I just got my car cranked up after a 3 year sit.. (replaced the fuel pump).. I did an oil change, and when i run the car (i just start it and let it idle.) It takes about 5 minutes for it to warm up to just over 220 on the gauge, then it sits there for a minute, then slowly starts rising, and once it gets into the red, i cut it off.. And the radiator fan isnt kicking on.

I took the thermostat out, and tried cranking the motor with the cap off for just a second to see if any water/coolant came out, and theres none in there at all.. But the coolant reservoir up front is full. So could it be the water pump? Thermostat? None of the coolant pipes under the car are pinched or damaged and there are no leaks.

A new thermostat is in order, cause the old one is pretty beat up.. (it was all bent up somehow) So ill be getting one of those anyway..

So what else should i check (easiest to hardest.) And if it is the water pump, can an ameture like me easily replace that with basic tools, or is that something ill need to get done by a pro?

Thanks.

[This message has been edited by Jonesy (edited 12-22-2009).]

Front radiator cap? Check in Ogre's cave for the correct one. Many parts stores list an incorrect cap #..

The thermostat cap is where the coolant is filled on a Fiero. The reservoir up front is just a way of maintaining the level on a normally operating system. Bring the coolant up to the top of the thermostat housing and put the cap on (It does help burp the system if that side of the car is a little higher than the rest of the car.). Now start the engine and run it for a minute or two (without the thermostat in). Stop the engine and carefully check for leaks, especially the hoses, heater core area and water pump area. If no leaks are found then carefully remove the thermostat cap and check the level again. If it's gone down top it off and repeat the procedure. When you take the cap off and it doesn't need any more coolant then install the thermostat and bring the engine up to operating temp.
As far as the fan goes if there was no coolant around the fan switch sensor then the fan probably would not come on.. I can't help you more than that because I don't know what year and engine you have. There's a lot of good info available in Ogre's cave. You'll find the link at the top and bottom of each page here.

[This message has been edited by 2farnorth (edited 12-22-2009).]

oh yeah i forgot to say what engine i had..

iv got a 86 SE, with the 2.8 V6

yeah i took the cap off and the thermostat out, and its bone dry in there..

I did read Ogre's cave and it does have good instructions on flushing the coolant system out and replacing it. Which i plan to do, but i plan to do that a little later.

So what should i pour into thermostat housing? should i just get some antifreeze and put it in there? Cause i read its not a good idea to mix brands, and i have no idea what brand coolant is in there already. (it was years ago when it was last flushed) Or should i just use water? I plan to flush the coolant later and replace it before i put the car on the road anyway.. (which will be a while since i need to finish my breaks first)

So should i go buy a bottle of antifreeze and pour it in, or just use water? Cause im guessing that if i fill up the thermostat housing, and it does go down after cranking the engine, that means the water pump is working.. And if thats the case it just might be a bad thermostat so its not opening to let the rest of the coolant in..

[This message has been edited by Jonesy (edited 12-22-2009).]

You can test it with water, but if you expect any freezing temps that's very chancy. If you're going to flush it anyway just get some Wal-Mart antifreeze/coolant, mix it 50 % with water and pour it in. Make sure it's the GREEN antifreeze. Don't use red or orange

edit: One of the things that you are looking for is where did the coolant that was supposed to be in there go? That's why you'll be looking carefully for leaks. Keep a catch pan handy after you put the coolant in. I'm afraid it wll be coming right back out some where. What is the condition of you oil? It's not milky or foamy is it?

[This message has been edited by 2farnorth (edited 12-22-2009).]

quote Originally posted by 2farnorth: You can test it with water, but if you expect any freezing temps that's very chancy. If you're going to flush it anyway just get some Wal-Mart antifreeze/coolant, mix it 50 % with water and pour it in. Make sure it's the GREEN antifreeze. Don't use red or orange edit: One of the things that you are looking for is where did the coolant that was supposed to be in there go? That's why you'll be looking carefully for leaks. Keep a catch pan handy after you put the coolant in. I'm afraid it wll be coming right back out some where. What is the condition of you oil? It's not milky or foamy is it?

Well i live in Alabama, so it doesnt usually get below freezing, and the car is kept in the garage anyway. I'll run to Walmart and just get some basic 50/50 antifreeze, and give it a try.

Well as far as the coolant that was suppost to be in there, i dunno where it went, iv been running the engine on and off for the past 3 days, (in short few minute spurts, mainly to warm up the oil for the oil changes iv done) and i havent found a leak of any kind anywhere.. (iv been checking throughly, i have white paper towls layed out all under the car, and i check for drip spots constantly.. So i dont think its a leak, i just dont think there was any in there to start with.. Keep in mind im just getting the car going again after sitting for 3 years.

My dad is suspecting that since it sat for so long, theres prolly no coolant in the engine, and that maby the thermostat has gone bad, and its not opening to let more in.. So my dad wants to "prime" the coolant system by basically doing what you just said, and ill replace the thermostat while im at it.. Plus the thermostat that was in there was beat up pretty bad.. Last time i had a tune up (years ago) the guy at the shop replaced it and i guess the only one he had was too big or something, cause the stems coming off it where all crushed down so it would fit into the housing.

I wanna get one of the lower temp thermostats from fiero store anyway, along with a lower temp fan switch.. I hear they give a small performance boost, but mainly i just want them to keep the engine cooler in the summers here (it gets hot!) which will just help take care of the engine better..

And as far as the oil in conserned. Iv already changed it twice.. I drained all the old oil out, and put in 4 quarts of 5W-20, with a new oil filter, (thinner oil to help clean up the engine a bit.) then ran the engine for a few minutes to warm up, and then drained that oil out, and put in 3 quarts 10W-30, and 1 quart of Marvel Mystery Oil, and then another new oil filter with that oil change.. So the oil is good.

[This message has been edited by Jonesy (edited 12-22-2009).]

You may not want a cooler temp thermostat. The engine's best performance is around 195F. Running at cooler temps, the ECM will make the car run richer and poorer fuel economy.

ah i didnt think of that.. thats for that bit of info Lar.. I'll wait till summer comes, and see how the car does temp wise on hot days, and if there does'nt seem to be a need to keep the car cooler, then i wont..

Oh yeah, about the coolant, something i just remembered.. The car while it was sitting, was on a incline.. So im willing to bet all the coolant drained to the front.. So i prolly need to prime the system. Which i will do in the morning..

quote Originally posted by Jonesy: Oh yeah, about the coolant, something i just remembered.. The car while it was sitting, was on a incline.. So im willing to bet all the coolant drained to the front.. So i prolly need to prime the system. Which i will do in the morning..

Don't overlook checking the radiator cap like Old Lar mentioned. Sound familiar?:

When the car is tipped nose down, we add another issue. Coolant is heavy and wants to run down hill. This increases the vacuum back in the engine. Even if the cooling system is perfect with no leaks to let in air, we run into a design problem with the water pump seal.

The water pump seal is designed mainly to keep pressure in the system. It’s often not designed to deal with the amount of vacuum that the Fiero cooling system can develop when it pointing nose down. Air is literally sucked past the pump seal by the coolant running down hill. Again, we have a slow flow of coolant, so the vented cap check valve may not close when this happens.

The non-vented cap prevents this simply because it has a sprung check valve. All the shifting coolant can do is push it tighter against the seal.

http://home.comcast.net/~fierocave/coolcaps.htm
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Maybe you have the wrong radiator cap on your car? That could also be why the coolant reservoir is full.

Mike

I dunno, the radiator cap is the same one that came with the car from the factory.. And i never had any problems with the cooling system before. And never had any problems with overheating..

But like i said, since the car was on an incline, i have a feeling the coolant all drained up front, so since there is none in the lines and engine, there is no pressure.. So maby if i fill up the thermostat housing, then run the engine a little to see if it cycles the coolant through. and just keep doing that over and over untill the coolant starts flowing again..

fill from engine cap. raise the back end of the car up.this way the coolent will flow to the front rad. when you see coolant filling the over flow bottle you are doing good.go slow on the fill. maybe a quart at a time. if you a doing this with no help.you will need to go from fill to front check.you can use 50-50 premix coolant with old coolant to be safe.when the front rad is done,make sure you top of the engine fill cap. going slow is a process of burping the system. replace the thermisat,twist lock the cap. lower the car to level ground. let car run 20-30 minetes.listen for fan to kick in. check your temp guage....good luck.

Yeah i basically did just that.. I put a half a bottle in the thermostat housing. basically poured it in untill it pooled up at the bottom.. Then i ran the car for a few minutes which brought the coolant through the system.. I let the air bubbles bleed out, then poured in some more.. Ended up using about 3/4 of a gallon. My pops kept an eye on the overflow bottle, and saw the coolant coming in. So once i did a few fills, and let the air bubbles bleed out, i started the car and let it warm up to temp, and the radiator fan kicked on right when it should have..(around 225 degrees) So everything is fine now..


Quick question about the Thermostat.. I picked up a new one, and the thermostat is too long for the housing. The old one that was in there, the mechanic that put it in just bend the stem down to make it fit, but i noticed that with it bent like that, it didnt seat perfectly in the housing.. So my question is, is it ok to clip off the top of the stem on the thermostat so it will fit correctly? Or would that cause a problem?

[This message has been edited by Jonesy (edited 12-23-2009).]

The thermostat cap is just hard to get on ! if you bend those legs or get a cheap t-stat they will collapse under pressure and be just like running without one. Dont even bother with the Autozone brand ones, they dont last a day ! you should have a hard time bending the "arms" on a good one, the autozone ones you can bend in one hand.

[This message has been edited by Mike Gonzalez (edited 12-23-2009).]

well they had two.. the one i got was the cheap $8 one.. But they also had a $12 one.. I cant remember the brand name, i think it was hypertec, or something like that. Should i get the more expensive one? Or maby order one of the ones from Fiero store?

I had that bent one in there for years when i was driving it.. So im guessing it doesnt hurt anything to not have one in there?

[This message has been edited by Jonesy (edited 12-23-2009).]

It could just make your engine less efficiant and heater not ever really get hot because it doesnt get up to operating temp, but doesnt cause damage. I would go for the $12 one unless it looks flimsy too !

Thermostat too long for the housing? Should not be if you have a stock engine. I have not found a thermostat that would not fit in my 86 SE in more than 23 years, regardless of where I bought it. To put on the thermostat cap it should not be a quick twist and lock. You have to push down on the cap while turning it to the correct position as shown by the arrow on the cap. It is a very very tight fit. The arrow should point to the rear of the engine. I have used a very large pair of slip joint pliers or a rubber strap wrench to put the cap on. Makes the job very easy.

I'm guessing it 's not that it's to long but that it's not going to the bottom of the housing.
There is a ridge that they normally pop into at the bottom. If the old was bent it was not all the way down and the ridge filled up with crud. You should be able to feel the recess. I'd remove enough coolant to get to the bottom of the housing and clean the bottom well and see how the stat then goes in.

You say it's the original front cap. Still could have gone bad.
Also along with what was said about the water pump seal the stat housing cap can also have got old and if it leaks air in the coolant can still run into the overflow bottle. On my 85 when I would jack up the rear of the car I would hear a small gurgle once in a while. Turned out to be a very small crack in the stat cap seal letting air in. New cap and all was well.
IE just because the caps where good does not mean they still are.

[This message has been edited by Dodgerunner (edited 12-23-2009).]

quote Originally posted by Old Lar: You may not want a cooler temp thermostat. The engine's best performance is around 195F. Running at cooler temps, the ECM will make the car run richer and poorer fuel economy.

Watching the temperature gauge's reading continue to increase before the radiator fan kicks in can be disconcerting, but one fix for that is to get Rodney Dickman's 200^o-210^o radiator fan switch.

I did that after getting rid of my 160^o thermostat and replacing it with a stock-temperature, 195^o thermostat, and then using Rodney Dickman's 200^o-210^o radiator fan switch. The latter, instead of a stock radiator fan switch, keeps the engine temperature from reaching disconcertingly high levels. (Yes, I realize that with the stock fan switch, the fan isn't supposed to go on until the temperature reaches something like 235^o, but waiting for that moment to occur is too worrisome a wait for my tastes.)