Ok i'm going to be runing the 272H crane cam and i was told i should not use the stock timeing chain but to run the double roller timing chain? What should i use? and Could i put a SBC cam button in the 3.4 PR motor to keep from buying the double roller?

Please explain and help me thanks

depends on how strong them valvesprings are

bump for some other input for ya

If you're also using new Crane springs with that cam, do check spring heights carefully. Crane's QC has sucked in recent years. If you dont check it and have few that are too high, they will wear out the cam fast whereas Crane's cam heat treating has not been that great either.

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I was told a few years ago by an engine builder that any single chain will streatch on startup and run while a double will not so my thinking was to keep it tight without room for slop. Have an extra new one if interested.

idk what the springs are they are the performance springs and locks that A.R.I sells. And i haven't got an answer on this Q yet so.


CAN I RUN A SBC CAM BUTTON FOR MY 3.4

Well i just put a new one in my 3800 for s&g but I can tell you for a fact that the factory Corvettes that have won Le Mans for the past who knows how many years run a single roller chain. I personally know the engine builder from k-tech. shhhh.....

^^^ so what your saying is i dont' need a double roller?

I am using the stock chain
I have had the 272 cam
and I am using the Crane Springs
I have the motor apart yearly - and have not seen any issues

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: I am using the stock chain I have had the 272 cam and I am using the Crane Springs I have the motor apart yearly - and have not seen any issues

ok that well if i can find a double roller for cheap i'll get it but if not i won't worrie about it

a "double roller for cheap", remember, not all "double rollers" are made the same. You get what you pay for, sometimes you don't even get good if you Do pay alot !

quote Originally posted by Lou6t4gto: a "double roller for cheap", remember, not all "double rollers" are made the same. You get what you pay for, sometimes you don't even get good if you Do pay alot !

by cheap i mean maybe someonf on PFF had bought one and never ended up using it. you got a pm

you cannot compare a race motor to a street driven motor. they build perfect motors, run a race, and then rebuild them.
that vette motor was never raced again after lemans till returned to all new components. stupid comparison, and useless info. your "professional" rebuilder should know better than to say that.

if you don't know what your valve springs are, then you don't need to know if you need it, as you haven't got a clue of how critical matching your top engine parts are. it really is that simple.

buttons are only used on motors that tend to walk the cam. as far as I know that is not a problem with 60 degree v6's.
they are 2 seperate issues, as a double roller will stop cam walk, but since there is no cam button for a 3.4 with a 2.8 timng chain cover, kinda makes it a moot point.

the chain will last longer on a high lift cam with heavy valve springs. (which is likely your case)
it will not rev as high as a lower lift cam with a higher ratio rocker. (the chain has littel to do with this)
if you did not port out the heads and rework thie intake, you are not going to be close to maximising performance of your cam.

if you want accurate advice, state ALL the mods being done.throwing that cam on a stock 3.4 with stock intakes and exhaust manifolds form the fiero and a stock 2.8 head is basically a waste of time and effort.

quote Originally posted by tjm4fun: you cannot compare a race motor to a street driven motor. they build perfect motors, run a race, and then rebuild them. that vette motor was never raced again after lemans till returned to all new components. stupid comparison, and useless info. your "professional" rebuilder should know better than to say that. if you don't know what your valve springs are, then you don't need to know if you need it, as you haven't got a clue of how critical matching your top engine parts are. it really is that simple. buttons are only used on motors that tend to walk the cam. as far as I know that is not a problem with 60 degree v6's. they are 2 seperate issues, as a double roller will stop cam walk, but since there is no cam button for a 3.4 with a 2.8 timng chain cover, kinda makes it a moot point. the chain will last longer on a high lift cam with heavy valve springs. (which is likely your case) it will not rev as high as a lower lift cam with a higher ratio rocker. (the chain has littel to do with this) if you did not port out the heads and rework thie intake, you are not going to be close to maximising performance of your cam. if you want accurate advice, state ALL the mods being done.throwing that cam on a stock 3.4 with stock intakes and exhaust manifolds form the fiero and a stock 2.8 head is basically a waste of time and effort.

i think my performance spings are at 105lbs and i'm running the Crane 272H cam and i have P&P heads for my 3.4 with stock valves in them and i'm also running fogrurml roller rockers 1.52

[This message has been edited by BabyVet (edited 06-23-2009).]

bump

if you can as you say get one for free, definately use it. I would almost say use one regardless. while the roller rockers reduce some strain, it isn't the big factor. the springs sound about right, but PLEASE be sure to check that the spring seats are set properly so you do not bind the springs. with that .474 lift and 1.52 rockers you will compress the spring .72 inches, so be sure that there is no bind there. better to overcut the seats and shim them up, also a good idea to set all compression tension the same. you need to use a tool to verify that, most machine shops do that when setting a head up, it is a guage type torque meter using a fulcrom off the stud to check that the force required to compress each spring is the same. usually the low ones are shimmed up to match the higher ones, then the clearance is double checked.

quote Originally posted by tjm4fun: if you can as you say get one for free, definately use it. I would almost say use one regardless. while the roller rockers reduce some strain, it isn't the big factor. the springs sound about right, but PLEASE be sure to check that the spring seats are set properly so you do not bind the springs. with that .474 lift and 1.52 rockers you will compress the spring .72 inches, so be sure that there is no bind there. better to overcut the seats and shim them up, also a good idea to set all compression tension the same. you need to use a tool to verify that, most machine shops do that when setting a head up, it is a guage type torque meter using a fulcrom off the stud to check that the force required to compress each spring is the same. usually the low ones are shimmed up to match the higher ones, then the clearance is double checked.

I didn't say i could get one for free just cheaper and yes A.R.I set it all up but i'ma double check everything with the gauge thats for sure!! it will be right we it goes together

quote Originally posted by tjm4fun: if you can as you say get one for free, definately use it. I would almost say use one regardless. while the roller rockers reduce some strain, it isn't the big factor. the springs sound about right, but PLEASE be sure to check that the spring seats are set properly so you do not bind the springs. with that .474 lift and 1.52 rockers you will compress the spring .72 inches, so be sure that there is no bind there. better to overcut the seats and shim them up, also a good idea to set all compression tension the same. you need to use a tool to verify that, most machine shops do that when setting a head up, it is a guage type torque meter using a fulcrom off the stud to check that the force required to compress each spring is the same. usually the low ones are shimmed up to match the higher ones, then the clearance is double checked.

ya ya - I've wrecked enough cams because of this.
the usual springs people get have an install height of 1.710"
get a dowel cut to that height, and verify that EVERY spring has at least that once installed.

back to your first questions. Cam button, I don't know, I wondered the same thing.
Now for the double roller timing Chain. First off, NEED?, you don't NEED any performance parts in an engine.

a double roller timing chain, about $100, is pre stretched, actually has rollers on it (like small bearings), can be set 4 degrees advanced or retarded
FYI stock is not a roller chain at all. But if money's tight, at least get a new one, as your old one I'm sure has some slack in it.


More info on the double roller:
Quote from summit racing:
Cloyes Original True Roller timing sets feature full roller-action Renold double-row roller chains, made from high-strength steel for superior durability. The cam sprockets are made from heat-treated cast or ductile iron, while the crank sprockets are machined from heat-treated, high-carbon steel for strength. With three keyways for adjustability (4 degrees advanced, 4 degrees retarded, and normal), Cloyes Original True Roller timing sets are hand-matched to ensure precise chain tension


Some pics of mine

quote Originally posted by sardonyx247: in the thread 3.4L pushrod Swap (lots of pics) My double rollor timing set. The chain is pre-stretched, so no worry about slack later on. each link has a rollor on it, so the teeth roll on the chain and are not just sitting on the chain.

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"DRIVE IT LIKE A FIERO"
'84 Fiero, engine to be determined
'87Blue GT 3.4L Swap Completed!!!!!!!! Boosted!!!!!!!
^^^^ Now in the Construction Zone^^^^
Las Vegas Fiero Club
Fiero Road Club Of Northern Nevada

Vett,

The 60D site lists a double roller, but it requires the crank be machined to accept it and I'm almost positive that any other double chain will require the same machining.
I listed some of the add along with some links.

http://wot-tech.com/shop/31...-chain/prod_131.html

Product Information
Double Roller timing chain for roller cams (3100 3400 and 3500 engines). Made by TCE from billet steel, induction hardened and matched with the cloyes timing chain. Sold as a set with chain. Adjustable +6, +3, 0, -3, -6 degrees cam timing.
These are not a drop in deal, and require crank modification to fit. They are necessary for high output or high compression motors, as we have had several people running 10.5:1+ with stretched chains in well under 2000 miles. This is the only double roller made for the 60V6 roller cams. Please check this thread for more information
http://60degreev6.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40327
Be the first to review this product!

As far as my "stupid comparison" I believe I stated I have a double roller on my street motor. I was just making a point that they are not entirely needed and didn't compare anything, just shared some info. If I was going to make a bet that I could put 250,000 miles on an engine, it would have a double roller. They have more side plates so they take longer to stretch, period. More short term performance, quality single roller.

quote Originally posted by Scoobysruvenge: Vett, The 60D site lists a double roller, but it requires the crank be machined to accept it and I'm almost positive that any other double chain will require the same machining. I listed some of the add along with some links. http://wot-tech.com/shop/31...-chain/prod_131.html Product Information Double Roller timing chain for roller cams (3100 3400 and 3500 engines). Made by TCE from billet steel, induction hardened and matched with the cloyes timing chain. Sold as a set with chain. Adjustable +6, +3, 0, -3, -6 degrees cam timing. These are not a drop in deal, and require crank modification to fit. They are necessary for high output or high compression motors, as we have had several people running 10.5:1+ with stretched chains in well under 2000 miles. This is the only double roller made for the 60V6 roller cams. Please check this thread for more information http://60degreev6.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40327 Be the first to review this product!

That may be the case for a 3x00 motor, but the chain I have IS a drop in, for a 3.4L camaro engine. So no machining needed.

------------------
"DRIVE IT LIKE A FIERO"
'84 Fiero, engine to be determined
'87Blue GT 3.4L Swap Completed!!!!!!!! Boosted!!!!!!!
^^^^ Now in the Construction Zone^^^^
Las Vegas Fiero Club
Fiero Road Club Of Northern Nevada

quote Originally posted by sardonyx247: That may be the case for a 3x00 motor, but the chain I have IS a drop in, for a 3.4L camaro engine. So no machining needed.

I have a camaro 3.4 and from A.R.I say's that if you put a roller chain on it you MIGHT have to do some clearenceing on the damper to make it all fit!!! I have a good line up on a double roller so i'm going to be putting that on for sure!!

I used a Moroso small block cam button and also the roller bearing behind the cam bearing to control cam motion in my 2.8 rebuild almost 10 years ago. There has been no significant wear on the timing cover. The machine shop needed the cam, the bearing, the button and the timing cover to set it up. The real advantage of this setup is timing variation is reduced due to cam walk.

Rolland

quote Originally posted by 87convert: I used a Moroso small block cam button and also the roller bearing behind the cam bearing to control cam motion in my 2.8 rebuild almost 10 years ago. There has been no significant wear on the timing cover. The machine shop needed the cam, the bearing, the button and the timing cover to set it up. The real advantage of this setup is timing variation is reduced due to cam walk. Rolland

Ok thanks and thats awesome i'm going to be getting a double roller and doing the cam buttom thing also!!!