this statement doesn't make sense to me.. If the horsepower (and torque) is higher, it will win.. a 95hp car isn't gunna outrun a 140hp car... Now, perhaps a 2.5 with the 4.10 4spd could outrun a 2.8 with the auto trans, but not for very long.
Incorrect. Horsepower means nothing. Horsepower to WEIGHT ratio is everything.
I can make a 95HP car beat a 1000hp car in a track race and drag race. It's how a smart fourtwo with a hayabusa engine (only 240hp in that configuration) can beat the fastest Fararri on a 1/4 mle strip without effort.
A 2m4 with the right tranny without ANY options trunk empty, and a 80 pounds wet teenager at the wheel CAN be faster than a fully optioned GT and a big fat old guy + junk in the trunk in it. It's all about HP to weight. Which is why a Stock GT can eat a Stock 60's musclecar like a Cutlass that has 350hp. The cutless has another 2100 pounds to move, or more... some of these cars the owners go nuts and add nearly 800 pounds in car stereo, dynamat, etc... Making the car even slower.
Weight is everything. Horsepower is secondary.
quote
Originally posted by 30+mpg:
"2.8 vs 2.5 Which is faster?"
Duuh, you should swap in a Geo Metro 3 cylinder with that logic.
pre 87 metros can be made fast. They take to turboing very well. and in that low weight car they are dang fun to drive.
[This message has been edited by timgray (edited 04-14-2009).]
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07:08 AM
82-T/A [At Work] Member
Posts: 25553 From: Florida USA Registered: Aug 2002
I don't think you can just compare the motor, you need to look at the tranny it's mated to as well.
My old duke behind a 5 speed stick was pretty lively but my current one behind an automatic is pretty pathetic. In either case my 2.8 behind a 4 speed stick beats them both but not by much when compared to the 5 speed although it leaves the auto in the dust.
Just to clarify though... a 3-speed auto 2.8 V6/60 will still beat a 5-Speed 2.5 4cyl... in top speed and acceleration...
This is still going on? "tastes great... Less filling... Tastes great... Less filling..."
A V6 should, and 99% of the time will, beat the 4 Cyl. in every way. ltlfrari (and I'm sure others) and I have had an experience where the 4 Cyl did something out of the ordinary, and probably not reproducible (at least in my case).
My 4 cyl. was not a stock setup. It was a mostly stock engine and stock transmission. (85 modified car, 88 auto 4 Cylinder engine, 86 Isuzu 5 speed transmission) And I was following a completely stock 88 V6 auto. I never caught up to the V6, but my friend was not pulling away from me (this is what I meant by "keep up"). He even was surprised, cause he said his engine wouldn't give him any more. My engine was unable to give me anything more as well. My friend and I both do not have those fiero setups anymore, so we can't reproduce the run. (mine is a 3800, his is a 3400...)
The 4 cylinder is not a bad engine, but not a performance engine without doing some serious work... Engine performance has a lot to do with transmission performance as well.
Dave
wanted to add... Since he and I didn't have a speedometer that could go to that speed, we have no idea how fast we were going at the time. Also, that Isuzu is in his 3400 car.
[This message has been edited by IFLYR22 (edited 04-14-2009).]
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10:23 AM
tjm4fun Member
Posts: 3781 From: Long Island, NY USA Registered: Feb 2006
If you were following him, you were getting an advantage, called drafting... it really does have an effect. if you had tried to pull out next to him, then you would likely have drifted back as the added wind resistance would over tax the 4.
0.036 hp/lb for a 95 hp duke in a 2600 lb typical stripped stock fiero, (this is sorta best case) 0.049 hp/lb for a 140 hp v6 in a loaded 2850lb gt. (sorta worst case) even at that the v6 is 136% better ratio. (also assuming here that you can keep each motor in it's peak power band, which is not likely.) and while you can make a 100 hp car beat a 300 hp car (but not easily), that is not the discussion here. we are talking very similar cars with similar weight and transmissions, so all things being stock variants, there is no contest.
Unless of course you drop one off a cliff.... (don;t want to get yelled at again!!! :lol: )
Each year a group of NY Fiero guys go to the Watkins Glen Road Course on opening day and drive like lunatics. The 2.5s slow eveyone down. The proof is on the racetrack. Whether you have a 2.8 manual or automatic you are much faster than any 2.5 with any transmission.
Ok, what if you drop a 2.5 into a bicycle frame (lightweight, road cycle frame), with a ten...no, an 8 year old at the helm. THEN will the 2.5 beat the 2.8?
I GOTTA KNOW!
------------------ Spent my days with a woman unkind Smoked my stuff and drank all my wine...
The 2.5 has throttle body while the 2.8 has port injection. So that makes a large difference there the 2.8 also has more of a performance cam Each motor is built for a different purpose. The 2.5 for gas miliage and the 2.8 for "so called" performance. The point is they are both SLOW. Which is why we put 3.4's,3.8's and V8's into them. I could put NOS on my duke and be faster than a 2.8 but so what I beat a 140HP car. Personally I hate to drive anything with less than 250 hp.
------------------ Home of 3 1/2 Fieros, a 900HP AWD S10, a 1967 Pontiac Catalina Convertable, a Chevy Avalanche and lots of misc GM parts.
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08:30 PM
tjm4fun Member
Posts: 3781 From: Long Island, NY USA Registered: Feb 2006
The 2.5 has throttle body while the 2.8 has port injection. So that makes a large difference there the 2.8 also has more of a performance cam Each motor is built for a different purpose. The 2.5 for gas miliage and the 2.8 for "so called" performance. The point is they are both SLOW. Which is why we put 3.4's,3.8's and V8's into them. I could put NOS on my duke and be faster than a 2.8 but so what I beat a 140HP car. Personally I hate to drive anything with less than 250 hp.
oh please. you would be lucky to beat the 2,8 in my car, and after all the parts of your motor fell out the bottom I could coast past it.. you could do a 40 shot at most, anymore and it will grenade on launch. then I could shut the car off an push it faster. I deleted the rst of the post cause of the stupid crap that is showing up here, and nos is the prime example of a moron mechanic. (only wishi I could put up a full screen period on that)
oh please. you would be lucky to beat the 2,8 in my car, and after all the parts of your motor fell out the bottom I could coast past it.. you could do a 40 shot at most, anymore and it will grenade on launch. then I could shut the car off an push it faster. I deleted the rst of the post cause of the stupid crap that is showing up here, and nos is the prime example of a moron mechanic. (only wishi I could put up a full screen period on that)
Just my point Both motors are SLOW If it can't handle a 40HP increase NOS or not. Some day you will realize that anything the GM plant or any plant puts out is slow. Cause the general public can't handle real HP. If you want to go fast you need to build it yourself or have some one do it for you. As far as racing I have a little S10 that I built that will teach you an expensive lesson if you want to gamble.
------------------ Home of 3 1/2 Fieros, a 900HP AWD S10, a 1967 Pontiac Catalina Convertable, a Chevy Avalanche and lots of misc GM parts.
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04:41 PM
30+mpg Member
Posts: 4061 From: Russellville, AR Registered: Feb 2002
Really......? More? The 2.8 is faster, end of story.
What is real horsepower? I'd hate to know that any of the 140 horses in my Fiero are fake. GM does build fast cars with "real" horsepower. 300 hp seems to be the starting point for a lot of the nicer GM cars now. The base Corvettes are even quick. There are way faster cars out there, but for street duty, 300+ hp gets the job done. Got any pics of the S-10? I've got a project/driver C-10 that is about to get new power.
60,000 per gallon of clear paint and it won't even haul a sheet of plywood I'll keep my s10 but would certainly make room for the zr1 in my garage. Do you think Jay will race me for pinks? Oh yea the general public doesn't drive zr1s. I got a "F" in typing years ago in high school. I'll see if i can post pictures of the S10. But they don't do it justice come over and I'll take you out in it for a scare. You won't look at your 2.8 the same again.
I'll keep my s10 but would certainly make room for the zr1 in my garage. Do you think Jay will race me for pinks? Oh yea the general public doesn't drive zr1s. I got a "F" in typing years ago in high school. I'll see if i can post pictures of the S10. But they don't do it justice come over and I'll take you out in it for a scare. You won't look at your 2.8 the same again.
