I touch on this in another thread but I haven't really gotten an answer, and I need to find out before I go any further in my swap. Please help!


I spoke with a CA BAR Referee yesterday and he told me that he didn't think I would be able to do the swap because I had to use the Bonneville exhaust routing (until I got to the CAT, then I could start my bends), meaning it would stick out past the bumper, and not be legal. I told him that I heard the cat just had to be the same distance from the manifolds, and he said yes but it also has to have the same routing as the Bonneville... Exactly the same.

Also Bonnevilles/GTP's/etc.. have a fuel pressure sensor in the gas tanks as part of the EVAP unit, correct? He said I would need this as well.. Has anyone needed to deal with this?

I know people have done it, what did you need to do, what were your experiences?
thanks
- James

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Seek the advice and wisdom of Chris West at WCF, he can answer all of these questions for you for the price of a phone call - 661-822-8111. He has very little time to be on the forum as such the phone is the best way to get ahold of him.

This is a tough question to answer. There are many 3800s registered in the state of California legally. The hardest part is the BAR. Since there are no laws on the books or anything in writing that I can find, each station has a different interpretation of what to do. I would try a different BAR station. As far as I can tell luck has more to do with it that logic or laws.

I would suggest finding a different referee. It's part law, and part art. The laws are deliberately vague to be open for interpretation, and the kindness of the Bar examiner.

I also recommend Rickady88GT for a reference. He has a CA legal shortstar and a lot of valuable insight into the process.

Also, don't give up:

I know of at least 1 3800SC with a Manual transmission! that is California C.A.R.B. legal. Where there is a will, there is a way.

Tell us more? Are you doing a 5-speed? Automatic? How far along the swap are you? Ya' got pictures? McKnizzle's info is your best next step.

Cordially,
Kevin

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/099637.html

My build thread ^
I haven't started the swap yet, have the engine, trans, pcm, harness, converting it from a 4-spd to an auto, still have to make the mounts and get the harness done, make axles, etc..

How would I go about getting in touch with a different Ref? I called and they had this guy call me back, and I'm supposed to go to the ref closest to me, correct?
I'm starting to get deterred from trying to do this swap in CA. I don't want to go Auto, I want to use a 4-spd (I wanted to autox the car). All these CA rules are taking the fun out of it. I cant just do the swap the way I want it done. I cant clean up the engine bay by removing smog stuff, and re-doing the fuel lines. Sucks. Sorry, just a little rant.

You can goto any Ref. The first pass is the hardest. I would run everything stock (with the Auto) though the Ref until you get the sticker. After that....

Jaybeezi - Chris West at WCF has spent over 12 years dealing with CARB to finally have his 3800 swap parts E.O. certified and smog legal, like i said, not to be a dic* or anything but CALL CHRIS WEST - THE FORCE IS STRONG WITH HIM, HE CAN TELL YOU EVERYTHING YOU WANT TO KNOW, DON'T BE FEARED

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Recanizin' Flat-Buns Since 2001

Eric Nelson
Internet Sales Manager
Power Ford Valencia
nelsone@autonation.com

quote Originally posted by jaybeezi: I don't want to go Auto, I want to use a 4-spd (I wanted to autox the car). All these CA rules are taking the fun out of it. I cant just do the swap the way I want it done. I cant clean up the engine bay by removing smog stuff, and re-doing the fuel lines. Sucks. Sorry, just a little rant.

I feel your pain. From what I understand you can't use a 4 speed if the engine was never offered that way from the manufacturer. That pretty much rules out the 4 speed on the 3800. I would have to find a work around because I would hate the auto.

paddle shift

I am getting a 3800sc/auto swapped into my 87 fiero. It is being done in Riverside. The guy who is helping me builds lambo's out of fieros. he recommended me to get it registered first lol... but my current engine may be damaged because it is leaking oil. Therefore, i believe a newer engine swap would be best.
Does anybody know where a BAR ref is located at?? Do i go 2 them first, or 2 a smog shop? My mom SUPPOSIVELY knows a smog shop that can smog my car illegaly for the right money... will that avoid the bar ref? Maybe I can negotiate something with the bar ref if that does not work...

I was West Coast Fiero all day today and none of you called!

Just call Chris at 661.822.8111 and get the straight answer from him or just keep worrying needlessly.

Just do it his way and get your CARB EO with a minimum of hassle.Do it legal - do it right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Regards,

David

[This message has been edited by D2inDFW (edited 04-18-2009).]

quote Originally posted by D2inDFW: I was West Coast Fiero all day today and none of you called! Just call Chris at 661.822.8111 and get the straight answer from him or just keep worrying needlessly. Just do it his way and get your CARB EO with a minimum of hassle.Do it legal - do it right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Regards, David

haha, I know, I called the other day and there was no answer. I'll call again on monday, unless they are there on sunday...

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Jay:

Chris will be there on Sunday working on this: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/099446.html

Are going to be at the BBQ?

Regards,

David

Called, no answer, left a message.


I'm trying to go, but would probably only be able to make it out on Sunday as I work mon-sat

[This message has been edited by jaybeezi (edited 04-19-2009).]

I had a chance to talk to Jay today while I was at WCF. Chris was busy with the Turbo Aurora.

Could you just say real quick in this thread if Chris West managed to get a manual transimission 3800SC E.O. certified?
Will save you tons of phone calls. :-p

I guess the real question is - how lucky do you feel?

A manual trans on 3800SC is not allowed. Now a couple of people have pulled it off but do you think you can do the same?

Do you feel lucky? If the ref is paying attention, odds are extremely high they will reject it. Logic will not apply, only the rules.

You also risk the tech rejecting it during smog. You get the ref to accept it, you get certified, you go in for a semi-annual smog check and the tech knows it's not allowed and rejects it (and potentially flags it). You jump up and down and say "But the ref blessed it, you have to accept it". No they don't. And then they will call the BAR office get them to reiterate the rules and you go home frustrated.

Feel lucky?

I've had this discussion (and others) with the main BAR offices in Sac and if they knew a ref was blessing a manual on a 3800SC (or any engine that didn't come with a manual trans in CA) the ref would be no more. Now maybe the rules have changed (very unlikely).

That is what you have to fight. Your choice. Frankly, it's not worth the potential headache.

[This message has been edited by TK (edited 04-20-2009).]

Not yet, but still considering it!

quote Originally posted by Austrian Import: Could you just say real quick in this thread if Chris West managed to get a manual transimission 3800SC E.O. certified? Will save you tons of phone calls. :-p

Not yet, but still considering it!

My S* is smog legal. When I got the sticker, I the ref told me that he wold have the sticker revocked if I changed anything. So EVEN if you do get a sticker for a transplant, that does not prevent a smog shop from "flaging" your car for any reason and sending you back to the ref for a "clearification". 3800's never had a manual option in front wheel drives, that would be a "red flag" to any smog shop sense it is not an option in the computer when they set it up for the test.

quote Originally posted by Rickady88GT: 3800's never had a manual option in front wheel drives, that would be a "red flag" to any smog shop sense it is not an option in the computer when they set it up for the test.

Good point, Rick!

Regards,

David

Didn't get a chance to call back mon or today, got a bad sore throat. Will call in a couple days hopefully.

Any updates on Chris' progress on 3800SC manual certification?

Anything new on WCF 3800 SC manuals?

This is why I left that friggin pinko-commy state 2 years ago, and will never look back. That 3800 with the stick will put out FAR fewer emissions than the stock 2.8, yet it's deemed evil by the tree-huggers. I might have to move to Idaho or Texas someday if they keep up the BS here in WA too..

All hail the iron fist of government!

I bought a 3800 SC from Allen a few years ago (not the one you have now BTW) After talking to the BAR and the refs I decided to go with the 3.4L DOHC motor with the 91-93 ECM, these are smog legal due to the fact that the manuals were offered 91-93. If I were you I would go auto with paddle shift.

Good luck.

hah, I'm actually looking at moving to Oregon right now. No smog in the area I'm going!

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If you check county laws, Mariposa for some reason doesn't have the california smog laws like the rest of the state. Really bizarre. So you could always get some small parcel of land there and do whatever you wanted to your Fiero. lol

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1987 Fiero GT/auto with Mr. Mikes leather seats.
1987 Fiero GT/ 5-speed

thats why i would rather move to florida rather than cali. and i think florida has no emissions check like here in oklahoma.

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First LX9 Fiero GT, 1987 | My Fiero Fuel Economy | MPG Display for OBD I
Youtube Videos of My GT | 87 GT Inside Test Run | 3500 Fiero GT Test Run 01
3500 Fiero GT Test Run 02 | 3500 Fiero GT Test Run 03 | 3500 Fiero GT Test Run 04
If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem
Fiero's are people too. We pay just as much attention to them, if not more than our loved ones
screw paying those bastards. im not going to become rich by paying for things.....

quote Originally posted by americasfuture2k: thats why i would rather move to florida rather than cali. and i think florida has no emissions check like here in oklahoma.

There's a joke in there waiting to happen!

The problem is before you move into one of those counties I believe the car has to pass smog. I may be mistaken but I think ya do.

quote Originally posted by americasfuture2k: thats why i would rather move to florida rather than cali. and i think florida has no emissions check like here in oklahoma.

I hope I am wrong on this but soon it wont matter what State you are in. They will all be forced by the new CEO of GM ( Pres. Husane ) to conform to Federal smog standards like those used in CA.

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