Like I said, I totally agree. There are way too many variables to let a computer tell you how fast a car is. Simply changing drivers in the same exact car can be a second or two difference. Ive had 2 brand new cars I bought together with consecutive VIN numbers myself, that were identical, even to color and interior. One was fast as hell, other was a total dog. Both brand new. How would a computer explain that. ?
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07:43 PM
TopNotch Member
Posts: 3537 From: Lawrenceville, GA USA Registered: Feb 2009
I wonder what ever happened to the "bow tie block" V6? That was a racing version of the 60 degree V6 that GM Performance used to make. It was based on the original 2.8, but was made of aluminum with iron inserts for the cylinders, and had a better oiling system. It was strong, and you could make big power with it. It was, to the 60 degree V6, what the Super Duty 4 was to the Iron Duke. Edit: See page 2 of this.
[This message has been edited by TopNotch (edited 02-03-2010).]
Originally posted by MadDanceSkillz:... according to some 210 is not possible on a 3.4l without even more extensive modification than the one I have does.
People say you cant because they dont want you to, or they want you to fail.
Over 210 is certianly possible on the engine, Someone here is producing nutty high numbers with a turbo on a 2.8 a far weaker engine block than the 3.4...
There is a theoretical limit to the displacement as to the HP Normally aspirated on gasoline, I am sure you dont have every bit of HP out of that engine yet, you could deck the block and raise compression more to get more HP out of it as well.
[This message has been edited by timgray (edited 02-03-2010).]
Looks like the 3 people who PM'd me telling me to stop posting fake numbers were wrong.
As for running low 13's, I say again...
A stock 3800 Series II N/A swap has power almost identical to the one my engine puts out with a similar powerband, and they simply don't run low 13's. before anyone gets pissed, note I said stock.
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09:32 PM
Feb 4th, 2010
Oreif Member
Posts: 16460 From: Schaumburg, IL Registered: Jan 2000
Looks like the 3 people who PM'd me telling me to stop posting fake numbers were wrong.
As for running low 13's, I say again...
A stock 3800 Series II N/A swap has power almost identical to the one my engine puts out with a similar powerband, and they simply don't run low 13's. before anyone gets pissed, note I said stock.
Actually the 3800 N/A horsepower rating is at the crankshaft not the rear-wheels. The chassis dyno gives you what you have at the rear wheels. So your engine actually has a little more power than the stock 3800 N/A series II engine.
Don't worry about darkhorizon's "low 13's" statements. Everyone knows he is wrong.
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06:20 AM
TopNotch Member
Posts: 3537 From: Lawrenceville, GA USA Registered: Feb 2009
60 Degree V6 Power Manual Right click on the above link and select "Save Link As" or "Save Target As". This is a large file (30 MB), so it will take a while to download. It is an old manual on how to build up the 60 degree V6 engine. It is based on the 2.8, but just about everything applies to newer versions also.
Way back in the day 1FST2M6 dyno'd his car around 270 rwhp (2.8L with NOS) and ran a 12.9 second run.
I'm not trying to rat Travis (1FST2M6) out, as I really don't think he cares at this point and I don't like the disemination of non-facts but his 12.9sec run was with a 3.4 already installed when he bought the car and restored it, not a 2.8, dyno tuned properly nevertheless on a dynojet by one of the best tuners in the business, but a 2.8 regardless. It sure made for embarrasing moments at the strip and from light to light...
Why is everyone arguing over this? OREIF hit the high 190's whp years ago with a carbed 3.4...look at the archives. So yes, maybe you could make > 210 whp by following a setup very similar to OREIF with some additional work to it like the S10 truck drivers.
stock DOHC fieros, 180-190 whp are only in the high 13's until they start modifying the intake manifold and adding cams, like fieromadman, and that drops them into the mid-13s.
[This message has been edited by msweldon (edited 02-04-2010).]
60 Degree V6 Power Manual Right click on the above link and select "Save Link As" or "Save Target As". This is a large file (30 MB), so it will take a while to download. It is an old manual on how to build up the 60 degree V6 engine. It is based on the 2.8, but just about everything applies to newer versions also.
downloaded program opens with a corruption error in adobe. Is there another place to download it from?
60 Degree V6 Power Manual Right click on the above link and select "Save Link As" or "Save Target As". This is a large file (30 MB), so it will take a while to download. It is an old manual on how to build up the 60 degree V6 engine. It is based on the 2.8, but just about everything applies to newer versions also.
Uploaded again using a different FTP client. It should be OK now.
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09:35 AM
PFF
System Bot
Tharimust Member
Posts: 88 From: Lac du bonnet, mb, Canada Registered: May 2006
dyno runs. The numbers you get from a dyno are only relitive to your car, on that day, on that dyno. what is important is the power curve. and the a/f ratioes. my v8 car has a junky 1983 ( never had the heads off) crossfire 305. 175 big HP in 83. car has a 4t60 with a 2.84 rear gear. it is raced right at 3150 pounds. on street tires, no burn out, letting the trans do the shifting. I run bracket racing. Last wed night I made 5 runs before we got rained out. 60 ft / ET........2.05/14.74, 2.07/14.69, 2.06/14.67, 2.07/14.66 and 2.07/14.65. all made in 33 minets. Most of the mph were at 92 mph. when I bought the z/28 that this engine came out of it made more power, but that was 19 years ago. Run the numbers in your hp caculaters. See what you get. This engine ran 16.4 in the z/28, before the son wrecked it. When he ran it I was in the other lane wuppin him my 3800 II fiero.
and for the guy that never ran before, leave on the last yellow.
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04:34 PM
Lilchief Member
Posts: 1755 From: Vevay,Indiana Registered: Feb 2004
i guess so :P. yea run nitrous. It will make you happy. If you want 240 Rwhp you need 296 crank horse power. thats how much i made at 2900 rpm on my motor according to my dyno. lol
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10:52 PM
PFF
System Bot
darkhorizon Member
Posts: 12279 From: Flint Michigan Registered: Jan 2006
You are way incorrect or have no clue what you are talking about.
200 rwhp will give you a high 13 second run in a Fiero.
Whoever "Justin" is lied to you. He has to be near 300 rwhp to run a low 12 run if he is driving a Fiero.
Way back in the day 1FST2M6 dyno'd his car around 270 rwhp (2.8L with NOS) and ran a 12.9 second run.
Sorry but there is no way a 2700-2800 lbs vehicle is going to run a low 13 second run with 200 rwhp. Not unless it can somehow break the laws of physics.
EDIT: I am not saying you didn't run those times, I am saying that the amout of rwhp is more than you think if you ran those times.
I built nearly everything horsepower related on justins car... It was a SC 3800 with nearly nothing done, and a crap 60ft... No way in hell it was making more than 300 crank horsepower with just a pulley swap, 280 would be a realistic number. There is no doubt that it ran what it ran, I was there racing him (along with other forum members). Remember these came with 240hp stock.....
Unless I am a magical tuning god, then then there is something wrong with the math on your end. The exhaust setup, and intake setup was not really ideal, and the motor had 150k+ on it..... There was well less than $250 invested into the entire powerplant of that setup. Car was full weight, 86GT, with bald street tires.
N/A 3800's in fieros are quite easily into the high 13 low 14 bracket depending on transmission setup, so I dont really get why it is so hard to believe a car with a ton more power than a n/a 3800, and just a smidge less than a SC cant run low 13s at 100+mph
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11:33 PM
Feb 7th, 2010
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
the Chevy power book said that the 2.8 HO head ported will flow enough to make 270 HP so the 3.4 would make the same power just at a lower rpm but it would have more torque. HP is made with cylinder haed flow mostly there are some othere factors but every thing can be perfect and if the heads dont flow you wont have good HP .
[This message has been edited by engine man (edited 02-07-2010).]
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03:58 AM
Oreif Member
Posts: 16460 From: Schaumburg, IL Registered: Jan 2000
I built nearly everything horsepower related on justins car... It was a SC 3800 with nearly nothing done, and a crap 60ft... No way in hell it was making more than 300 crank horsepower with just a pulley swap, 280 would be a realistic number. There is no doubt that it ran what it ran, I was there racing him (along with other forum members). Remember these came with 240hp stock.....
Unless I am a magical tuning god, then then there is something wrong with the math on your end. The exhaust setup, and intake setup was not really ideal, and the motor had 150k+ on it..... There was well less than $250 invested into the entire powerplant of that setup. Car was full weight, 86GT, with bald street tires.
N/A 3800's in fieros are quite easily into the high 13 low 14 bracket depending on transmission setup, so I dont really get why it is so hard to believe a car with a ton more power than a n/a 3800, and just a smidge less than a SC cant run low 13s at 100+mph
I think you have your numbers mixed up. My math isn't wrong and neither is the numerous Fiero's that have actual ran down the 1/4 mile. Look at the quarter mile lists on here: Stock 3800SC's are running low/mid 13's 3800SC's with pulley changes and tuning are all running in the low 13's/high 12's. Many of the 3800SC's running in the low 12's have a lot more mods and intercoolers. A 3800 N/A has 200hp at the crank and they run mid/high 14's. 3.4DOHC engines have 215 crank hp and run low/mid 14's The 3.4L engines I built were both built up from the block up and both were dyno'd. 230hp crank hp and ran in the high 13's/low 14's
Now tell us again how YOU added a pulley and some tuning on your friends car and he then pulled a low 12-second run?????? 280 crank will not run 12.3, I think you mean he ran a 13.2.
This isn't "bench racing" just look at the numerous examples of the many cars on the 1/4 mile list. These are actual cars running down the 1/4 mile with their particular set-up. While the list does not show dyno'd horsepower, With the numerous examples of particular engines you can estimate the amount of modifications/horsepower required to go a certain time down the quarter mile.
Originally posted by Oreif: Stock 3800SC's are running low/mid 13's 3800SC's with pulley changes and tuning are all running in the low 13's/high 12's. Many of the 3800SC's running in the low 12's have a lot more mods and intercoolers. A 3800 N/A has 200hp at the crank and they run mid/high 14's. 3.4DOHC engines have 215 crank hp and run low/mid 14's The 3.4L engines I built were both built up from the block up and both were dyno'd. 230hp crank hp and ran in the high 13's/low 14's
Where is the disagreement here?
Stock auto 3800SC makes 190whp, typical WHP for my mildly modded 12.8 second automatic car is around 220-225... in a manual maybe 205-210 stock and 240-250 modded, right where we are at here (as we just put down 210whp with a manual). Low 13s line up just fine if you ask me... I know the trap speeds would.
[The 3.4L engines I built were both built up from the block up and both were dyno'd. 230hp crank hp and ran in the high 13's/low 14's[/quote]
And if someone claimed to make 210whp, which is more than 230 crank hp, then why would it be unheard of to run low 13's, or at least mid 13s with 100+ traps?
Now tell us again how YOU added a pulley and some tuning on your friends car and he then pulled a low 12-second run?????? 280 crank will not run 12.3, I think you mean he ran a 13.2.
I never ran a "low 12" I ran 12.6@109 with just a 3.4 pulley on the 4spd. Goodyear triple treads I changed to a 5spd added rockers, 3.2 pulley, race gas, and could only manage a 12.5@110.5 Bald Goodyear triple treads -add 100 shot of nitrous and I went 11.97@120 on BFG drag radials
