My power locks work when the car is running, but don't when the key is off. I hear what sounds like a relay clicking from behind the passenger side of the dash around where the factory sub is. Anyone have a part number or pic of the offending part?

TIA Rick 88

Hey Rick,

Here is some info for you. First off is the wiring diagram for the power locks from the Haynes manual.



Here is a complete door harness from an 85 with power locks, windows and mirrors.

Labled

The only relay that I can find

And the only number I can find on the relay.


From what I can gleen from the Haynes manual, this should be the power lock relay as there is not a relay for the windows and the power mirrors are on thier own harness/switch.

The wiring diagram matches the wire's/colors of this relay I have here. It looks like the power locks get thier power from 2 sources - a 30 amp breaker from the ignition and a 25 amp fuse for the coutesy lights (do your interior lights work?). I have no idea as to the condition of this relay I have - it's out of an 85 with 31k. You are more than welcome to try it out before you spend money for a new one. I'll do some more digging to see if I can find the relay / part number / etc.

Pat

[This message has been edited by katatak (edited 08-26-2009).]

If you don't have the wiring diagram or the "component location view" page from the service manual, I can scan them in for you. They should work with the ignition off since power is provided through the "PWR Acc Circuit Breaker" (one of the small silver rectangular boxes plugged into the fuse panel), and the Ctsy/Lid Fuse, of which both are hot at all times. The Ctsy Fuse provides the power to the lock relay coils (DPDT relay), so if you hear the click, then it's most likely the load side of the relay isn't getting enough current to actuate the lock motors. The load side is powered by the PWR Acc circuit breaker. Perhaps the contacts in the circuit breaker or the relay are fouling. Perhaps with the engine running the alternator voltage of 14V is just enough to work, but not the 12V of the battery. You can test the circuit breaker by swapping it with the power window (WDO) circuit breaker to see if it makes a difference. If not, then the relay is close to the convenience center (the dinger) on the RH side of the passenger footwell. It has two connectors, so beware.

Edit: Rats... Katatak beat me to it.

[This message has been edited by Bloozberry (edited 08-26-2009).]

Somebody in MI got one of these relays kicking around? My relay's been broken.

quote Originally posted by katatak: Hey Rick, Here is some info for you. First off is the wiring diagram for the power locks from the Haynes manual. Here is a complete door harness from an 85 with power locks, windows and mirrors. Labled The only relay that I can find And the only number I can find on the relay. From what I can gleen from the Haynes manual, this should be the power lock relay as there is not a relay for the windows and the power mirrors are on thier own harness/switch. The wiring diagram matches the wire's/colors of this relay I have here. It looks like the power locks get thier power from 2 sources - a 30 amp breaker from the ignition and a 25 amp fuse for the coutesy lights (do your interior lights work?). I have no idea as to the condition of this relay I have - it's out of an 85 with 31k. You are more than welcome to try it out before you spend money for a new one. I'll do some more digging to see if I can find the relay / part number / etc. Pat Thanks again! I will try and get some time off. Do you know if the sub will have to come out to get to the relay?

Not sure if the sub needs to come out. I believe that the relay is behind the blue dingy thing that is mounted to the hvac housing - I think it's between the sub box and the hvac housing. Let me know when you have some time and I can come give you a hand.

Pat

quote Originally posted by katatak: Not sure if the sub needs to come out. I believe that the relay is behind the blue dingy thing that is mounted to the hvac housing - I think it's between the sub box and the hvac housing. Let me know when you have some time and I can come give you a hand. Pat

Interior lights work fine, just no locks unless the key is in the run position. I'll try to see if I can find it before I go into work this morning.

Ok Guys,

Pat graciously loaned me a replacement door lock relay. The sub needs to come out to see it. I replaced it and still have the same issue. With the key in the run position the locks work fine (well about as find as Fiero door locks work). I still have to push the lock buttom mutiple times to get a complete lock. With the key out, I just hear the relay working but no lock movement. Where do I check now? Would lubing the actuators be the issue? Inquiring minds want to know..............

Did you try swapping the power window relay and the power accessory relay around on the fuse panel as I suggested earlier?

Is everything plugged into the correct spot on the power distribution block, left side of pic.

quote Originally posted by Bloozberry: Did you try swapping the power window relay and the power accessory relay around on the fuse panel as I suggested earlier?

If I understand you correctly, I should swap the circuit breakers in the fuse box? I thought these either worked or the did not. I'll give it a try.

quote Originally posted by Rick 88: If I understand you correctly, I should swap the circuit breakers in the fuse box? I thought these either worked or the did not. I'll give it a try.

Yes, try swapping them. Sometimes the contacts on the load side of the relay get fouled-up from arcing. The carbon build up can prevent the full voltage from activating the circuit. As the carbon builds up, theoretically there will be a time when the battery voltage won't be enough to flow across the terminals, but the alternator with an additional 2.5V or so, may be enough to overcome the resistance of the fouled contacts.

quote Originally posted by Bloozberry: Yes, try swapping them. Sometimes the contacts on the load side of the relay get fouled-up from arcing. The carbon build up can prevent the full voltage from activating the circuit. As the carbon builds up, theoretically there will be a time when the battery voltage won't be enough to flow across the terminals, but the alternator with an additional 2.5V or so, may be enough to overcome the resistance of the fouled contacts.

Ok, I will give it a try tomorrow when I am off. How is the carbon build up on the relay affected by swapping the circuit breakers? Can the relay be disassembled and cleaned? Should I still lube the actuators, the still stick a little when pressing the lock button with the key in the run position.

quote Originally posted by Rick 88: Ok, I will give it a try tomorrow when I am off. How is the carbon build up on the relay affected by swapping the circuit breakers? Can the relay be disassembled and cleaned? Should I still lube the actuators, the still stick a little when pressing the lock button with the key in the run position.

Hey Rick,

Been thinking about this problem some. With the key off, and bumping the lock switch, can you "feel" if the actuator is trying to move the door lock. I ask because in the yellow 86 SE I had, it was kind of the same issue. I had to hit the lock button a couple times to get it to lock even with the car running and sometimes it would not unlock the door but I could feel the actuator "clicking" in the door. Ithink it is probably a combination of what Blooz is saying about voltage - not enough voltage with the key off and either weak or sticky actuators.

quote Originally posted by Rick 88: How is the carbon build up on the relay affected by swapping the circuit breakers?

One relay is for the power windows and one for the locks. If the problem goes away with the door locks after they're swapped, then you know the problem is with the relay. The relays may be cleanable, I haven't looked at them that closely to see if the metal cover will come off.

quote Originally posted by Bloozberry: One relay is for the power windows and one for the locks. If the problem goes away with the door locks after they're swapped, then you know the problem is with the relay. The relays may be cleanable, I haven't looked at them that closely to see if the metal cover will come off.

Ok, I will let you know tomorrow. The relay cover is crimped and has one soldered end. I guess it could be taken apart, but I would not know what to clean.