The previous owner of my 86 SE 2m4 said that the fuel gauge did not work properly. Right now, with the key off the gauge reads to the top far right, past the "F". And it remains there when I turn the key on. The car does not run right now (suspect fuel pump problems) so I am not sure where it is supposed to be or if it moves at all while running. I would like to fix the fuel gauge. How do I go about it?
Start with the basics 1st before you go to deep into it. change out your gauge itself. the fiero store charges I think like $90 but a good old junk yard one will do you just fine. Than (if you have a fuel pump problem) knock 2 bird out with one stone. Install a new fuel pump and install a new fuel level sending unit. BTW the way to tell if its your fuel pump that is the problem is turn the key to on but do not turn it over, You should hear a faint humming noise. This is your fuel pump priming that means its working at least. But check to see if its pumping at the right psi. Fuel pumps arnt that hard to do. I did one on my old 86 SE took me and a buddy of mine all of about an hour and a half to do. Good luck with your new fiero.
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08:06 PM
Mike Gonzalez Member
Posts: 5093 From: Colorado Springs, CO. USA Registered: Jul 2001
Interesting that the gauge is not working AND the fuel pump is not. they are both connected to the same 3 wire connector. It is near the center of the firewall from the right side passthrough straight down behind the heat shield. If you can locate that set of three wires look to see if they have been "tampered" with or damaged somehow.
I agree with Mike. To help locate the connector, it has a yellow shell. If that's not the problem, then post again and I'll walk you through troubleshooting the gauge before you replace it. Costs nothing if you have a multimeter.
Ok guys, here's an update...I went to AutoZone and bought a new fuel pump and filter ($88.), unfortunately they do not carry AC Delco (in Galt, CA). I replaced every fuse and the 2 circuit breakers, just in case. All of the fusable links look good too. Then, I finally found someone to help me get that fuel tank out. When we took the fuel pump out of the tank; we bench checked it. And it finally did come on. So, it must be something between the fuel pump and ?, because the pump did not come on before. My friend tells me that the fuel pump is running backwards (??) So, he switched some wires around and now it works correctly. But, when we put the pump back inside the tank, it doesn't work. ...well that was 2 days ago...my car is still jacked up in my driveway, and my "helper" gave up because he couldn't figure it out. So, looks like it is just me, again. So, now what? First thing is, I need someone to explain to me (plain and simply) how I use the Multimeter that I bought. Because I am sure that I am going to need to start checking these wires. And, I need to ask if there is there a way to check to see if the relay switches are good? Where is the oil pressure switch? and can I check it? .... (Boy,...I can't wait until this car is up and running...)........ and thanks everyone.
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04:11 AM
Mike Gonzalez Member
Posts: 5093 From: Colorado Springs, CO. USA Registered: Jul 2001
Wish I would have seen this when you first posted. What you describe is typically caused by having the car sit for a length of time (like around a year or more with some fuel in the tank but not empty or full. The fuel separates and it begins to corrode the metal of the tank from the inside out. Normally this corrosion also attacks the fuel sending unit rendering it inop. The usual indication is a gas gauge that shows full above the "F" on the gauge. The fuel pump goes out fairly soon after as it gets clogged from the gunk trying to run through it. The strainer also becomes clogged and in both of my cases, it starts to disintegrate also allowing larger particles into the pump inlet.
When you lowered the fuel tank did you notice any orange or brown rust color at all? If so, you will need to clean the rust out of the tank one way or the other. I found out that flushing it out with water was ok for about 4 years then my fuel pump failed because of clogging again. This time I cleaned the rust out much better and I expect it to last at least another 5 years or to the life of the car anyway.
If your tank was clean and pretty inside with no hint of corrosion or rust at all, then disregard everything I typed above and check your fuel relay. It should be in the engine bay somewhere but I don't know exactly where on a 4cyl car.
Charlie
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02:15 AM
cptsnoopy Member
Posts: 2587 From: phoenix, AZ, USA Registered: Jul 2003
Ok guys, here's an update...I went to AutoZone and bought a new fuel pump and filter ($88.), unfortunately they do not carry AC Delco (in Galt, CA). I replaced every fuse and the 2 circuit breakers, just in case. All of the fusable links look good too. Then, I finally found someone to help me get that fuel tank out. When we took the fuel pump out of the tank; we bench checked it. And it finally did come on. So, it must be something between the fuel pump and ?, because the pump did not come on before. My friend tells me that the fuel pump is running backwards (??) So, he switched some wires around and now it works correctly. But, when we put the pump back inside the tank, it doesn't work. ...well that was 2 days ago...my car is still jacked up in my driveway, and my "helper" gave up because he couldn't figure it out. So, looks like it is just me, again. So, now what? First thing is, I need someone to explain to me (plain and simply) how I use the Multimeter that I bought. Because I am sure that I am going to need to start checking these wires. And, I need to ask if there is there a way to check to see if the relay switches are good? Where is the oil pressure switch? and can I check it? .... (Boy,...I can't wait until this car is up and running...)........ and thanks everyone.
Please verify for us if you put the new pump in the tank or the old one back in? The old pump may have worked on the bench but that does not mean that it is a usable pump. If you do not know the history of the old pump, then it is best to toss it in the garbage. When you install the new pump, it may require some wiring as they generally are setup to work with several different connectors for different cars. If you manage to find an AC Delco pump then you should be able to just plug and play. There is a strainer sock that presses on the bottom of the pump, this is a required part and must be new with the new pump. If there is not a strainer sock, your pump will most certainly fail before it's time. If your tank is/was corroded and that caused the fuel sender to fail then you can either try to fix the fuel level sender or replace it with one from the Fierostore.com. It is possible if you are very, very careful to clean the contacts of the fuel sender and get it working. I was able to fix one of mine, the other had an minor accident and was ruined...
In summary,
If your fuel tank is/was corroded, you most likely do not have problems with anything but the fuel sender and the pump that was in the tank when you got the car.
If your fuel tank was not corroded, then you may have a bad fuel relay along with a bad oil pressure sender and are not getting power to the pump.
I truly suspect that it is the first possibility.
Please let us know.
Also, it would help a lot if you could post a picture of your ohm meter so we can tell you exactly how to plug the wires into it and what settings to set before touching the wire leads to electrical parts on your car. Also be very, very careful when using the ohms setting, if you accidentally touch a connection with voltage across it, you can ruin your new ohm meter.
If you do not know how to post pics, please let us know.
How do I send a pic with my post? I got a pic ready. It is a small cheap yellow Pocket Electronic Tester, made by Actron. #CP7848 I am going to use the new fuel pump and filter. The tank isn't really rusty. What do I use to clean it with, and how? How do I check to see if it is a relay switch or fuel sender? I'll be waiting for your reply, then I will get to work on it tonite; as soon as I get off work. Thanks!
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08:20 PM
Indiana_resto_guy Member
Posts: 7158 From: Shelbyville, IN USA Registered: Jul 2000
If the fuel pump runs out of the car testing and not in the car the problem is the car not the pump. Check the fuse and connections as well as the ground and the fuel pump relay. If you still have the tank out you could possibly get the fuel gauge sender working as well.
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10:47 PM
cptsnoopy Member
Posts: 2587 From: phoenix, AZ, USA Registered: Jul 2003
If the fuel pump runs out of the car testing and not in the car the problem is the car not the pump. Check the fuse and connections as well as the ground and the fuel pump relay. If you still have the tank out you could possibly get the fuel gauge sender working as well.
I wish it were that simple but it ain't. You don't know if the pump is good or not. (assuming we are talking about the old pump) If they are saying the new pump ran on the bench but not in the car then yes but that is not how I interpreted their post.
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11:10 PM
PFF
System Bot
cptsnoopy Member
Posts: 2587 From: phoenix, AZ, USA Registered: Jul 2003
Here is a screen shot of your thread on Pennock's Fiero Forum. Near the bottom of the page (I circled it in red) is a button you can click on to download "Pennocks Image Poster" You can go to that page and it tells you what to do. There is a link near the bottom of that page that takes you to an instruction manual. That is what I am using to post this pic.
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11:16 PM
cptsnoopy Member
Posts: 2587 From: phoenix, AZ, USA Registered: Jul 2003
The upper left quadrant of the selector will select DCV. For most of the checking you will be doing you should select 50. This allows you to check for Direct Current Voltage from 0 to 50 volts. You will be looking for approximately 10 to 14 volts when checking for voltage to the pump. I am pretty sure you can check the ALDL connector that is located next to the cigarette lighter under the black plastic trim panel on the front of the center arm rest.
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11:24 PM
cptsnoopy Member
Posts: 2587 From: phoenix, AZ, USA Registered: Jul 2003
This is the fuel pump I replaced earlier this month. It is out of my 86GT and it failed after 4 years because my tank was rusty/corroded on the inside and I did not clean it out good enough. Notice the dark brown rust color of the fuel pump strainer sock? It is full of rust particles clogging it up. If your tank had anything other than nice shiny metal inside, this could be your problem. It is possible that the previous owner had already pulled the tank and cleaned it up but did not fix the fuel sending unit.
[img][/img]
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11:46 PM
Aug 30th, 2009
cptsnoopy Member
Posts: 2587 From: phoenix, AZ, USA Registered: Jul 2003
This is the ALDL connector mentioned a couple of posts up. It is next to the cigarette lighter behind the black plastic trim plate.
If you have your ohm meter black wire touching the ground terminal (lower left in the pic) and your red wire touching the fuel pump terminal (upper right in pic) and your ohm meter is set to 50 DCV you should see some voltage (approx 10 to 14 volts) on the ohm meter during the first 2 to 3 seconds after turning the key from "off" to "run". If you do not see this voltage during the short time after turning the key to run then there is probably an issue with your electrical system. The fuel tank and or fuel pump does not need to be in the car to check this. Please post what you find out.
Thanks
Charlie
[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 08-30-2009).]
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12:08 AM
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
Here's what I done since my last post: (of course, I had to recruit a new helper, since my last one couldn't fix it and ran and hid) And yes, the above pic is just like my OhmMeter! Ok, the NEW fuel pump and the NEW filter are installed in the fuel tank - the tank is not rusty - fuel tank is bolted back up - 3 wire connector is connected - AutoZone had only 1 fuel relay, I bought it out it in (and it was tried in alll 3 postitions: left, middle, right) - turned the key on and .....nothing. The fuel pump is silent. The car does Nothing! (as I scream and pull my hair out!) Then, I re-checked each fuse with light tester--all good, I am getting 2 more relays asap -- and as Charlie suggested, I used my Meter on the ALDL: black to ground and red to fuel pump terminal with meter set at 50 VDC- I did get movement on the meter but it was higher than 10-14--but it did move, so that is good, right? Ok, now what?
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06:18 AM
Rolling Thunder Member
Posts: 1244 From: College Station, TX Registered: Aug 2008
Anyone know where I can get a new sending unit besides the Fiero Store? Anyone buy the one from the Fiero Store and see the manufacturer's name on the box? I'm sure I can get it from the manufacturer for much cheaper.
Here's what I done since my last post: (of course, I had to recruit a new helper, since my last one couldn't fix it and ran and hid) And yes, the above pic is just like my OhmMeter! Ok, the NEW fuel pump and the NEW filter are installed in the fuel tank - the tank is not rusty - fuel tank is bolted back up - 3 wire connector is connected - AutoZone had only 1 fuel relay, I bought it out it in (and it was tried in alll 3 postitions: left, middle, right) - turned the key on and .....nothing. The fuel pump is silent. The car does Nothing! (as I scream and pull my hair out!) Then, I re-checked each fuse with light tester--all good, I am getting 2 more relays asap -- and as Charlie suggested, I used my Meter on the ALDL: black to ground and red to fuel pump terminal with meter set at 50 VDC- I did get movement on the meter but it was higher than 10-14--but it did move, so that is good, right? Ok, now what?
So it sounds like you had 12+ volts on the aldl pump connector as long as you where on the G pin. That would seem to indicate you have power that far. If the pump is not running then either there are connectors not making or the pump is not good. Did the connector behind the engine on the fire wall get plugged back in or all the way? It's usually a yellow three wire connector. I'd check it first.
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10:57 AM
jetman Member
Posts: 7805 From: Sterling Heights Mich Registered: Dec 2002
A bump back to first page in hopes that we can get this one running.
My 88-coupe has a 3-wire connector exiting out of the main wiring harness on the passenger side of the firewall that connects to the fuel pump wiring connector.
Fuel pump wire colors are black, purple and olive.
Main 3-wire connector colors are black, pink and tan.
Black to black Purple to pink Olive to tan.
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07:26 PM
Sep 4th, 2009
jetman Member
Posts: 7805 From: Sterling Heights Mich Registered: Dec 2002
LadyFiero86SE, any luck in getting it running yet?
quote
Originally posted by LadyFiero86SE: AutoZone had only 1 fuel relay, I bought it out it in (and it was tried in alll 3 postitions: left, middle, right) - turned the key on and .....nothing.
YES !!! IT'S ALIVE !! IT RUNS!! Thanks everyone that posted and helped me, since I first got here. I'm not exactly sure if it was the 3 new relays, new fuses/circuit breakers or the new fuel pump and filter, or the loose wire we found, or a combination of all of them. I love driving this car ! But, I already know that this car is gonna cost me a fortune... inside and out, both need a lot of work! My fuel gauge works, now. First, I need to check if I need to replace the master cylinder--the clutch is very hard to shift. I can't even get it to go into R. (I will check the fluid first) I hope it is not the tranny! and of course, now that I know it runs- I'm gonna get it tuned up Sat. Gotta go-gonna go for a quick ride (...as I drive off, long, blonde hair whipping in the wind.)
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04:29 AM
jetman Member
Posts: 7805 From: Sterling Heights Mich Registered: Dec 2002
Your shift problem is a typical Fiero hydraulic clutch problem. It's due to air in the clutch system from the heat deteriorating the seals in the system. Mainly the slave but also the master. Since I'm guessing it's an 86 does it have a 4sp or a 5sp? There are lots of post on the clutch problems. If your realy lucky, bleeding the air out might help but if the seals are bad the air will be back. Look up doing a gravity bleed on the system and try that if the bleeder on the slave is free and see where you get first.
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08:53 AM
Fierobsessed Member
Posts: 4782 From: Las Vegas, NV Registered: Dec 2001
Has anyone ever considered, or sucsessfully integrated a different vehicles sender into a Fiero's tank?
I have two S10 Sender units in my garage, and they look like they might fit somehow. Both had the noisy S10 Pump problem. the fuel level sender on these units is a really nice design, probably last forever. Also, they are a submerged pump design, having their pump units within a plastic cup so to speak.
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10:04 AM
PFF
System Bot
Sep 6th, 2009
Fierobsessed Member
Posts: 4782 From: Las Vegas, NV Registered: Dec 2001
Has anyone ever considered, or sucsessfully integrated a different vehicles sender into a Fiero's tank?
I have two S10 Sender units in my garage, and they look like they might fit somehow. Both had the noisy S10 Pump problem. the fuel level sender on these units is a really nice design, probably last forever. Also, they are a submerged pump design, having their pump units within a plastic cup so to speak.
I have not done it but if it is calibrated to 90 ohms like the stock Fiero one, why not? Please let us know how it works out.
Charlie
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09:06 PM
Sep 7th, 2009
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
