My catalytic converter has to be replaced I was womdering if I cancel it and just go straight pipe to the muffler would that cause any damage. No shop around here wants to do the work they all want me to replace the converter I told them i just want to cancel it but they said they cant its the law I told them that my car does not go to any more emmisions test so I dont need it but they said it does not matter they cant cancel it only replace it. I have a friend who said he has a buddy who will do it for me but before i let him do the work I want to know if this in any way will mess anything up.

Not sure about what the rules are where you live but I know in NY and probably in other states as well, it is illegal to alter or modify any emissions equipment regardless of whether the car gets a smog test or not. On Long Island for example, cars older than 25 years old do not have to pass an emissions test, they are only checked for safety BUT they must pass a visual emissions inspection, not having a cat or a charcoal canister or any other emissions equipment will fail the inspection.

As for removing the cat, nothing will happen to the car if you take it out.

I respectfully disagree. Removing the cat is one of the best things you can do, It will run slightly cooler. It will sound much better, and seat of the pants will improve ever so slightly. If you want to pass visual, you can hollow the cat, but it will not improve the sound, or the slight performance gain as if you put in a straight pipe.

Thanks guys I dont think they do any kind of visual inspections on the car i think they only do the regular stuff but if the car gets to a certain year they dont bother calling you back in and I know the Fiero is one car for sure they wont call in unless they make a new 2009 model. So tomorrow the car is going in and getting surgery im also adding new tips I got them from oslo a member from the PFF they are c6 al try to post some pictures when its al done.

Mark I will have to disagree with your disagreement because it depends.

On a newer engine you usually hurt performance, unless you do all the other things along with it related to the removal of the back pressure. You need to program the computer for this or it will think something is off and start throwing codes.

So it really depends, many older motors, especially pre OBD1 benefit from removing or upgrading it.

Regardless it is a federal law and a professional shop faces a $25,000 fine for doing this so no reputable shop will do it. Personal fines are about $2500 or so but you rarely hear of one being enforced unrelated to a sting on a shop.


EPA GUIDELINES
INSTALLATION REQUIREMENTS FOR AFTERMARKET CATALYTIC CONVERTERS

EFFECTIVE BY FEDERAL POLICY,
AUGUST 5, 1986

The following is the Federal Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and the California Air Resources Board

(CARB) regulations * for the proper installation of replacement catalytic converters:

1. Replacement catalytic converters may be installed only in situations as defined in the CONDITIONS FOR REPLACEMENT.

2. Replacement catalytic converters must be installed in the same location as the original converter.

3. Replacement catalytic converters must be the same type of converter as the original converter (i.e., oxidation, three-way, or three-way-plus oxidation);

4. Replacement catalytic converters must be the proper converter for the vehicle application as determined and specified by the manufacturer;

5. Replacement catalytic converters must be connected properly to any existing air injection or temperature or oxygen sensing components on the vehicle.

6. Replacement catalytic converters must be installed with all the other required converters for the particular application if more than one converter was installed originally by the vehicle manufacturer; or in the case of new aftermarket converters, if more than one converter was specified by the converter manufacturer;


7. Installers must complete the INSTALLER’S WARRANTY SHEET, and sign it, as also the vehicle owner.*VIOLATIONS of one or more of these installation requirements could result in the installer being liable for a penalty of up to $25,000 for each violation, under provisions set forth in the EPA tampering prohibition law specified in Section 203 of the Clean Air Act, 42 US Code, Section 7522, amended in 1990, and under the CARB rules and regulations pertaining to aftermarket catalytic converters.
CONDITIONS FOR REPLACEMENT
The EPA guidelines state that replacement converters may be installed only in the following situations:

1. The vehicle is missing a converter.

2. A state or local inspection program has determined that the existing converter needs replacement.

3. The vehicle is more than five years old or has more than 50,000 miles and a legitimate need for replacement has been established and documented.

jpw what would you do my car is all original.

What's this Catylaytic converter you speak of?

Hey Tonyc Long island here also! Lindenhurst.

the converter and lower o2 sensor were taken off my car before i bought it and ever since that the car runs extrememly rich. im putting i new sensor and cat back on when i get the chance

quote Originally posted by JPW: Mark I will have to disagree with your disagreement because it depends. On a newer engine you usually hurt performance, unless you do all the other things along with it related to the removal of the back pressure. You need to program the computer for this or it will think something is off and start throwing codes. So it really depends, many older motors, especially pre OBD1 benefit from removing or upgrading it. ......

well, we are talking Fieros.

a Fiero is much happier without its Cat, especially if it is the original Cat. newer, modern Cats are alot freer flowing, and just replacing with a new one is a upgrade.

Technically its against federal law to remove it. But usually cars run better without them, at least ones Ive had. Ive had some cars that even passed emmissions tests without one.

There are no Catalytic Converter police unless of course you live in a state where they have mandatory vehicle inspections and even then I would think they just wouldn't pass the car and then tell you to get one put on.

Is there anyone here who has first hand knowledge of a member getting in trouble for removing a converter?

I mean "FIRST HAND" not "my brother's friend knew a guy who heard about a guy" type of first hand :0

I pulled the one off my 84 several years ago and haven't looked back, I do wish I had replaced it with a glass pack though as it got a little louder in the car.

Steve

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: Technically its against federal law to remove it. But usually cars run better without them, at least ones Ive had. Ive had some cars that even passed emmissions tests without one.

That is not accurate. It is not against the law for an owner to remove the catalytic converter. It is however illegal for a shop to remove or disable any emission control devices including catalytic converters. What JPW posted is required by law for a shop. A private owner can remove a catalytic under federal law. Problem is states have their own laws and some are very strict like California. Illinois recently changed their emission testing laws and only 1996 and newer cars are tested. 1995 and older cars on a previous vaild pass or exemption are now exempt all the time. Technically he can do what he wants to the car as long as it passes the emission level testing for the year of his car. Being in Illinois his car is exempt, There is no way they will know. However, If they ever restart testing older cars again, He will need to comply with the state laws.

So "eze does it" can remove his catalytic converter, But he cannot have a shop do it.
It will not mess anything up.

Oreif is dead right that is what all the shops have told me that I can remove it my self but no shop can because they can get in trouble.

Wow, I did not mean to open this can of worms. My original comment was to reference that one cannot make a blanket statement that any cat removal equals good, that is simply not true, it all depends on the engine and what you do to it. I would think that any original Fiero engines should benefit from a high flow cat or no cat. However one of the things that drew me to the Fiero was the ability to swap engines and so the catalytic argument can apply to lots of Fieros with different engines. We won't even get into the "illegal engine swap" rules.

Orief, I posted the shop law but technically federal law states an individual can't do it either. Shops tell a person to do it because it absolves them from the risk of penalty. Heck the Fiero that I just got does not have cat or even a pipe, it is just completely cut off!

The biggest thing is to know your area rules and like Orief stated about Illinois I doubt very seriously that anyone is going to come a knockin' at your door about this unless you are into other illegal activities

I went back to school a few years ago and wrote some papers on this topic so I studied it quite bit.

This is all readily available information at the NEPA site just Google it but here is a copy of the law for reference.

Section 203(a)(3) of the Clean Air Act, 42 U.S.C. 7522(a)(3),
prohibits parties named in the statute from tampering with
emission control systems on motor vehicles and prohibits any
person from causing tampering. Specifically, section 203(a)(3)
prohibits vehicle manufacturers, dealerships, service and repair
facilities and fleet operators from removing or rendering
inoperative any emission control device or element of design
installed on or in a motor vehicle. In addition, section 203(a)
prohibits any person from causing such tampering. Tampering with
emission controls can include removing, disabling or destroying a
part of the emission control system, or installing an incorrect
or ineffective part in or on any motor vehicle designed to meet
Federal or California emissions standards. The installation of a
new OE converter identical to that with which the vehicle was
originally manufactured would not be a violation of the Act.

quote Originally posted by eze does it: Oreif is dead right that is what all the shops have told me that I can remove it my self but no shop can because they can get in trouble.

The easiest thing to do is just hollow it out, that way you still pass visual inspection if you ever run into one. Plus, if your cat is flanged, ie it bolts up on both ends, then it's difficult to delete it without some fabrication. All you need to do is get a fairly rigid pipe - a smaller exhaust pipe is perfect - and a sledgehammer. Stand the cat up on end, position the pipe inside the cat, and hammer it. It's a little tough going at first, but once it starts coming out, it gets easy to clear it all out. I just did it for a friend of mine on his girlfriend's Kia.
Just an idea.

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Journal of a concept: http://southeastfieros.com >>> Build Thread >>> Parts thread (for project funding)

[This message has been edited by fieroboom (edited 12-12-2008).]

quote Originally posted by fierohoho: Is there anyone here who has first hand knowledge of a member getting in trouble for removing a converter? I mean "FIRST HAND" not "my brother's friend knew a guy who heard about a guy" type of first hand :0 Steve

When I lived in NY I had a car with a straight pipe because the CAT clogged and I didn't want to buy a new one. When it came muffler time the shop wouldn't touch it unless I let them put on a CAT. I wouldn't say I got in trouble, because I didn't get a fine or anything, but clearly it's not 100% legal either.

Easiest cheapest way to go is what fieroboom said and with the fiero you will have no trouble it will run better.

Either hollowing it out or straight piping it will make it run better, also LOUDER. I replce mine with a cherrybomb glasspack. (no backpressure, less noise.)