I have a Lebaron Swap and so far no one has completely got the air out of the system. The latest I was told was to upgrade my Proportioning Valve. So my question is has anyone use the WCF Proportioning Valve and what is the brand they use? I would rather go to the local auto parts store than pay what they are asking.

After my mechanic put on the stainless lines and bled the brakes with one person pumping the brakes and another bleeding the result wasn't that bad......better than stock...but still I had to press the pedal half way before the calipers really grabbed. Then .... my dumb azz went to goodyear to get an alignment and had them bleed just the rears, thinking that would be the finishing touch and now the brakes barely work @ all. They are very spongy and you hear air when you pump the brakes then they go all the way to the floor and lock up the fronts. They even removed the rear calipers turned the caliper over so the bleeder valve was on top and then bled them.

This is starting to tic me off......sory for the rant but I needed to vent...and need any advice. Should I get a Proportioning Valve or not?

Did you change your master cylinder or are you running the stock fiero one? Using the learon rotor swap with the camaro/caddy calipers requires a larger piston master cylinder to function properly. Search the brake threads and you'll find out which master you need. If you do have the proper master was it a rebuild? You could have a bad master

------------------
88blackchopv8

[This message has been edited by av8fiero (edited 02-04-2010).]

I have done the Walt Zettners 11.26 Seville/Camaro/LeBaron brake upgrade and cannot get a firm brake pedal either. My pedal goes almost to the floor before the car starts to stop and then I have good brakes. No pulling to either side in a panic stop. Is there anyone out there that has been successful with this conversion for todate I haven't found one on this web site; only posts with the same complaint and no clear solutions.
Here is what I have done: Changed all brake cables, all the parts listed in the conversion, the power booster, s/s brakes lines and braded hoses. I originally used a rebuilt 94 full size Blazer M/C and when it wouldn't bleed properly, I took the car to my local GM dealer and they said use a S-10 M/C which I had them install and $300 later they gave up. I have since purchased another NEW, this time, 94 Blazer M/C and bench bled the hell out of it before I installed it and still have the original problem. I've gone to me local salvage yard and pulled THREE Proportioning Valves; took them apart and cleaned them. One is off an 88 which has a smaller relief spring but otherwise is close to the 85-87 valves. After trying two of them, I still the same problem. Four quarts of brake fluid, speed bleaders, and two vacuum pumps later, still no resolution. AND YES, I've made sure the slider valve notch is in the center of the proportioning valve which is used to activate the brake failure light. I have used my air-compresser to make sure there isn't any clogged lines leading to the calipers. I replaced the brakes lines with S/S ones from the Fiero Store and that wasn't fun doing it while laying on a cold garage floor when it was only 20 degrees in the garage and the car on jack stands.
When it gets to above 20 degrees again, I plan to use the last proporting valve assembly, make sure the slider valve is in the right place, bench bleed the master cylinder once again, and then gravity bleed each brake line by replacing the bleeder screws with the original ones (you can't do it with speed bleeders), starting with the driver's side rear first. If this doesn't work, I don't what else to do. I've already gone way past $2000 for this fiaso. I'm open to any NEW, I repeat, NEW ideas.

I have a similar problem with my lebaron swap. Although my pedal doesn't go to the floor, there is a little more pedal travel than I would prefer before the brakes grab.

I notice it much more when braking from a high speed. It's almost as if I have to pump them once really quick and then I have a firmer pedal (from high speeds).

If someone has had this problem and has the fix, please post!

(I have also had a bigger master cylinder installed and brakes bled by a gm master tech)

------------------

Check out my build!
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000100.html

quote Originally posted by rmcmsw: I have done the Walt Zettners 11.26 Seville/Camaro/LeBaron brake upgrade and cannot get a firm brake pedal either. My pedal goes almost to the floor before the car starts to stop and then I have good brakes. No pulling to either side in a panic stop. Is there anyone out there that has been successful with this conversion for todate I haven't found one on this web site; only posts with the same complaint and no clear solutions. Here is what I have done: Changed all brake cables, all the parts listed in the conversion, the power booster, s/s brakes lines and braded hoses. I originally used a rebuilt 94 full size Blazer M/C and when it wouldn't bleed properly, I took the car to my local GM dealer and they said use a S-10 M/C which I had them install and $300 later they gave up. I have since purchased another NEW, this time, 94 Blazer M/C and bench bled the hell out of it before I installed it and still have the original problem. I've gone to me local salvage yard and pulled THREE Proportioning Valves; took them apart and cleaned them. One is off an 88 which has a smaller relief spring but otherwise is close to the 85-87 valves. After trying two of them, I still the same problem. Four quarts of brake fluid, speed bleaders, and two vacuum pumps later, still no resolution. AND YES, I've made sure the slider valve notch is in the center of the proportioning valve which is used to activate the brake failure light. I have used my air-compresser to make sure there isn't any clogged lines leading to the calipers. I replaced the brakes lines with S/S ones from the Fiero Store and that wasn't fun doing it while laying on a cold garage floor when it was only 20 degrees in the garage and the car on jack stands. When it gets to above 20 degrees again, I plan to use the last proporting valve assembly, make sure the slider valve is in the right place, bench bleed the master cylinder once again, and then gravity bleed each brake line by replacing the bleeder screws with the original ones (you can't do it with speed bleeders), starting with the driver's side rear first. If this doesn't work, I don't what else to do. I've already gone way past $2000 for this fiaso. I'm open to any NEW, I repeat, NEW ideas.

Did you bleed the brakes with the car on? Mine work like a chanp with the car off before goodyear got ahold of them now they don't work @ all, with the car on or off. Also did you ever use your old fiero master cylinder?

Why does the Fiero Store "recommend installing your factory reservoir on the new big bore cylinder." ! ! ! !

Have you used a C-clamp to push the caliper pistons back onto its bore? It seems like it would reverse bleed the system, pushing air and fluid to the master cylinder since we cant get all of it out of the upside down bleeders.

[This message has been edited by nosrac (edited 02-04-2010).]

quote Originally posted by nosrac: Did you bleed the brakes with the car on? Mine work like a chanp with the car off before goodyear got ahold of them now they don't work @ all, with the car on or off. Also did you ever use your old fiero master cylinder? Why does the Fiero Store "recommend installing your factory reservoir on the new big bore cylinder." ! ! ! ! Have you used a C-clamp to push the caliper pistons back onto its bore? It seems like it would reverse bleed the system, pushing air and fluid to the master cylinder since we cant get all of it out of the upside down bleeders.

The Blazer MC has a taller fluid reservoir than the Fiero, and supposedly, if you use it in the Fiero, then there will be an interference between the reservoir and the sunroof glass if you attempt to store it in the front trunk.

I tried pumping brake fluid into the bleeders hoping to push the bubbles up and out of the master. Didn't work.

I ended up vacuum bleeding, with the calipers unmounted from the knuckles, bleeders right side up.
Worked like a charm.

I also had the rear of the car jacked up while doing this. From Ogre's Cave:
http://home.comcast.net/~fierocave/brakes3.htm

It was a PITA for me since all four of my calipers have upside down bleeders...

When you have things like upside down bleeders on your car, you're going to have to service it yourself. "Standard service procedures" no longer apply, and you can't expect a garage to deal with the idiosyncrasies of your modified Fiero.

[This message has been edited by pmbrunelle (edited 02-05-2010).]

If you have upside down bleeders, you should have Speed Bleeder bleed valves on your calipers. I have the Grand Am - Seville brake upgrade, and I installed my Seville calipers upside down (see near the end of this thread) so I could use my existing e-brake cables. I put Speed Bleeders on all calipers, and didn't have any trouble bleeding the system. It works great!

I followed the video supply by V-8 Archie and installed the Seville calipers upside down to allow for the bleeders to be on top. One has to be careful when making the support bracket that holds the e-brake cable up from hitting the cv-joint. Mine broke the first time I tried the e-brake and the bracket broke and the cable dropped on to the cv-joint and ruined both the cable and cv-joint. It was not a happy day. I have since made some support brackets that won't brake.

I have the same "no-pedal syndrome" with the engine running or not. To answer another question, no I didn't try to use the original Fiero M/C. I followed Archie's instructions to a "T." The original M/C had 177k miles on it and I threw it away.

Yesterday I found an item I might try and that is Cardone makes a quickie M/C bleeder. Part number 10-5000MCB. It does the same job as bench bleeding but in reverse. You force fluid into the M/C through the output holes. For $6.00, what the Hell. I've already spent over $2k. There is a video demostration on how to apply it on-line.

The only thing that I think might be happening is that the slider valve rod, the one inside the proportioning valve assembly, is being sucked slightly backward when vacuum bleeding, but not enough to trigger the brake light on the dash, but just enough to block the fluid from going to the rear calipers. I'm going to gravity bleed the system and keep a close watch on the position of this rod to make sure it doesn't move. I'll do this after I try this Cardone thing. The nice thing about the Cardone M/C bleeder is that you could bleed the M/C on the car and not get brake fluid all over the place like one does when bench bleeding.

I sure hope someone can come up with a solution for I've read a lot of posts from people that have the same problem and no resolution.

i have speed bleeders on my setup and they work really well .one other thing i do is hook clear tubing on the bleeders with a loop going up and then down into a jar .this keeps the end of the bleed screw covered in fluid so it wont suck air back in between pedal pumps .i have the RCC kit on mine and i cant remember if i put a different MC on or not .bleeding has not been a problem .

quote Originally posted by wftb: i have speed bleeders on my setup and they work really well .one other thing i do is hook clear tubing on the bleeders with a loop going up and then down into a jar .this keeps the end of the bleed screw covered in fluid so it wont suck air back in between pedal pumps .i have the RCC kit on mine and i cant remember if i put a different MC on or not .bleeding has not been a problem .

I like this method because it is straight out of the book.....

I took the car back to the guy that installed the brakes and he stated that he bled the brakes with the "CAR ON" ... thats right... bleed the brakes with the "CAR ON"

That gives me great brakes @ 50% pedal travel or one hard pump and then firm pedal as one would expect.