Has anyone ever installed an access door from behind the seats to the engine compartment? Just thinking that if done right it would make life easier for us old guys who can't hang upside down and backwards to change the firewall side plugs! Picks would be appreciated if YES! Steve

. Are you insane?

[This message has been edited by Daredevil05 (edited 02-22-2009).]

Well I do drive a fiero, thats why I ask ! Been into kits for a long time and had valkyrie (mid engine v8) that had a well sealed access point on the firewall for service. Just wondered if it had been tried on the fiero with any success. At my age and having to wear bi-focals anything I can do SAFELY that makes service easier is something I want to explore.

I believe the toyota previa (think that is the right name... It is the egg shaped minivan with the engine under the driver seat)... Think the previa had an access door under the front seat area. May be worth looking to see if it could be welded in or something

Why not just make a removable firewall? You could sit on the floor with the seat out and work on it in the rain!

i think the pantera's had an access door on them.

I think you'll find the firewall is a major part of the frame structure. Maybe a small access door would be ok, but then I'd have grease all over the interior...
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Paul, interior is overrated, muahaha.

just pay the neighborhood kid to do i tfor you. just dont ask from this van.....could lead to bad assumptions.


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First LX9 Fiero GT, 1987
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[This message has been edited by americasfuture2k (edited 02-23-2009).]

I'm parting out a 86SE V6 with a rusty frame and I looked at the location of the plugs and the service door would need to be almost completely behind the center console which means the ECM is in the way and all the rear wiring, not to mention what would be on the engine side of the fire wall.

Steve

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Where will the road take you today?

Some helpful links I've done
How to remove inner door panels, with pics.
How to remove outer door panels, with pics.
How to make rear coil-overs using factory struts, with pics.
How to remove rear bearing hubs, with pics.
How to modify the stock Fiero radio for MP3 players, with pics.
How to come up with the right coolant hoses for that engine swap...With Pics.
Basic Fiero electrical testing "How To" and equipment...with pics.

as a matter of fact , YES ! I did it to 2 cars with 6 cyl's. they had broken spark plugs. actually it was easy. take out the console, loosen the 10mm nuts that hold the ecm, lower it out of the way, remove the "clip" that hold the main wire harness, & push it out towards the engine. use a circular cutting wheel (3 inch) to cut 2 panels ( that will "fold out") about 4 inches high going from the left & the right of the existing hole where the main wireing plug goes through. this will give you an access of about 4 X 11" . ***Before you cut, look both inside AND the engine compartment to make sure there is nothing in the way (wires)**** you will have dierect access to ALL the plugs & exaust bolts.
I did it to both my cars & it made everything a whole lot easier. when you're done, fold the "flaps back into place & use some sort of seam sealer to seal them. put the wire plug back in with the clip. ecm back in. console. done. Am I insane, YES, & enjoy every minute of it !

quote Originally posted by steve308: Has anyone ever installed an access door from behind the seats to the engine compartment? Just thinking that if done right it would make life easier for us old guys who can't hang upside down and backwards to change the firewall side plugs! Picks would be appreciated if YES! Steve

IMHO, I personally think that dropping the rear cradle bolts and letting it swing out just a few inches would solve your issues... Don't quote me on this, but I *think* that if you only remove those two bolts, and slightly lift the rear of the car, it will give you plenty of clearance to the spark plugs. The reason I say that is because I know that just removing the decklid gives you oodles of room, so I think an inch or two swing of the cradle should have the same effect.

I personally wouldn't make an access door, because you've got several things to consider:
- the firewall is structural to the space frame
- grease/dirt in the interior
- you'd have to stradle the console in order to face it, while working behind tilted-forward seats (kinda counter-productive for the goal of the door)
- you'd have to verify the seal of not only the door, but also the engine bay side insulation in that area
- if your new insulation isn't properly working, your ECM will heat up... bad juju. (There's some info somewhere about removed sunroofs causing a vacuum that pulled heat over the ECM from the engine bay and made for some weird running issues)

Those are just the things off the top of my head that I would find inefficient about the design. A much simpler approach would be either the cradle swing (2 bolts) or decklid removal (4 bolts). The decklid removal would require a few extra minutes to be sure it's realigned properly, but you could easily design some quick-release that would be pre-adjusted for alignment so that you can unclip & clip the decklid...
Hope that helps in your quest!
-Paul

...edited for spelling/grammar, but screw it, I'm sick and on meds right now... I'm allowed some errors every now and then...

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Journal of a concept: http://southeastfieros.com >>> Build Thread >>> Parts thread (for project funding)

[This message has been edited by fieroboom (edited 02-23-2009).]

I've dropped the cradle with the 2 bolt thing, & I much prefer the access. I was a bodyman for 25 years, & it can be done. not hard at all. does Not screw with structure OR get dirt grease into the interior unless you are real sloppy & try to do the work in a windstorm ! once resealed, there are no leaks, heat or any other ill effects. beats the hell out of leaning over the engine. If you do it right & aren't a "butcher" it works great. just my 2 cents.

I have had several Lotus Esprits that previous owners have made "custom" access holes in the firewalls of. It is a VERY common thing to do in the Lotus community. Check out Lotus Chat for more info.

I am actually going to do this by cutting just enough to access the area. The access cover will be a larger piece of sheet metal with a rubber seal and held in place with dzus fasteners for quicker removal.

im guessing it would be fiarly easy to do one in the trunk side to get to things such as the alt and exhaust then, for those who want to keep the trunk.

I've been doing some thinking on this and thought that instead of an access panel how about access holes.

One hole for each plug lined up so the plug would point at the hole.

So you pull the wire from the trunk side then a spark plug socket and a long extension to reach through the hole to the plug.

I would think it would be fairly easy to find a rubber or metal cap or hole plug to seal the access points when not needed.

Steve

Thanks for all the input - both pro & con. A LONG while back I could have sworn that I saw a post & pic on this subject but have not been able to find it using the search mode. If someone does this soon please post the pic's. I think if done correctly and with the proper attention to detalis on both side of the firewall it could be a great time saver, back saver, knuckle saver, PLUG SAVER etc....,again thanks, it's good to know that I am not alone in my insanity! : )

or you canjust rock it like me and sit on top of the engine and and fish for the plugs

...personally, a lot of work for something that you really do not have to do very often. Easier to make up a custom extension to make the job easier - but that is just me.

I actually have been thinking about the very same thing for mine, including one to access the fuel pump through the floor ander the console. I have done this to my Chevy S-10 pick-up with one thru the bed floor.......works great! There are steel access panels available from Jeg's and Summit for these very types of openings. The one I used in my S-10 was actually a metal plumbing / electrical access panel from H Depot. Thick-gauge steel w/ a dzus-type catch.

Ferrari 360 modena's have access doors. It makes it much cheaper to do the timing belts on them. Now the engine doesn't have to be dropped.

I think Porsche Boxter/Caymans have access doors too. BMWguru would know.

The Ferrari door is sealed really well. If you dig in old threads, i did post a link to a site of a guy rebuilding a Ferrari 360 Modena, by first tearing it down to the bare metal. It might help with inspiration.

I thought of this thread yesterday when I was tightening the bellhousing bolts on a friend's S-10 after replacing the clutch.

We went to a little hardware store here in Elizabethtown, KY and bought a couple of rubber grommets that were larger in diameter than the socket we needed to use on the bolts. Once back at the batcave, I found the appropriate hole saw, pulled the carpet in his floor back and had him hold my shop vac under the drilling location to catch the shavings. In doing this, I was able to torque the bolts to spec and not shred my hands doing it. Prior to installing the rubber grommets though, I shot the holes with some rattle-can primer and paint to keep the newly exposed metal from rusting.

The important thing is to get the rubber grommets before you drill. This way, you're sizing the hole to the plug and not the plug to the hole. You can make the hole any size. Plugs may only come in certain sizes.

I still like the cradle swng idea over this though. Anytime you can avoid exposing your bare metal subframe to the elements, I'm all for it.

quote Originally posted by Mickey_Moose: ...personally, a lot of work for something that you really do not have to do very often.

Agreed. Just remove 4 bolts to take the decklid off and pop that on the car's roof. This completely opens up the area at that side of the engine.

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I just know that in my experience, I get pretty grimy working on a car... In fact, I don't even get in the car until I pull my coveralls off, because I've dirtied up so many of my interiors. Just thinking of that, and imagining how you'd have to position yourself inside the cabin makes me see visions of beautifully redone interiors with grease smudges... Something I wouldn't even chance on my old stock interiors. Think about what a pain it is just to work on the third brake light... It's a trivial task, but with the layout of the interior, it makes turning to get to it a real pain.
-Paul

Here is mine.

Thanks guys and please keep the ideas coming. I like the idea of the "plug for a plug" but I think the door as per Chris is still may be the way to go just for ease of access and the ability to get a better look at the work area. As for removing the deck lid - the 308 conversions system of strut braces, supports and adjusters make removal and reinstallation a major PITA. It's almost an hours work to service the K&N air filter due to the web of supports that must be removed and then reinstalled and adjusted!! Chris -- any photos of the hatch in the open position? Steve

I often thought of cutting access doors myself in the passenger side. about a ft square would be a lot and reattach it with aircraft dzus fasteners and good grade rubber seal. Pretty much what Chris done.

quote Originally posted by Austrian Import: Ferrari 360 modena's have access doors. It makes it much cheaper to do the timing belts on them. Now the engine doesn't have to be dropped. I think Porsche Boxter/Caymans have access doors too. BMWguru would know. The Ferrari door is sealed really well. If you dig in old threads, i did post a link to a site of a guy rebuilding a Ferrari 360 Modena, by first tearing it down to the bare metal. It might help with inspiration.

The Porsche Boxster does have access behind the front seats to replace the water pump. It isn't much of a door...the carpet has to come out to gain access to it. It also has a top access to the air filter under the convertible top housing.
As for the Fiero....I believe this is why engine swaps are done. I think that 308 replica is begging for a VR6 to give it the correct sound...and make maintenance soooooo easy.
Dave

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 02-28-2009).]

ill take one for you. I can get away with that because my computer is nowhere near that door lol. I can tell you it makes changing plugs super easy. they are RIGHT in front of you. Well, ive got a 3800 but im sure its still alot easier to change plugs on anything else.

Thanks Chris looking forward to the pics. I was thinking of doing the door behind the passenger seat. Based on your experience what do you think? GURU - Thanks for the offer of the FREE engine swap but I just can't see doing that to you in these economic times ; ) Steve

Us old guys are smiling. Back in the early 50's, on some cars, (Chrysler Corp that I know for sure), you could pull the entire front floor out and stand over the tranny. Only a few screws holding it in. You could do a clutch job in comfort, from above.

That would be neat to have ones behind the seats. make sure you dont ruin anything that would compromise the structural integrity of the super car.