of the car... you are more than likely going to have problems.

The cross-sectional area of the car chassis is much larger than that of 4-gauge wire. The chassis will have a MUCH lower resistance (even though it's not copper), so adding an extra grounding wire is redundant.

It would be imperative to properly ground the starter to the chassis in a setup like this.

ok well i believe i got it working now. Not exactly sure what fixed it, but here is what i did
I enlarged one of my grounds from 6 gauge to 4 gauge also moved it farther away from the exhaust manifold.
I jimmy rigged a heat shield around the starter, which is also protecting all the wiring going into the starter.
Replaced the starter with a different reman. one. (lifetime warranty)
And I also moved the ground from the battery to the block farther away from the exhaust manifolds.

So in conclusion not sure what exactly fixed it, but it didn't cost me anything but my own time. So I'm happy

Thanks for all the input

Ryan