I'm just trying to find any info on what lubricant/locker to use on my head bolts? I have seen pictures of new head bolts and they have blue looking thread lock on the threads and red thread lock on the top of the bolts... But before I jump ahead and get me anything I wanted to DOUBLE check and see if anyone knows exactly what to use?

Thanks,
JG

actually what you should use are NEW BOLTS. available from Fel-Pro or GM. I got a set of Fel Pro bolts off fleebay for like ten bucks a few months ago.
glad to hear you're still working on that beast.... beast

Russ

The bolts are not torque-to-yield and so CAN be reused.

However, they do need a locker/sealant on them. Just use blue Loctite. You have timeserts, right? Make sure you use a weaker loctite to hold the bolts in the serts than to hold the serts in the block!

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 09-27-2008).]

I believe N* uses TTY bolts. They have to be replaced every time they are removed.

If you see something that says turn X degrees as the last torque step, they are TTY and should never be reused. This isn't a perfect rule as some TTY installations may list only a torque number.

Torque To Yield bolts are made to be stressed just short of breaking. Reusing them is very likely to have one break during installation or shortly after. It's nothing but trouble waiting to happen. Even if you manage to get them installed, they probably aren't at the right pressure since they have already been stretched.

------------------
Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)

The Ogre's Fiero Cave (It's also at the top of every forum page...)

Regarding stock, all the reserch I did with head bolts led to the use of brand new head bolts with the presealer on them from GM or Felpro; You can get them from NAPA.

For my N*, I went with VW studs from ARP, Cometic metal head gaskets and Norms inserts from ebay.

quote Originally posted by theogre: If you see something that says turn X degrees as the last torque step, they are TTY and should never be reused. This isn't a perfect rule as some TTY installations may list only a torque number.

I have to disagree slightly. For example, many of the suspension fittings in the Fiero are "torque plus angle," but they are not "torque to yield."

"Torque plus angle" indeed uses bolt stretch to preload a fitting, but not necessarily to the yield point of the bolt. This technique is usually specified when engineering analysis has determined that torque alone does not result in consistent preload. In "torque plus angle," the torque specified is usually the minimum torque required to remove all free play in the fitting, and then the additional tightening angle stretches the bolt slightly to a consistent desired preload.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 09-28-2008).]

I went and got me a new set already... Not that I don't trust anyone’s opinion, but rather because I'm just saving my extra engine (which I think has a good head gaskets). And don't mass with it and leave the head bolts in it alone.

quote Originally posted by IXSLR8:For my N*, I went with VW studs from ARP, Cometic metal head gaskets and Norms inserts from eBay.

Yes I too wanted to go with Head studs from ARP, but since the bolts can be reused is not a priority for me right now. Although using Cometic MLS gaskets were as well as Norms inserts!

quote Originally posted by Russ544:glad to hear you're still working on that beast.... beast Russ

Yes Mr. Russ I too have to be glad that I'm not giving up that easily...LOL Well I just can't wait to get this thing DONE!! : )

quote Originally posted by Will:Make sure you use a weaker loctite to hold the bolts in the serts than to hold the serts in the block!`

Thanks Will I know I can always count on you!


JG

quote Originally posted by theogre: I believe N* uses TTY bolts. They have to be replaced every time they are removed. If you see something that says turn X degrees as the last torque step, they are TTY and should never be reused. This isn't a perfect rule as some TTY installations may list only a torque number.

NO NO NO NO NO!

Torque + angle is NOT torque to yield.

Torque + angle is just a more precise way to apply load to a fastener than simple torque.

PERIOD.

The Northstar rod bolts, for instance ARE TTY. They require 15 ftlbs + 120 degrees on a botl ~2" long. The flywheel bolts are also TTY and go to 10 ftlbs or so + 50 degrees on a bolt ~1" long.
Compare that stretch to the stretch in 6" long head bolts that are tq + 180 degrees while compressing a head gasket.

TTY fasteners are obvious from the spec, but T+A is NOT TTY.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 09-28-2008).]

Northstar head bolts are not TTY and can be reused. The microencapsulant on them should be removed and they should be clean when reinstalled with loctite.