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heads-up display in a Fiero? by Tanlrat
Started on: 07-13-2008 12:37 AM
Replies: 24
Last post by: Vindaloo on 03-18-2009 10:10 PM
Tanlrat
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Report this Post07-13-2008 12:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TanlratClick Here to Email TanlratSend a Private Message to TanlratDirect Link to This Post
I wonder has anyone ever tried to put a heads-up display in a Fiero??? I have been tossing that idea around in my head for the last few days and wondered if it would even be possible.

If there was a possibility i wonder which system would be better/easier to use a nerwer vette's or a grandprix gtp's from the 90's.

For me in my Fiero since i sit high in the std seat raining the hight for the mod for a heads-up display would not bother me at all. I do beleive the 90's grandprix heads-up display electrics were integrated into the gauge cluster. I don't know about the vettes at all.
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TiredGXP
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Report this Post07-13-2008 01:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TiredGXPSend a Private Message to TiredGXPDirect Link to This Post
Not a factory HUD like in the GP's or vettes, but an interesting project none the less:

//www.fiero.nl/forum/F...1/HTML/064644-2.html

Cheers

Edit: There is a special windshield used in vehicles with a HUD to enhance the reflection from the HUD, a factory HUD will be quite dim with a regular windshield. You'll need to have the BCM and VDM out of the donor vehicle you get the HUD from to make it work.

[This message has been edited by TiredGXP (edited 07-13-2008).]

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Marvin McInnis
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Report this Post07-13-2008 02:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Marvin McInnisClick Here to visit Marvin McInnis's HomePageSend a Private Message to Marvin McInnisDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Tanlrat:

I wonder has anyone ever tried to put a heads-up display in a Fiero???



I have a HUD project under way right now. Based on my research, the best HUD module is the OEM part from the '94 to '96 Grand Prix. This is the so-called 3rd Generation GM HUD module. Electrically, it is almost plug & play in a Fiero except for the "low fuel" and "low oil pressure" indicators. It looks like the '97 - '03 Grand Prix modules might work too, but they have additional features that can't be used in the Fiero. Most of the integration problems with the Grand Prix modules are mechanical rather than electrical. You do have to make your own 15-wire harness, but anyone with good basic electronic skills should be OK.

I believe PFFer jscott1 has installed the HUD module from an early '90s Bonneville (GM's 2nd Generation HUD system) in one of his custom dash projects, but I think he and I both agree that the Bonneville unit is less desirable than one out of a '94 - '96 Grand Prix. The Bonneville HUD module is physically larger, and thus harder to integrate into a Fiero dash, and it uses a mechanical cable to adjust the display position in the windshield rather than the Grand Prix's switch controlled electrical positioning.

I'll post complete notes on my project on PFF when I'm through, but probably not before.


 
quote
Originally posted by TiredGXP:

There is a special windshield used in vehicles with a HUD to enhance the reflection from the HUD, a factory HUD will be quite dim with a regular windshield. You'll need to have the BCM and VDM out of the donor vehicle you get the HUD from to make it work.



Actually, in the Grand Prixs the "HUD" windshields came off the same production line and were identical to the "non-HUD" windshields, except that 1) the HUD windshields were hand selected for better-than-average optical qualities (a fact stated in the GM Factory Service Manual), and 2) GM charged more than 3 times as much for one of the "HUD" windshields. In a few GM cars, like the Corvette, the HUD windshields actually were a different optical design which required very different manufacturing techniques.

The early (pre 1997) Bonneville and Grand Prix HUD modules do not require any signals from a BCM or VDM, as they just use discrete raw signal inputs. You do need a 4000 ppm (pulse per mile) signal for the speedometer function to work correctly, though. A suitable 4000 ppm signal is convently available on an unused pin of the '88 Fiero speedometer module, but you will have to find it somewhere else in earlier year Fieros.

For what it's worth, the '94 - '96 Grand Prix HUD modules draws only 250 ma (1/4 amp) or less at maximum display brightness ... which I found surprising and pleasant.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 01-22-2009).]

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TiredGXP
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Report this Post07-13-2008 08:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TiredGXPSend a Private Message to TiredGXPDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Marvin McInnis:


Actually, in the Grand Prixs the "HUD" windshields came off the same production line and were identical to the "non-HUD" windshields, except that 1) the HUD windshields were hand selected for better-than-average optical qualities (a fact stated in the GM Factory Service Manual), and 2) GM charged more than 3 times as much for one of the "HUD" windshields. (In a few GM cars, like the Corvette, the HUD windshields actually were a different optical design which required very different manufacturing techniques.)

The early (pre 1997) Bonneville and Grand Prix HUD modules do not require any signals from a BCM or VDM, as they just use discrete raw signal inputs. You do need a 4000 ppm (pulse per mile) signal for the speedometer function to work correctly, though. A suitable 4000 ppm signal is convently available on an unused pin of the '88 Fiero speedometer module, but you will have to find it somewhere else in earlier year Fieros.

For what it's worth, the '94 - '96 Grand Prix HUD modules draws only 250 ma (1/4 amp) or less at maximum display brightness ... which I found surprising and pleasant.



Well that's interesting info on the older HUD's, makes the swap sound easier provided you can find the unit. Things have changed a bit in the newer model GP's. My comments were based on a HUD in an 05 GP GXP (I had the pleasure of paying ~$900 for a new windshield to get the one with the HUD reflective coating)

Cheers
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Vindaloo
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Report this Post07-13-2008 10:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for VindalooClick Here to Email VindalooSend a Private Message to VindalooDirect Link to This Post
I might be able to add some to this seeing that I own 2 Grand Prix's with HUD's (1990 Grand Prix STE with a GEN 2 HUD from a 1993, and a 1996 Grand Prix SE with a 2000 GTP HUD), and 2 Cutlass Supreme's with HUD's (a 1988 Cutlass Supreme S with a 1992 Cutlass Supreme GEN 2 HUD, and a 1995 Cutlass Supreme SL with a 2000 GTP HUD). I have added the HUD to all 4 of my cars.

First of all, with the windshield being different, the differeces is mostly that the 1994-1996 windshield has a slight WARPAGE near the bottom that causes the HUD image to distort. The HUD windshild does not have that warpage. The only times my HUD is difficult to see is when I am in direct sunlight with either the sun shining directly into my windshild, or on top shining directly into my HUD itself.

Physically, the 1997-2003 Grand Prix HUD units are the SAME SIZE as the 1994-1996 Grand Prix units. I installed a 2000 GTP HUD into my 1996 Grand Prix SE, and got it to be fully functional. I even wired it into the STOCK GRAND PRIX radio to get it to display the radio station.

In my opinion, but best HUD units to use are the 1991-1993 Grand Prix, and Cutlass Supreme units. They have a larger image than the 1994-2000 unit. The 2000 HUD image kinda looks SQUASHED compared to the units in my older cars.

if you want some pics of the images, just let me know, and I will dig some up. I am sure I have some of all my setup's on photobucket.
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Marvin McInnis
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Report this Post07-13-2008 11:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Marvin McInnisClick Here to visit Marvin McInnis's HomePageSend a Private Message to Marvin McInnisDirect Link to This Post
For reference, here is the wiring diagram from the GM FSM for the '95 Grand Prix HUD installation:




You can click on the diagram above to download a higher resolution (300 dpi) version, and additional technical details are posted here. (Note that these links are not guaranteed to be valid forever.)

As you can see, the functions displayed by the '94-'96 Grand Prix HUD are:

- Vehicle speed (mph or kph)
- High beam indicator
- Left turn signal indicator
- Right turn signal indicator
- Coolant temperature warning
- Low fuel advisory
- Oil pressure warning
- Alternator advisory

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 04-23-2009).]

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megafreakindeth
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Report this Post07-13-2008 12:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for megafreakindethSend a Private Message to megafreakindethDirect Link to This Post
i noticed that there is a kind of film on some windows, i want to say the regals, where the hud projects. can you just buy this film and apply it to the glass?
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Tanlrat
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Report this Post07-13-2008 12:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TanlratClick Here to Email TanlratSend a Private Message to TanlratDirect Link to This Post
Wow so it wasn't a pipe dream after all, i would like to see some pics of installed systems if possible

Thanks guys
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pdemondo
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Report this Post07-13-2008 12:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pdemondoClick Here to Email pdemondoSend a Private Message to pdemondoDirect Link to This Post
There actually was a prototype HUD build in a Fiero. Zenith built it for Pontiac. Would sure like to have that car.
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Vindaloo
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Report this Post07-13-2008 03:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for VindalooClick Here to Email VindalooSend a Private Message to VindalooDirect Link to This Post
in both my 1995 Cutlass Supreme, and my 1996 Grand Prix, the oil, temp, and alt warnings don't have individual lights. All they do is turn on the CHECK GAUGES light in the HUD. I think it also turns on the CHECK GUAGES light for the FUEL LEVEL. I left my keys to my Cutlass Supreme in my grandmothers grand am, so when she gets home, I will go out there and get a pic of the key on position with everything lit up. In my Cutlass Supreme, the only thing that does not work is the RADIO indicators. The radio station display is only compatible with a Grand Prix radio, and the radio in my Cutlass Supreme is the stock Oldsmobile BOSE one.
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Marvin McInnis
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Report this Post07-13-2008 06:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Marvin McInnisClick Here to visit Marvin McInnis's HomePageSend a Private Message to Marvin McInnisDirect Link to This Post
I believe you, but that sounds like you are describing the 2nd generation GM HUD systems, as used in the Bonneville. Does the display position adjustment use a mechanical cable or an up/down switch?

I can assure you that my '95 Grand Prix HUD unit is a 3rd generation GM system with separate warning displays, exactly as shown in the GM wiring diagram and my technical notes.

To the best of my knowledge, the means of display height adjustment is the quickest way to distinguish among the various generations of GM HUDs:

1st generation -- Uses a lever on the side of the HUD display unit.
2nd generation -- Uses a mechanical cable.
3rd generation -- Uses a switch-activated motor.

The later ('97 - '03) Grand Prixs used a 3rd generation display unit that was mechanically identical to the '94 - '96 models, but added radio tuning information to the data displayed. Radio tuning information is of dubious value in a HUD, IMHO, but it requires a data bus connection that isn't present in Fieros anyway.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 07-14-2008).]

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Vindaloo
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Report this Post07-13-2008 06:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for VindalooClick Here to Email VindalooSend a Private Message to VindalooDirect Link to This Post
You know. My 1988 and my 1990 are both GEN 2, but my 1995 and my 1996 are the 2000 module units. I am going to check it again this evening, but I only have 1 set of keys and I left them in my grandmothers grand am.

The unit's in both my 1988 and my 1990 are the GEN 2 with the cable driven height adjuster, but the units in my 1995 and 1996 are the electric height adjusters.

Once I get my keys, I will check to see what all lights up when I turn the key on just to be sure, but I now can't be sure if I am confusing mt old 1996 unit to my 2000 unit, or what. I think I will just check it again this evening so I can be 100% sure.

I also posted about the 2000 unit being physically the same as the 1994-1996 unit but having the radio station feature because I know quite a few Fiero owners are using the newer GM pontiac radio. The radio in my 1996 is the stock Grand Prix AM/FM cassette non eq radio, and it displays the information (I had to run 1 wire for that feature to work) but when I hooked that same wire up to the BOSE radio in my Cutlass Supreme, it just does not do anything and the display stays off.
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Tanlrat
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Report this Post07-13-2008 08:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TanlratClick Here to Email TanlratSend a Private Message to TanlratDirect Link to This Post
any pics????
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Vindaloo
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Report this Post07-13-2008 09:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for VindalooClick Here to Email VindalooSend a Private Message to VindalooDirect Link to This Post
I got my keys and got a good pic and a vid of the startup sequence on my 2000 Grand Prix GTP HUD that I have installed in my 1995 Cutlass Supreme SL coupe with a 3.4 DOHC V6. I didn't have to do anything fancy to use this. It is just wired right into the cars systems and everything works EXCEPT for the RADIO STATION DISPLAY. The radio station information is for the PONTIAC radio only.

When the HUD in my Cutlass Supreme lights up, for the SPEEDOMETER SIDE, the only indicators it has are for SPEED, RIGHT TURN, LEFT TURN (also hazards), HIGH BEAMS, LOW FUEL, MPH/KPH, and CHECK GAUGES. It does not have the ALT, OIL, or TEMP lights.

The RADIO side has the STATION, CASSETTE SYMBOL, CD, AM and FM. In my 1996 Grand Prix, the radio side only lights up for like 5 seconds whenever you use it, and then goes back off. Adjusting the radio either on the radio itself, or by using the Steering Wheel controls will light it back up for 5 more seconds then go back off.

Here is a pic of the full light up.



I also did a short vid of turning the key on and off a few times to show how it does.
http://s174.photobucket.com...rrent=hudstartup.flv
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Tanlrat
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Report this Post07-13-2008 09:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TanlratClick Here to Email TanlratSend a Private Message to TanlratDirect Link to This Post
thanks Vindaloo, so a easy to install upgrade for a fiero... hmm....

Okay we covered the heads-up from a grandprix, has anyone thought of using the late model vettes display??? or would that be to hard to hook up?

you guys have been alot of help in sorting out this theory of mine.

[This message has been edited by Tanlrat (edited 07-13-2008).]

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Vindaloo
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Report this Post07-13-2008 11:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for VindalooClick Here to Email VindalooSend a Private Message to VindalooDirect Link to This Post
It has been my experiances with the Corvette HUD that it gets it's info from either a BCM, or the CLUSTER itself. I used to have the wiring somewhere in my computer, but after the last time it crashed, I lost a lot of stuff. I will see if I can get the diagram again.

The easy part of using the w-body HUD will be that wiring it in will be SIMPLE. The hard part will be integrating it into the dash itself. But you can do ANYTHING with fiberglass, and patience.

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Report this Post03-13-2009 02:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Jake_DragonSend a Private Message to Jake_DragonDirect Link to This Post
http://www.exoticvette.com/HUD.htm

Check these out. GPS speed so it only needs power to work.
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Report this Post03-13-2009 04:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MordacPClick Here to Email MordacPSend a Private Message to MordacPDirect Link to This Post
I'm glad to see that there are fresh ideas for Fiero HUDs. That GPS HUD is cheap but from the video it looks like the display is really small. How can somebody mount a HUD without interfering with the speakers in the front?
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Report this Post03-13-2009 09:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TKSend a Private Message to TKDirect Link to This Post
I have the GPS HUD and the display on the windshield isn't much smaller than the GM projector HUDs. It works fine other than the ghosting on the non-HUD windshields. If you use the film, it's plenty bright in the daytime.
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Report this Post03-13-2009 10:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Direct Link to This Post




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Report this Post03-14-2009 12:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hye_4_lifeSend a Private Message to hye_4_lifeDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:







A few questions:

Is there a thread for the installation of that HUD system?
Is there a way to project the readings in red?
Is there a thread for the installation of the later fourth gen. Firebird cluster?
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Report this Post03-14-2009 01:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sardonyx247Click Here to visit sardonyx247's HomePageClick Here to Email sardonyx247Send a Private Message to sardonyx247Direct Link to This Post
I've had a HUD unit in mine for about 4 years now. I wanted to use the radio one but the radio was missing. I will probably make a full custom Fiero one in the years to come.

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Report this Post03-18-2009 09:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by hye_4_life:


A few questions:

Is there a thread for the installation of that HUD system?
Is there a way to project the readings in red?
Is there a thread for the installation of the later fourth gen. Firebird cluster?


a) I don't have a thread on the HUD, but electrically it's simple as shown in the diagram. By the Way the low fuel does work...mine is hooked to the sender and illuminates when the gauge gets to about 1/4

Mechanically, the setup is unique to my dash so I'm not sure how it would help anyone else...



b) the HUD display is green, it is what it is.

c) dash installation here...

//www.fiero.nl/forum/F...HTML/023174.html#p38

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Report this Post03-18-2009 09:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hye_4_lifeSend a Private Message to hye_4_lifeDirect Link to This Post
Thanks jscott1, now to find the HUD from a Bonneville, cluster from a Firebird and a few other interior components.
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Report this Post03-18-2009 10:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for VindalooClick Here to Email VindalooSend a Private Message to VindalooDirect Link to This Post
Don't know if it helps any, but a friend of mine had a PONTIAC AZTEC with HUD, and the display was RED. It was almost like a dot matrix style.

I son't know anything else about it, but it WAS red.
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