Hey I just saw a fiero with a unique side scoop on it. The side scoop said HOLLEY on it, where can one get those? And is this an upgrade or a factory option? I tried to get pics, but the closer I got to the guy the faster he drove, he thought I was racing him. Car was kinda beat up, I really think I coulda took him is the 'stro. But kids ya know.
They were available back when the Fiero came out. The Fiero Store sells them now, but they say 'FIERO' on them instead of 'HOLLEY' You can find Holley ones on eBay from time to time. Last few I watched went for around $100, and as I recall, they actually REDUCE airflow into the intake.
I have one on my 85gt. some people like the way they look and some don't. Thats just a matter of opinion. As far as functionality i'am not really sure. click my sig. to see mine. i will post a closer pic tomarrow. Bought mine on ebay for $40.
I bought mine at the FS for $25 and it says "Fiero". I don't see it hurting anything performance wise, but with the Fieros' restrictive duct work and intake plenum I can see that it may not help.
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02:57 AM
sjmaye Member
Posts: 2468 From: Hendersonville, TN USA Registered: Jun 2003
I believe that the Fiero store is making these again with the same tooling less the Holley nameplate. Its just a cheap injection molded plastic side scoop. I believe that its OK for a stock 2.8L but if you do a larger displacement engine swap it will prove restrictive.When I calculated the opening area of this scoop relative to my custom CAI piping, modifications had to be made. I have one on my 3800 along with a much improved CAI system but the scoop had to have the false grill area opened up and a series of 1/2" holes on the bottom to give enough area for air intake. It's basically just a cosmetic option that does little to improve perfromance but it might help some on the 2.8L. At one time it was claimed that adding the Holley side scoop to an otherwise stock 2.8L gave 2 HP more at 60-70 MPH which was attributed to a ram air effect.
------------------ 87GT - 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. 87GT - 3.4L Turbocharged engine, modified TH125H " I'M ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
I bought mine at the FS for $25 and it says "Fiero". I don't see it hurting anything performance wise, but with the Fieros' restrictive duct work and intake plenum I can see that it may not help.
REstrictive??? huh??
The fiero STOCK instake system up to the TB can run a LS1/LT1 just fine. Maybe if you stuff the air filter fulll of rags it's restrictive, but in a normal form it's incredibly free flowing. My personal readings with a 2.8 motor in it shows incredibly little pressure drop from the mouth to the TB with a el-cheapo paper filter installed. If you have a stock or even a 3.4 upgrade engine installed you cant even approach to overwhelm the stock intake system.
The "holley" scoop is for looks only. You will get the same performance increase if you stick on some peel and stick fender vents or the stick on hood scoops.
[This message has been edited by timgray (edited 12-28-2008).]
The Holley style scoop works well when under way. I used it with the CRX intake with the air cleaner in the wheel well. Looks ok in my book and at speed it seems to help a little. Is it a genuine "get up and go" accessory? Likely not a power adder.
Arn
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02:16 PM
PFF
System Bot
Positive P Member
Posts: 27 From: Central,Fl. U.S.A. Registered: Dec 2008
The fiero STOCK instake system up to the TB can run a LS1/LT1 just fine. Maybe if you stuff the air filter fulll of rags it's restrictive, but in a normal form it's incredibly free flowing. My personal readings with a 2.8 motor in it shows incredibly little pressure drop from the mouth to the TB with a el-cheapo paper filter installed. If you have a stock or even a 3.4 upgrade engine installed you cant even approach to overwhelm the stock intake system.
The "holley" scoop is for looks only. You will get the same performance increase if you stick on some peel and stick fender vents or the stick on hood scoops.
Sorry, I just ment to say the intake where it enters after the scoop/vent. To me, and I'm sure it's been proven somewhere, that straighter ducting for air flow proves to be better. Not like this........ I'm sure all here know that this is the stock duct work for our cars........too many bends = restrictive. Granted you may not physicaly notice any gain from removing this. I will be removing mine and making my own CAI for my car.
[This message has been edited by kyunderdawg (edited 12-29-2008).]
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12:14 AM
neph Member
Posts: 116 From: Kingsville, Ontario, Canada Registered: Jun 2008
I have one of these on my car as well. I'll have to post a pic of it as I have repainted (plus the trim) it using red and black bumper paints and clear coat. Looks sharp! Not sure where it cam from as it came with the car when I purchased it. The car has a holley throttle body so not sure if it came from Holley, The Fiero Store, who knows.
Sorry, I just ment to say the intake where it enters after the scoop/vent. To me, and I'm sure it's been proven somewhere, that straighter ducting for air flow proves to be better. Not like this........ I'm sure all here know that this is the stock duct work for our cars........too many bends = restrictive. Granted you may not physicaly notice any gain from removing this. I will be removing mine and making my own CAI for my car.
i think that is a water seperator. but i'am not sure. it could be something to muffel the intake sucking noise.
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12:43 PM
kyunderdawg Member
Posts: 4373 From: Bowling Green, KY. USA Registered: Aug 2008
I hear that it was a water seperator, or an intake silencer. Anyone really know? I am actually taking mine off and installing a custom tube straight to the air cleaner housing. Any comments on doing this? Advice? I am in the process of making my own air intake vent for the quarter panel. Pics in a week or two.
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02:23 PM
82-T/A [At Work] Member
Posts: 25069 From: Florida USA Registered: Aug 2002
I used to have one of those back in the day... I bought it from the Fiero Store for $21 back in like 1998 or something.
I decided I wanted my car to look stock again, so I ended up reverting back to the factory grill so to speak. I discovered that they had stopped selling them, so I put it up on eBay and sold it for $120 bucks. Now they sell them with "Fiero" written on them instead (since Holley no longer makes them) and I think the price is about $30 or something.
I can't say for sure that it made any difference... although I am a firm believer in RAM-AIR and I do believe that it helped improve my fuel economy and passing while on the highway. I could easily do 120-130 miles an hour in my 87 Fiero SE / V6 with the GX3 3:33:1 3-Speed auto. The car was basically stock with the exception of a few things like that.
It won't help you in a drag race, but I will say that I felt some improvement in high-speed passing on the highway when I was far more immature.
I haven't had one for at least 8 years though...
Rodney Dickman sells a decent replacement part for the water seperator though...
AFTER Parts It's $40 bucks. I bought one, but I haven't gotten around to installing it yet. The car hasn't run in at least 2 years, so... hahah... it just sits in the garage.
AFTER Parts It's $40 bucks. I bought one, but I haven't gotten around to installing it yet. The car hasn't run in at least 2 years, so... hahah... it just sits in the garage.
i'm was thinking about buying this kit but i'am also doing a 3.8sc swap so i changed my mind for right now
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05:11 PM
Dennis LaGrua Member
Posts: 15777 From: Hillsborough, NJ U.S.A. Registered: May 2000
The fiero STOCK instake system up to the TB can run a LS1/LT1 just fine. Maybe if you stuff the air filter fulll of rags it's restrictive, but in a normal form it's incredibly free flowing. My personal readings with a 2.8 motor in it shows incredibly little pressure drop from the mouth to the TB with a el-cheapo paper filter installed. If you have a stock or even a 3.4 upgrade engine installed you cant even approach to overwhelm the stock intake system.
The "holley" scoop is for looks only. You will get the same performance increase if you stick on some peel and stick fender vents or the stick on hood scoops.
While I haven't proved it and you could very well be right, I have some doubts that the stock Fiero CAI system will not pose any restriction for a V8 or a modified 3800SC. I will agree that it is very nonrestrictive for the 2.8L or 3.4L engines and we also know that the same air filter element was used on some Camaros but I choose to err on the side of caution. If you look at the water separator it not only puts a sharp bend in the air intake stream, it actually has a flap right in the middle of the air flow. If we remove that water separator it will probably be OK for use with a V8. Just my opinion.
------------------ 87GT - 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. 87GT - 3.4L Turbocharged engine, modified TH125H " I'M ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
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09:13 PM
Dec 30th, 2008
Positive P Member
Posts: 27 From: Central,Fl. U.S.A. Registered: Dec 2008
So there's a possibility of a gain when the scoop is paired with the RD inlet kit? Isn't the stock air box restrictive also, is there a replacement for it, besides just a cone filter?
------------------ 1987 Astro
quote
Originally posted by Positive P:You don't need 8 cyl. to be fast!
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02:29 PM
Daniel Member
Posts: 282 From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada Registered: Jun 2003
The filter in the v-6 fiero is also from late 80's and early 90's firebirds with the 5.0 and 5.7 L V-8's, they should be adequate for most engine swaps.
This can i believe was from a cavalier with the 2.8
3" sewer duct hose- smooth wall but flexible
Modified base and modified 3" abs elbow
3" abs coupler built and glued into base of filter box
view from above
Filter minder where mounting bolt used to be
The main restriction in the stock air box is the base cross, totally eliminated in this setup.
The removal of the intake muffler had increased intake sound on the driver’s side. The new air box easily doubled this intake whistle. I have not driven long with this mod, and it is sitting for winter, but those few weeks before storage has shown the car seemed slightly more responsive to throttle movement. I believe the main improvement to airflow is the removal of the cross that used to cause a lot of turbulence . This is on a stock V-6, however this change was done on the idea of keeping this style intake for a possible engine swap.
Be sure to get the air temp sensor that comes with the filter can, as the hole needs to be plugged, and it plugs in directly to the stock fiero harness
A simpler method that would work is to cut the lip out of the plastic airbox, and the cross in the fiero air base and just silicone them together just enough for an air tight seal as there was a decent seal between the lip on the base and the lip on the airbox.
------------------ 1988 Fiero GT
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05:40 PM
Positive P Member
Posts: 27 From: Central,Fl. U.S.A. Registered: Dec 2008
Where I meant that it was restrictive, was the fact that the air coming in has to take a 90* turn to travel into the throttle body. Versus if the air box lay longitudinal.
It all depends on the surface area of the filter, what is more restrictive the bends or the filter size.
V-6 Fiero K&N filter uses 1.61 oz of oil to re-oil (62% more surface area than the 98 GTP, 27% more surface area than the 99 GTP) 1998 GTP 3.8 sc K&N filter uses 0.99 oz of oil to re-oil 1999 GTP 3.8 sc K&N filter uses 1.27 oz of oil to re-oil
The 1999 GTP air box is apparently not that bad based on gtp forums, however there is at least one 90 degree elbows after the filter into the throttle body with roughly 4 inches of corrugated intake pipe, with air before the filter coming from behind the headlight housing.
The 1998 GTP air box has two 90 degree elbows after the filter into the throttle body and roughly 5-6 inches of corrugated intake pipe, with air before the filter coming from the fender well.
The stock Fiero style intake from above does have roughly one 90 degree elbow to the outside cold air intake, and a 90 degree turn built into the air filter housing. The line to the throttlehold can be a straight pipe going from the air box into the 3800 sc engine. Also using smooth wall straight pipes reduces turbulence and improves airflow through most of the system. When the filter starts to get dirty it can be easily rotated in order to lengthen the time between filter cleanings. To me this is a worthwhile trade off for ease of filter replacement/ recharging and a path to outside cold air, away from engine heat.
It seems that most cold air intakes for the Fiero have at least one 90 degree bend in order to maximize the filter size used in the fender.
If I were to use a filter housing that reduced the bends it would probably be similar to the K&N Apollo filter or a ford truck cone filter in a similar housing, but the above housing from the cavalier appears stock and uses the stock K&N air filter that I had already.
edited to add sketch of cone filter in housing .................____________ .................|.\...................\_____ ___.______|...wwwwww..............\___._______ TB.............................wwww\............ cold air tube ___.______................wwww/......___._______ .................|...wwwwww......____/ .................|_/__________/
I would be interested in a bolt on side scoop similar to the holley that had a cross section at least as large as the 3" air tube that I have feeding into the air can, since none appear to be available I will use the stock grill for now.
------------------ 1988 Fiero GT
[This message has been edited by Daniel (edited 12-31-2008).]
Not to overthink this issue too much. Remember HER86GT? Becky was turning 11's as I recall with the 4.9 turbo. Pete stuck with the stock Fiero air filter. Hmmm......... Point being that if it did not particularly hold an 11 second car back, then on a 2.8 the logic kind of follows.
That said, the CRX with the Holley scoop sounded great, like Darth Vader on steroids, and the polished aluminum under the hood looked better IMHO.
Arn
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03:01 PM
Positive P Member
Posts: 27 From: Central,Fl. U.S.A. Registered: Dec 2008
It all depends on the surface area of the filter, what is more restrictive the bends or the filter size.
V-6 Fiero K&N filter uses 1.61 oz of oil to re-oil (62% more surface area than the 98 GTP, 27% more surface area than the 99 GTP) 1998 GTP 3.8 sc K&N filter uses 0.99 oz of oil to re-oil 1999 GTP 3.8 sc K&N filter uses 1.27 oz of oil to re-oil
The 1999 GTP air box is apparently not that bad based on gtp forums, however there is at least one 90 degree elbows after the filter into the throttle body with roughly 4 inches of corrugated intake pipe, with air before the filter coming from behind the headlight housing.
The 1998 GTP air box has two 90 degree elbows after the filter into the throttle body and roughly 5-6 inches of corrugated intake pipe, with air before the filter coming from the fender well.
The stock Fiero style intake from above does have roughly one 90 degree elbow to the outside cold air intake, and a 90 degree turn built into the air filter housing. The line to the throttlehold can be a straight pipe going from the air box into the 3800 sc engine. Also using smooth wall straight pipes reduces turbulence and improves airflow through most of the system. When the filter starts to get dirty it can be easily rotated in order to lengthen the time between filter cleanings. To me this is a worthwhile trade off for ease of filter replacement/ recharging and a path to outside cold air, away from engine heat.
It seems that most cold air intakes for the Fiero have at least one 90 degree bend in order to maximize the filter size used in the fender.
If I were to use a filter housing that reduced the bends it would probably be similar to the K&N Apollo filter or a ford truck cone filter in a similar housing, but the above housing from the cavalier appears stock and uses the stock K&N air filter that I had already.
edited to add sketch of cone filter in housing .................____________ .................|.\...................\_____ ___.______|...wwwwww..............\___._______ TB.............................wwww\............ cold air tube ___.______................wwww/......___._______ .................|...wwwwww......____/ .................|_/__________/
I would be interested in a bolt on side scoop similar to the holley that had a cross section at least as large as the 3" air tube that I have feeding into the air can, since none appear to be available I will use the stock grill for now.
I think this is true. I do understand the point being made by the guy above me /\. But not all of us are feeding an 11 sec. car. These little 2.8L's need all the help they can get. So I think I would be looking into the ranger cone air box.
------------------ 1987 Astro
quote
Originally posted by Positive P:You don't need 8 cyl. to be fast!
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08:58 PM
PFF
System Bot
Jan 14th, 2009
Positive P Member
Posts: 27 From: Central,Fl. U.S.A. Registered: Dec 2008
I did measurements with a dwyer Magnehelic differential pressure gauge. I had less than 4 inch of water pressure drop through all of the stock intake system up to the TB. (That is a 0.121 PSI drop) changing to a "performance" air filter = 0 change in pressure drop.
Adding the same "scoop" to the side and running the test showed 0 change in the intake pressure drop.
these readings were at WOT 3500 - 4200 RPM. after the TB the restrictions became far larger. The side scoop is for looks only. a $45.00 air filter is for looks only. and I'm betting that any changes to the intake system are for looks only when coupled with the stock engines or even mild upgrades like a 3.4, 3400 or northstar engine.
The only way to get more accurate readings is to do the same tests but on a dyno and using a digital gauge that can be recorded by the dyno computer.
the ONLY performance increase you can do to your intake that will benefit a 2.8 engine is to put in a turbo or supercharger. there is NOTHING you can do to the intake to help a 2.8. nothing... except for a turbo or supercharger. and even then the stock low grade paper air filter will still move more air than the engine can use. plus trying to "scoop air into the intake" will not work you have to go very fast to overcome the pressure wave that will be created at the opening of the mouth. air is not magical, it acts like water. if you stick a bent piece of conduit into a fast moving stream you will not get water squirting out the other end.
Edit, found my notes... it was a 4" drop.
[This message has been edited by timgray (edited 01-15-2009).]
I did measurements with a dwyer Magnehelic differential pressure gauge. I had less than 4 inch of water pressure drop through all of the stock intake system up to the TB. (That is a 0.121 PSI drop) changing to a "performance" air filter = 0 change in pressure drop.
Adding the same "scoop" to the side and running the test showed 0 change in the intake pressure drop.
these readings were at WOT 3500 - 4200 RPM. after the TB the restrictions became far larger. The side scoop is for looks only. a $45.00 air filter is for looks only. and I'm betting that any changes to the intake system are for looks only when coupled with the stock engines or even mild upgrades like a 3.4, 3400 or northstar engine.
The only way to get more accurate readings is to do the same tests but on a dyno and using a digital gauge that can be recorded by the dyno computer.
I respect a man that does his homework. Data is king, everything else is just talk.
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11:05 AM
Oreif Member
Posts: 16460 From: Schaumburg, IL Registered: Jan 2000
The Fiero stock CAI set-up has very little if any restrictions. If you look thru the archives there is a posting of an article by Herb Adams called "FIERO KITS-ALL FIRED UP!", They took a V-6 Fiero and ran it on a dyno, They then removed the entire intake set-up from the throttle body and ran the dyno again. There was no change.
The full article is in the September 1991 issue of Kit Car Magazine.
In searching for more power, my race crew tested the Fiero V6 engine on the dyno without the stock air cleaner and inlet system, and we were surprised to find that this produced no change in power. Apparently, the Pontiac engineers did a good job on these parts because they work well, even though they look restrictive.
As for the Holley/FS side scoop. The ONLY difference is at highway speeds it provides a very small positive pressure. While it does not increase horsepower or make the car any faster, it does improve throttle response slightly and a small increase in highway MPG. (about .5 to 1.0 mpg). At triple digit speeds, the stock vent can cause a slightly negative pressure as the air passes over the flush vent where the scoop can maintain the slightly positive pressure. This would only affect the top end of the car by a few mph.
Originally posted by timgray: I did measurements with a dwyer Magnehelic differential pressure gauge. I had less than 4 inch of water pressure drop through all of the stock intake system up to the TB. (That is a 0.121 PSI drop) changing to a "performance" air filter = 0 change in pressure drop.
Adding the same "scoop" to the side and running the test showed 0 change in the intake pressure drop.
Thank you for taking the time to test this, and then post us on your test results.
quote
Originally posted by timgray: the ONLY performance increase you can do to your intake that will benefit a 2.8 engine is to put in a turbo or supercharger. there is NOTHING you can do to the intake to help a 2.8. nothing... except for a turbo or supercharger.
Just to clarify matters, by "the intake" you've mentioned above, you are referring to the air intake flowing into the throttle body (as opposed to any "intake" component like a Trueleo intake manifold), right?
I'm almost certain that's what you're referring to because of the quote below:
quote
Originally posted by timgray: after the TB the restrictions became far larger.
That comment makes sense, but it's a bit buried in your post, and I'd like to help ensure that no one misinterprets your other comments as meaning no intake modification (Trueleo or otherwise) can help a 2.8L.
***
quote
Originally posted by Oreif: The Fiero stock CAI set-up has very little if any restrictions. If you look thru the archives there is a posting of an article by Herb Adams called "FIERO KITS-ALL FIRED UP!", They took a V-6 Fiero and ran it on a dyno, They then removed the entire intake set-up from the throttle body and ran the dyno again. There was no change.
I read the article that's posted in the link you provided us, but was somewhat puzzled by it.
IMHO, the article is an interesting one, but the way it's written, it's not clear that the tester retained at least some type of CAI (cold air induction) during both his "Before" versus "After" testing, as opposed to simply removing "the stock air cleaner and inlet system" for the "After" testing:
quote
"In searching for more power, my race crew tested the Fiero V6 engine on the dyno without the stock air cleaner and inlet system, and we were surprised to find that this produced no change in power."
Regardless of whether the tester actually retained some CAI system during both his "Before" and his "After" testing (and maybe I just didn't see some statement that he did), would not even the stock Fiero CAI theoretically be worth at least some horsepower increase over no CAI at all?
I have one of these on my 85 duke. It includes the side scoop a larger tbi a holley valve cover and a holley intake all of the stickers from the install are still under the bonnet.
just as a note when im out driving it and I give it full throttle you can really here that thing growl and suck the air in
I would love to dino it just to see the difference over stock
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11:22 PM
Jan 16th, 2009
Oreif Member
Posts: 16460 From: Schaumburg, IL Registered: Jan 2000
Regardless of whether the tester actually retained some CAI system during both his "Before" and his "After" testing (and maybe I just didn't see some statement that he did), would not even the stock Fiero CAI theoretically be worth at least some horsepower increase over no CAI at all?
While what they did exactly isn't clear, I assume they ran the car across the dyno then opened up the decklid and just removed the CIA tube off the throttle body then ran the dyno again within minutes.
With the decklid open the hot air of the engine compartment would be minimal. If they closed the decklid and let the engine compartment heat up, The hotter air would have an effect on the power slightly.
Originally posted by currie68: I have one of these on my 85 duke. It includes the side scoop a larger tbi a holley valve cover and a holley intake all of the stickers from the install are still under the bonnet.
just as a note when im out driving it and I give it full throttle you can really here that thing growl and suck the air in
I would love to dino it just to see the difference over stock
I'm not familiar with the Duke engine or its TBI that you also changed. However, I think one lesson from the test results posted by timgray is that nobody should expect any horsepower gain from the Holley side scoop itself.
I am talking Before the Throttle Body, you are correct, after the TB there are a ton of things you can do to get rid of the restrictions. but the only thing you can do before the TB in the intake system to make any difference in the performance is a turbo or SC. It's because the Fiero has a better Cold air intake setup than you can even buy for the hondas and other cars. Our cars are one of the rare ones that had the intake designed properly from the start and it was oversized as well. We also have the added benefit of not have a MAF sensor which can create a significant pressure drop in the intake system. The 2.8 Fiero came off the factory floor with as much power as they can squeeze out of it without going to racing or custom components.
