Anyone ever hear of one of these?? Or anything about this shop?? http://www.precisionengine....e-engines/index.html In the future I want to stay with the 2.8 engine. However the one I have right now needs all the seals / gaskets replaced, leaking oil. These guys want $1800. Another shop near my house wants $1600 for a rebuilt engine with no mods. I don't want to upgrade to a S/C or Turbo either.

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It's a CAR, now drive it!!

http://community.webshots.c...rx32?vhost=community

I think they mean it's a 2.8L stroked to a 3.1L (only real difference between them is the stroke of the crank) You can stroke your stock 2.8L to a 3.1L easily. All you need is the crank and pistons. Everything else is the same.

As for 200hp, I would ask them what are the mods. It takes quite a bit of mods to get a 2.8L/3.1L/3.4L to 200hp.
When you call, ask what head work was done, what cam are they using, what is the compression ratio, and what intake and exhaust did they use?

200hp isn't all that unrealistic when measured from the crank (from a mild moded motor). It also most likely does not use the stock Fiero intake while those numbers were obtained...

not sure how they can claim them numbers.
while 200 HP's out of a 3.1 is not a huge deal - it is tho mighty mighty mighty tough to with Fiero Intake & Fiero exhaust
and, the motor the claim to sell is a Fiero GT replacement
as soon as you install it, it will be choked by Fiero intake & exhaust, and no longer make 200 HPs

edit - lol - someone beat me to it

[This message has been edited by Pyrthian (edited 10-08-2009).]

Just thought i'd ask. I guess i'll just be a vulture and either grab a built one from here (PFF) or ebay.

Thanks for the heads up

I'd really like to see how they came up with the 200HP figure. Because if the engine has a lot of go-fast goodies on it, it'll cost more than $1800.

[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 10-08-2009).]

quote Originally posted by ALJR: 200hp isn't all that unrealistic when measured from the crank (from a mild moded motor). It also most likely does not use the stock Fiero intake while those numbers were obtained...

I never said it was unrealistic, I've built a few 2.8L and 3.4L engines for performance and know what it takes to get power out of them.
I can tell you that you will not get 200hp from a "mildly modded" normally aspirated motor even "at the crank".
Aside from the Fiero intake and exhaust, The cast iron heads in stock form don't flow enough to get much over 175hp.
Hence why I would seriously ask what mods they did to the engine before I would buy one.

So just to be fair, I just Emailed them and asked for specific's on the engine. When (if) they reply, I will post their response.

[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 10-08-2009).]

quote Originally posted by Oreif: I never said it was unrealistic, I've built a few 2.8L and 3.4L engines for performance and know what it takes to get power out of them. I can tell you that you will not get 200hp from a "mildly modded" normally aspirated motor even "at the crank". Aside from the Fiero intake and exhaust, The cast iron heads in stock form don't flow enough to get much over 175hp. Hence why I would seriously ask what mods they did to the engine before I would buy one. So just to be fair, I just Emailed them and asked for specific's on the engine. When (if) they reply, I will post their response.

My comment was not directed towards you; it was just a general reply. Didn't mean for it to sound like I was questioning your expertise Also didn't mean for it to sound like you would defiantly get 200hp from a mildly moded motor, just that getting up there is possible...

quote Originally posted by ALJR: 200hp isn't all that unrealistic when measured from the crank (from a mild moded motor). It also most likely does not use the stock Fiero intake while those numbers were obtained...

Maybe they don't use the stock intake manifold, but unless they're using at least something like a Trueleo intake manifold on it, I don't see how they're obtaining 200 HP out of a 3.1L --- and particularly not at the overly cheap engine price they're citing.

Therefore, I agree with the following comments of Oreif, Pyrthian, and Blacktree, respectively, on this:

quote Originally posted by Oreif: As for 200hp, I would ask them what are the mods. It takes quite a bit of mods to get a 2.8L/3.1L/3.4L to 200hp. When you call, ask what head work was done, what cam are they using, what is the compression ratio, and what intake and exhaust did they use?

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: not sure how they can claim them numbers. while 200 HP's out of a 3.1 is not a huge deal - it is tho mighty mighty mighty tough to with Fiero Intake & Fiero exhaust

quote Originally posted by Blacktree: I'd really like to see how they came up with the 200HP figure. Because if the engine has a lot of go-fast goodies on it, it'll cost more than $1800.

Said considerably less charitably than my PFF colleagues have put it, until we have much more information on the engine builder's mystery cylinder heads, their mystery cam, their mystery compression rato, their mystery intake manifold, and their mystery headers that they used to obtain 200 HP out of a 3.1L...

1. I call BS.
   
2. Caveat emptor, NightMare Cruiser!
   

Accordingly, I think we'll all find the engine builder's responses to Oreif's questions exceptionally interesting:

quote Originally posted by Oreif: So just to be fair, I just Emailed them and asked for specific's on the engine. When (if) they reply, I will post their response.

If the engine builder can pull 200 HP out of 3.1L, I for one definitely would be interested in learning how they would do that --- not with an unlimited budget --- but at only the $1800 engine price they'd advertised.

quote Originally posted by project34: If the engine builder can pull 200 HP out of 3.1L, I for one definitely would be interested in learning how they would do that --- not with an unlimited budget --- but at only the $1800 engine price they'd advertised.

well - to be fair - it JUST the long block
no exhuast, no intake. there are not even valve covers.

the thing that gets me is the fact it is advertised as a Fiero GT replacement motor - and that implies it will have Fiero GT intake & exhaust placed on it - and we all know that 200HP's is NOT gonna happen, once the Fiero goodies are attached. 160 HPs is about as far as Fiero GT goodies will allow, without mods

I keep hearing " the fiero intake can't allow enough air" WHERE ? I see , in the intake ports of the heads, & the intake runners in the lower manifold, there are "bumps" that are probly there to promote "swirl" or direct the injector spray", BUT, Exactly WHERE is the obstruction that limits these manifolds?? Pictures would be great. I'm sure I'm not the only one wondering. Thanks.

quote Originally posted by Lou6t4gto: I keep hearing " the fiero intake can't allow enough air" WHERE ? I see , in the intake ports of the heads, & the intake runners in the lower manifold, there are "bumps" that are probly there to promote "swirl" or direct the injector spray", BUT, Exactly WHERE is the obstruction that limits these manifolds?? Pictures would be great. I'm sure I'm not the only one wondering. Thanks.

quote Originally posted by triker: After cutting one open, this is the worst restriction (57mm TB gasket0:

quote Originally posted by Lou6t4gto: I keep hearing " the fiero intake can't allow enough air" WHERE ? I see , in the intake ports of the heads, & the intake runners in the lower manifold, there are "bumps" that are probly there to promote "swirl" or direct the injector spray", BUT, Exactly WHERE is the obstruction that limits these manifolds?? Pictures would be great. I'm sure I'm not the only one wondering. Thanks.

Inside the upper intake plenum, just past the egr port, there is a considerable restriction... There are a bunch of photos on this forum, but I do not remember who posted them...

edit: Pyrthian beat me to it...

[This message has been edited by ALJR (edited 10-08-2009).]

so do they make a different upper plenum? one with less restrictions you could just bolt on. Not very mechanical, sorry.

quote Originally posted by kwaidonjin: so do they make a different upper plenum? one with less restrictions you could just bolt on. Not very mechanical, sorry.

Yes and no. Yes there are other stock GM plenums that flow better. An example would be the one on the 3.4L F-body cars. Problem is it requires modification to fit and the mod adds in the restriction. The mod consists of cutting part of the throat to clear the distributor of the Fiero. If you convert to DIS then it isn't a problem.

There are onlt two aftermarket intakes still being made. The Trueleo for fuel injected engines and Edelbrock for carb'd engines.
Still have not received a reply yet.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: well - to be fair - it JUST the long block no exhuast, no intake. there are not even valve covers. the thing that gets me is the fact it is advertised as a Fiero GT replacement motor - and that implies it will have Fiero GT intake & exhaust placed on it - and we all know that 200HP's is NOT gonna happen, once the Fiero goodies are attached. 160 HPs is about as far as Fiero GT goodies will allow, without mods

You bring up a good point about it being just the long block, Pyrthian.

In turn, that would seem to make that engine builder's 200 HP claim for a 3.1L even more difficult to believe.

Now I'm very curious to hear the engine builder's response to Oreif''s question of them regarding how they managed to get 200 HP out of a 3.1L --- especially since an honest answer would have to be dependent on only their mystery cylinder heads, their mystery cam, and their mystery compression rato --- and not the mystery intake manifold or mystery headers which you, Pyrthian, correctly pointed out --- wouldn't be included with the purchase of their $1800 "long block" in the first place.

It's just another retail come-on. For the naive and hopeful.

I am doing a stock piston, iron head build and aiming for 173 hp. Not 200.

But, even at that, with a fresh rebuild, I am porting the heads, adding a crank scraper, underdrive pulley, cam, full roller rockers, Cloyes timing set, long tube headers (33"), Offenhauser intake, 390 cfm carb., plus a decal on the air cleaner for +10 hp.

If this guy is selling strictly a long block, to be used with Fiero equipment, it is definitely a come-on.

Arn

I was watching this one also!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...0353970891&viewitem=

Why would 200hp be so hard? The stock 2.8s have 135-140HP

http://home.xnet.com/~paulv/MajorSpecs.htm

quote Originally posted by White88Formula: Why would 200hp be so hard? The stock 2.8s have 135-140HP http://home.xnet.com/~paulv/MajorSpecs.htm

In a word "flow". The stock 2.8L was designed very well to utilize the heads, cam, and intake. (seems they did lack a little on exhaust design) The problem is in order to get more power you need more flow. The cast iron heads will only flow enough air to support about 175hp, The intake (as seen above) has a restriction which reduces the ability of it to flow more than stock. The cam in the stock 2.8L is a balance of power and emissions. Thus the "emission" portion limits power a little. The exhaust manifolds and crossover pipe also have major restrictions. (Do a search on porting the stock exhaust manifolds for a 5-8hp gain) Even with replacing the exhaust and intake with better flowing versions you still have the cam and heads that will hamper your flow. So in order to get 200hp you need to do serious work to the heads, replace the cam, replace the intake, and replace the exhaust. It's not really "hard" but it is a lot more work than simple "bolt-ons". In terms of the Fiero 2.8L, the entire path needs to be opened up and a "long block" is only part of it.

quote Originally posted by NightMare Cruiser: I was watching this one also!! http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...0353970891&viewitem=

Has anyone ever heard of a "Holley HE cam" that is claimed in the Ebay ad?
As far as I know Holley doesn't make cams, let alone for a 60* V-6.
Assuming the "HE" stands for "high energy", If I recall that is a Comp Cams designation.
I wonder which Comp cam he used?

[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 10-09-2009).]

I actually called the manufacturer of that 3.1 a few months back and asked some specific questions as to how they were making their horsepower claims. In summary, you weren't going to get 200 hp out of their engine unless you upgraded some parts and had a lot of porting, etc done. He was at least honest on the phone that unless you could increase the air flow, you would not get the performance out of the engine. I believe he quoted me about another $1500 to get the advertised hp. I could be off a little on that, as I didn't take notes when I was talking to him. I figured by the time you invest $3300, there are better ways to go.

quote Originally posted by NightMare Cruiser: I was watching this one also!! http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...0353970891&viewitem=

quote Originally posted by Oreif: Has anyone ever heard of a "Holley HE cam" that is claimed in the Ebay ad? As far as I know Holley doesn't make cams, let alone for a 60* V-6.

My responses to your question and your statement above, Oreif, are "No," and "I agree," respectively.

Caveat emptor again, NightMare Cruiser.