I've been looking around for my first Fiero and I've been debating whether to get one with a V6 or an Iron Duke. The economy of the Iron Duke is very appealing as I'm merely in high school. On the other hand the power of the V6 is also appealing. Reliability is important to me as well, which engine is known to be more reliable? When your driving does the Iron Duke FEEL underpowered? I'm just looking for opinions here.

for reliability and economy, duke all the way.

for power, L67

/thread

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Speaking from firsthand experience as a highschooler with a GT, I will tell you to go with the duke. Sure the V6 is more powerful but it is VERY thirsty for what power you do get.

Plus, the duke is significantly more reliable if you can find one that hasn't been flogged to death every day. Either way, get a manual transmission.

The fuel economy difference between the automatic and a 4speed (when mated to a duke) is around 6mpg (32auto / 38manual)

Good luck either way

I agree, economy and reliability are both traditionally more attributed to the Duke more than the 2.8. As for power, neither one has enough. The duke accelerates like an economy car. Still, it being a Fiero, it still shines in the curves. There are very few 2.8 owners who aren't looking for more power through upgrades and engine swaps. Not only more power but more economy, too! Yes you can have both together. Swapping in a 3800 will give more of both but I'd say you have to keep your foot out of it. The 2.8 does not get great mileage and my personal opinion is it is overly complicated with all of those vacuum hoses all over the place. The 2.8 runs pretty hot, too. That makes the plastic components brittle and easily breakable. Just my opinion of course. By the way, I have two 2.8s and one Duke. Guess which one runs?

Jonathan

You want good MPG get the I4 you want power V6. I have 2 V6's and you will get pretty good MPG if you get a stick shift. The autos eat gas up. Up until newyears eve i was driving my 87 GT 5 Speed daily and it was a pretty reliable car. Gave me minnimal problems and drove very niceley. Now that i got my firebird back it is going to be doing some sitting until i get it painted.

Thanks for all the quick replies! I was planning on getting the stick either way. The ol' duke sounds like the way to go because reliability is up there in my priorities (yea yea i know I probably shouldn't be getting a fiero then, but I love the car too much)...now just to find a freaking decent fiero in my area. If anyone knows any in the NJ tristate area please share! I don't mind doing a bit of work on it either.

quote Originally posted by ert342: Thanks for all the quick replies! I was planning on getting the stick either way. The ol' duke sounds like the way to go because reliability is up there in my priorities (yea yea i know I probably shouldn't be getting a fiero then, but I love the car too much)...now just to find a freaking decent fiero in my area. If anyone knows any in the NJ tristate area please share! I don't mind doing a bit of work on it either.

Ill keep an eye out. How much are you looking to spend?
I will say that if your looking for a fiero to drive daily than go for the duke. The V6's are more of a hobby car and 90% of us who do have a V6 fiero have another car that we drive daily. I do not trust my fiero on long drives at all. even though it has givin me any reason not to they are still a pain in the a**. Plus if you want the Fastback look than that can be easley achived in a weekend. Hell since your close enough I could even come up and help you do one. But your best be for a duke would be an 87 or 88.

[This message has been edited by pontiackid86 (edited 01-02-2010).]

Well I'm kind of new to all this. I was trying to keep it under $900, is that reasonable??

quote Originally posted by ert342: Well I'm kind of new to all this. I was trying to keep it under $900, is that reasonable??

You could find a Duke needing some work for that price. I'd be willing to come up and help you out with it if need be. I bought my 1st fiero for $500 and that was a 60K mile V6 needing a lot of work.

Well a duke needing some work is exactly what I want so perfect. If I need help I will definitely remember your offer its hard to find people that are knowledgeable about the Fiero around here. Thanks. Now I guess I just wait and look for my future Fiero!

I guess I had not realized that there was a reliability issue with the V6 (I have 2) but I will say that the Duke has the V6 beat, hands down, on fuel mileage. In your position I think I would be leaning towards the Duke also. The 2.8 is not all that on performance anyway. Let the 4 cyl save you some money for now, then re-engine it with your weapon of choice when you have some extra time and money to toss around.

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RickN
White 88GT 5spd
White 85GT Auto
White 99 F250SD 7.3PSD 6spd
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The iron duke has never been a bastion of reliability. Fuel mileage, yes. But a properly tuned V6 isn't thirsty either. And if your V6 runs hot, it's certainly not a design fault. Show me the numbers on people who would swap their V6 for a weak ass duke. I see no reliability edge in a duke.

I guess if you want the most economical car, the duke is the way to go. However, I'm in high school, and my daily driver fiero is a v6, and I like it for the power, and it also looks cleaner most of the time.

quote Originally posted by weaselbeak: The iron duke has never been a bastion of reliability. Fuel mileage, yes. But a properly tuned V6 isn't thirsty either. And if your V6 runs hot, it's certainly not a design fault. Show me the numbers on people who would swap their V6 for a weak ass duke. I see no reliability edge in a duke.

The duke is very reliable in stock form.
And I would not trade mine for a 2.8 either.
I seen an s10 with an iron duke hit 97x,xxx miles with basic maintenance, then the timing gear went, and the whole thing started falling apart

The V6 is reliable i waould say. The only problem you get with them is when you start needing to replace parts, it just seems like one thing after another. My 86 started with an EGR tube problem. That quickley moved onto a broken spark plug problem so on and so forth. My 87 needed an alternator belt. During the replacement of that my ratchet grazed a brake line and put a hole in it. Than from there during the bleeding process the bleeder screw broke off in the caliper causing the need for a new caliper. And since the caliper was the last on the line nothing from there but it just seems to be an error process.

The duke is reliable but it is easyer to work on than the V6. And there is no point in doing performance mods to it because the basic idea of the car was to save gas. All engines can be reliable it all depends on how well you take care of them.

[This message has been edited by pontiackid86 (edited 01-02-2010).]

I was going to stay away from them anyway as its the first model year anyway. If I could find an 88 that would be great but they tend to be a little more pricey/rare. so 85-87 is probably what's going to happen. Anything I should know about these years?

I paid $900 for my 88 duke. Replaced a caliper, front brake pads, MAT sensor, free V6 mufffler, headlight and a rubber tranny hose (AT).
Forgot, I just got a set of new tires for the rear

Has 127,xxx miles and running strong

[This message has been edited by LitebulbwithaFiero (edited 01-02-2010).]

I'll through in my 0.02 here. When you talk about reliability, it all depends on what condition the car is in V6 or Duke. If the car has been cared for and maintained both are equally reliable. I have an 88 Fomula V6 5 speed with 75k and have had very little issues. A TPS sensor and an O2 Sensor, battery and tires. The Duke is an 88 Coupe with an auto - 80k and has had the same problems - TPS, O2, Battery and some wiring issues. If you are planning on driving the car - either motor - as a driver and not a race car, both are equally reliable. I have seen numerous Dukes with a rod sticking out the side of it and a few V6's seized up with spun bearings. It's all relative to the person driving it.

As for economy, The Duke wins but not by a lot. I get up to 31 mpg in the Formula driving under 65 on the highway - over 65 it starts dropping but the worse I have gotten on the Interstate is 28 and that's @ 80 plus between El Paso and San Antonio. Around town I get a solid 26. But I take very good care of my Fiero's and I do not abuse them. The Duke with the Auto gets 33 on the Interstate under 60. Over 60, it gets 27 or less. Around town it gets 27. I would imagine the Duke with a 5 speed would get a few more.

Dukes are famous for broke rods, broke timing gears and blown head gaskets. V6's are famous for spun rod bearings and vacuum leaks. The Duke is easier to work on - less complicated. Neither are going to be a fire breathing mega powered motors. Stock is best when it come to these 2 motors! There are a few cheap mods that help the V6. Not sure what can be done to the duke to improve it with out putting a lot of dollars in it.

My advice is to look for a car that fits your budget and is the best cared for regardless of what motor it has. If you can find one that was taken care of, you can't go wrong with either engine. Good luck on your quest.

Pat

P.S. I also have an 86 with a 350 SBC that gets around 20 if I am not rodding the crap out of it. But I really do not care about economy in this car........Muahhhahhhh!

quote Originally posted by ert342: I was going to stay away from them anyway as its the first model year anyway. If I could find an 88 that would be great but they tend to be a little more pricey/rare. so 85-87 is probably what's going to happen. Anything I should know about these years?

Parts for the 88 tend to be a bit more expensive brake steering and suspension wise. Its the same concept as buying a cheap Ferrari You might be able to afford the car but can you afford the parts. The best year for ya i think would be an 86 or 87. I beleave you can find an 86 or 87 duke with an aero package on it so you get the sporty lookin bumpers and all that. There a little hard to come by but they are out there. Ill drop you my number in a PM. Ill take a look around to see what is out there for ya.

I HAVE AN IRON DUKE FOR SALE FOR $199 IF YOU INTERESTED YOU CAN CALL ME OR PM 586 214 1344 FRANK CALL/TEXT IM IN MICHIGAN RUNS GREAT 100K WITH NEW PLUGS WIRES CAP ROTOR AND PLUGS

quote Originally posted by katatak: As for economy, The Duke wins but not by a lot. I get up to 31 mpg in the Formula driving under 65 on the highway - over 65 it starts dropping but the worse I have gotten on the Interstate is 28 and that's @ 80 plus between El Paso and San Antonio. Around town I get a solid 26. ... The Duke with the Auto gets 33 on the Interstate under 60. Over 60, it gets 27 or less. Around town it gets 27. I would imagine the Duke with a 5 speed would get a few more.

My experience is that a 5 speed V6 will get better mileage than an auto duke on the highway. And around town it's nearly a tie. But that is just my personal experience, your mileage will vary.

quote Originally posted by jscott1: My experience is that a 5 speed V6 will get better mileage than an auto duke on the highway. And around town it's nearly a tie. But that is just my personal experience, your mileage will vary.

X2. My daily comute to work is about 12 miles each way. I make small random trips during the week to the food store and stuff like that. As long as i dont go out on the weekends with my friends, my V6 5 Speed's tank will last me a good week and a half.

To go off topic, will a duke get better gas mileage with an auto or 4 speed muncie?

[This message has been edited by LitebulbwithaFiero (edited 01-03-2010).]

When comparing the 4 banger to the 6 for reliablity, people should take into account that the v6 are generally beat on a lot more, whereas 4s are brought by folks looking for gas millage and not the go-fast crowd. I dont think there's much dif in the reliablilty department between the two. Additionally a lot of people tend to rev their stock v6s too high which is a huge waste of fuel whereas above 4 - 4.5K rpm they get very rich in stock trim.

With a manaul trans, good sensors and a good tune the v6 does not get bad gas millage. Considering that a stock v6 is under powered most find the 4 to be lacking greatly. As others have said, go with a stick both for gas millage and power. Good luck with with your first Fiero.

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trueleo.com
RSpiderII@aol.com

I wouldn't mind a nice 88 5 speed with a Duke. I have an 84 with a 2200 out of a Cavalier that is fun to drive. If it was in good condition I would keep it and make my wife drive it.

quote Originally posted by LitebulbwithaFiero: To go off topic, will a duke get better gas mileage with an auto or 4 speed muncie?

You always get better MPG in any car you drive with a manual. Autos consume a lot more gas.

quote Originally posted by ert342: I was trying to keep it under $900, is that reasonable??

Yes.

I think you can stay within your $900 budget do that with some of the Dukes from `85 through `87 on which you've elected to focus in your searches for a Fiero. Check out this website for the Pontiac Fiero Price Guide that is put together annually by NIFE (Northern Illinois Fiero Enthusiasts) Membership Director, Paul Vargyas: http://home.xnet.com/~paulv/Price%20Guide.htm .

In particular, check out that guideline's average price guesstimates for the 4-cylinder Coupe and Sport Coupe models from `85 through `87 that are in "fair condition." They are within your $900 budget.

Good luck to you in your search for a Fiero, ert342, and welcome to Pennock's Fiero Forum!

quote Originally posted by pontiackid86: You always get better MPG in any car you drive with a manual. Autos consume a lot more gas.

This is less true in modern autos that have 6 or more forward gears. It however is VERY true in a Fiero where all you have is a three speed auto with no overdrive.

Also hybrids with their continuously variable transmissions (an addition to the battery and electric motors) level the field to where an auto can be very efficient.

got my 87 duke with 135k miles on it for $700. only issue was headlight motors need new gears, there is a short in one of the taillights, third brake light needed replacing, and passenger door stuck a bit (numerous i guess, but all VERY minor). $900, in my area, could fetch you a pretty good fiero

quote Originally posted by jscott1: This is less true in modern autos that have 6 or more forward gears. It however is VERY true in a Fiero where all you have is a three speed auto with no overdrive. Also hybrids with their continuously variable transmissions (an addition to the battery and electric motors) level the field to where an auto can be very efficient.

True I wouldent say this about the corolla XRS or sentra spec V but when it comes to cars such as the Trans am or Camaro The 6 speed can be a bit of a pig. But than again you dont buy thoes kinds of cars for there MPG rating

quote Originally posted by pontiackid86: I will say that if your looking for a fiero to drive daily than go for the duke. The V6's are more of a hobby car and 90% of us who do have a V6 fiero have another car that we drive daily. I do not trust my fiero on long drives at all. even though it has givin me any reason not to they are still a pain in the a**.

I'd have to disagree with that.

I have well over 200,000 km. on my V6 and most of that operating in boosted form, with never a problem with reliability. The V6 should be dead reliable. The Iron Puke is dead boring.

The 4 cylinder may indeed make a wise choice for a student on a budget, but the V6 makes a car that is fun to drive! Depends on what the priorities are.

duke this year, 3800 next year.

V- 6 all the way. Ive had both and i must say id take a V-6 over the Duke anyday. Mine has 175,000 miles still with good oil pressure etc. and it looks cooler, i like the design of the intake with Fiero engraved on it. And it gets looks when the declkid is open (if your engine is clean) And, ive found that they are heavier in the snow. When I had my duke in high school 15 yrs ago, it seemed light in the snow as is my 87 Mr2. I have a 350z and a Mr2 and Fiero, and guess what I drive on snowy or snow packed roads.... Definitely the Fiero. More weight in the back.

quote Originally posted by BillS: I'd have to disagree with that. I have well over 200,000 km. on my V6 and most of that operating in boosted form, with never a problem with reliability. The V6 should be dead reliable. The Iron Puke is dead boring. The 4 cylinder may indeed make a wise choice for a student on a budget, but the V6 makes a car that is fun to drive! Depends on what the priorities are.

It dosent really matter about the miles. I have 115K on my 87 and 80K on my 86. I just dont think it is a car that would be a reliable car to todays standerds as a daily driver.

quote Originally posted by weaselbeak: The iron duke has never been a bastion of reliability. Fuel mileage, yes. But a properly tuned V6 isn't thirsty either. And if your V6 runs hot, it's certainly not a design fault. Show me the numbers on people who would swap their V6 for a weak ass duke. I see no reliability edge in a duke.

I have to agree, iv been driving a 2.8 SE V6 for 16 years. (same car, still have it, still runs great.) and sure iv had problems with the car, but iv NEVER had a problem with the engine. And iv ran that engine hard as hell for years. It was my first car, drove it all through highschool like a bat outta hell, no engine troubles.. Drove it pretty hard during my college years too. No engine troubles. Hell, i still drive the car hard! Its always been really strong, and still is. Of course iv always taken excellent care of the engine too..

Now when it comes to fuel economy.. Well yea the 4 banger is gonna do better. But its not that hugh of a difference, and the V6 is so much more peppy and fun, in my opinion.. But its all about what you want man.. Test drive one of each. Find out what each car feels like, then weigh in your factors on economy and such, with which one you thought was more fun to drive, then make a choice. That would be the best way to go about it..

Iv driven both a fiero with a duke (my parents old fiero) and my fiero with the 2.8.. And ill never... ever.. get a fiero with a 4 banger.. Just doesnt do it for me.

[This message has been edited by Jonesy (edited 01-04-2010).]

Thanks for all the help guys. Anyone care to share their opinions on this particular car. I have a brother that lives right by here and could probably give it a good test drive for me and pick it up. (He test drives for GM so I trust him )

EDIT: whoops forgot link http://toledo.craigslist.org/cto/1533182946.html

[This message has been edited by ert342 (edited 01-05-2010).]

That's a freaking deal right there. A fiero like that would go for at least double around here.

quote Originally posted by ert342: Thanks for all the help guys. Anyone care to share their opinions on this particular car. I have a brother that lives right by here and could probably give it a good test drive for me and pick it up. (He test drives for GM so I trust him ) EDIT: whoops forgot link http://toledo.craigslist.org/cto/1533182946.html

Not bad. Hell when you get it you can come hang with me and BOH and get some stuff done on it.

The 88 duke 5 speed is fun to drive,,more spirited than the 84 to 86 ,,Of course an 88 duke is more difficult to locate at a reasonable price ..
"" the 88 Fiero is the car Pontiac should have built the first time,,handles better,, brakes much better,"",
buy a car with a good engine and transmission do not worry to much about appearence ,,a car that needs a lot of mechanical work..spoil s part of the fun of the newness