A 60-degree V6 is inherently smooth because of the 60-degree angle, and doesn't need a balance shaft. A 90-degree V6 does need one to be a smooth. Both the 85-87 and 88 V6's are balanced, but in the 88, it's all in the crank, so there's less loading on the bearings. So the 88 V6 should last longer. In reality, how the engine is maintained has a lot to do with it.
[This message has been edited by TopNotch (edited 01-30-2010).]
I doubt its smoother ..the v6 has an inherent primary imbalance due to the odd number of pistons ..if it had a balance shaft then I would say yes
That makes no sense... the 60* degree V6 needs no blance shaft as it is inherently balanced with an ignition event every 120* of crankshaft rotation. The 3.8 and 4.3 are 90* V6s and are not naturally balanced requiring fancy tricks with crank and balance shafts to make them even fire. The original odd fire configuration was every 90* and 150* of crank rotation.
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02:12 PM
Erik Member
Posts: 5628 From: Des Moines, Iowa Registered: Jul 2002
That makes no sense... the 60* degree V6 needs no blance shaft as it is inherently balanced with an ignition event every 120* of crankshaft rotation. The 3.8 and 4.3 are 90* V6s and are not naturally balanced requiring fancy tricks with crank and balance shafts to make them even fire. The original odd fire configuration was every 90* and 150* of crank rotation.
The 60 degree v6 configuration is the smoothest v6 as it is the optimum angle for a v6 and uses a split pin 120 degree even fire crank. No v6 is inherently balanced due to the odd number of pistons on each bank that cause a rocking motion end to end that is not canceled out by the "out of phase" ( for lack of a better term) throws of the rotating mass. Some manufactures use balance shafts to attain the ultimate in smoothness in conjunction to manipulating counterweights and flywheel balance.
Vee-angle does not dictate whether an engine will be even or odd-fire.
The crankpins between adjacent cylinders can be offset to allow for even firing regardless of vee angle.
60* V6s aren't totally balanced. They suffer from an end-to-end rocking motion. But 90* V6 is worse with respect to this - typically, it's bad enough to require a balance shaft, while 60* V6 get away without using one.
I wouldn't say internal or external balance is superior. It's just two different approaches to solving the balance issue. You can either have little mass located far, or alot of mass located more closely, and have the same effect...
[This message has been edited by pmbrunelle (edited 01-30-2010).]
Vee-angle does not dictate whether an engine will be even or odd-fire.
The crankpins between adjacent cylinders can be offset to allow for even firing regardless of vee angle.
60* V6s aren't totally balanced. They suffer from an end-to-end rocking motion. But 90* V6 is worse with respect to this - typically, it's bad enough to require a balance shaft, while 60* V6 get away without using one.
I wouldn't say internal or external balance is superior. It's just two different approaches to solving the balance issue. You can either have little mass located far, or alot of mass located more closely, and have the same effect...
Well if you want to go with that argument, then of course, absolutely no engine is totally balanced... there are all kinds of harmonics (2nd, 3rd, 4th order, etc...) in spinning something using pulses of ignition events... but the 60* is easier to balance than the 90*.
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08:27 PM
Feb 1st, 2010
phonedawgz Member
Posts: 17106 From: Green Bay, WI USA Registered: Dec 2009
A flat "boxer" engine has natural dynamic balance. The only other two engine designs that can have natural dynamic balance are the straight 6 and the V12.
A flat "boxer" engine has natural dynamic balance. The only other two engine designs that can have natural dynamic balance are the straight 6 and the V12.
However, in the case of boxer engines with fewer than six cylinders, unbalanced moments (a reciprocating torque also known as a "rocking couple") are unavoidable when the output is a crankshaft due to the "opposite" cylinders being not exactly opposite but offset slightly.
There are exceptions to almost every rule...
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07:24 AM
Torch-Red87 Member
Posts: 314 From: Stuttgart, Germany Registered: Aug 2004
However, in the case of boxer engines with fewer than six cylinders, unbalanced moments (a reciprocating torque also known as a "rocking couple") are unavoidable when the output is a crankshaft due to the "opposite" cylinders being not exactly opposite but offset slightly.
quote
Originally posted by carbon: There are exceptions to almost every rule...
Haha if you want to talk exceptions, a boxer engine could be built with forked connecting rods, so that opposing cylinders are perfectly opposite of each other!
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06:25 PM
fierogt28 Member
Posts: 2962 From: New-Brunswick, Canada. Registered: Feb 2005
I doubt its smoother ..the v6 has an inherent primary imbalance due to the odd number of pistons ..if it had a balance shaft then I would say yes
The improved oiling is the biggest factor IMO for increased life of the motor
This is only true of the 90* V6. The 60* is balanced.
I have one of each ('88 and '85) and I'd say there is no difference between them other than the '85 has more 0-60 umph than the '88. ------------------ RickN White 88GT 5spd White 85GT Auto (coming soon SC3800 Series II w/ AOD) White 99 F250SD 7.3PSD 6spd 1956 Ford 860 Tractor w/ Freeman Loader 20Ft H&H Tilt Bed Trailer
[This message has been edited by RickN (edited 02-01-2010).]
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08:02 PM
Feb 2nd, 2010
SCCAFiero Member
Posts: 1144 From: Boca Raton, Fl USA Registered: Apr 2006
I have run both styles and will only add one thing to the discussion. Stock they both feel about the same. However a complete balance job from the damper to the flywheel makes a HUGE difference in how smooth they are, as well as how quickly they rev up. Stock specs are "good enough" for mass production, but not necessarily smoothness. They can be built to be smoother just by tightening up the tolerances.
