What do people think about adding ATF to your oil to de-sludge an engine? I have never tried this. Just trying to pass emissions.

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I dont like the idea. and - your oil should have very little effect on your emmissions - if it does - you are burning oil - and - you wont pass emmissions

I find using synthetic oil does a GREAT job of "desludging". it is a nice easy gen tle way to do it. using any thinners or solvents just dont seem good.

old classic - dunno if its true or not - but many claim "dry gas" - or the stuff to keep ice from forming in your fuel system in the winter is a fine thing for passing emmissions.

but - proper tune up is #1. perhaps some good Techrom based injector cleaner. a round of Seafoam. but - oil should NOT effect emmissions.

quote Originally posted by NashvilleFiero: What do people think about adding ATF to your oil to de-sludge an engine? I have never tried this. Just trying to pass emissions.

Adding ATF is good for an older engine because what it typically does is cause the seals to swell up, creating a better seal all around the engine. I wouldn't say it necessarily cleans the motor... but it does to some extent. On my older motors, I add a half-quart of ATF at least once a year.

It doesn't hurt your motor at all because all it is is hydraulic fluid, which is actually good for your motor. As long as you simply ADD it, rather than use it exclusively... haha... then you should be fine. I wouldn't add more than a half quart though. (on top of your regular ~4 to 4.5 quarts).


Your car SHOULD pass emissions just fine, if it's not then there's something wrong with the emissions system. As long as you don't have a check engine light, and you have a catalytic converter on your car then it should pass. if it doesn't then it means you have a lot of carbon buildup in your motor. My advice in this case would be to get a can of "Seafoam". You run this in your gas tank. It cleans your injectors and completely cleans out the valve and combustion chambers. It's 8.95 a can at most auto parts stores.

Use it ONLY on a full tank.

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Todd,
2006 Pontiac Solstice
2004 Volkswagen Beetle Convt. (Wife's)
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6
1984 Porsche 944
1981 Pontiac Trans Am WS6 / 455
1981 EZ-GO Xi875-A "Miami Dolphins" Medical Cart
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter

Never try to DESLUDGE an engine ,,........NEVER........ the crap you release will be circulating thru the engine and help to destroy the engine..
An old engine is full of crap all you have to do is remove the valve cover and check it(easy on duke).
I am a beleaver in synthetic oils but on an old engine you should run a syn blend a few changes this will slowly clean the engine ..
If the engine has over 125,ooo miles do not start the use of synthetic unless you know engine is fairly clean inside, a true synthetic may release a lot of sludge and actually destroy the engine.. use injector cleaner
Buy oil now !! at least enough for 2 oil changes in all your cars the price of oil will climb ,make sense buy it on sale the price may come down but eventually will rise PLAN for oil shortage and gas shortage have at least 2 - 5 gallon cans any world event that can cause oil flow to stop be prepared have hand pump to transfer gas from one car to another ..NO not your neighbors car in the early morning hours ,, when stations had no gas in the 70s I transfered gas from car tank to scooter
Make sure engine is hot when emmission check is done the hotter it is the better the cat works have check done between 1pm and 4 pm if you have to wait park car in sun,with hot concrete under car ,, you get the idea

[This message has been edited by uhlanstan (edited 07-12-2008).]

I agree. When the deposits start to break loose, they will accumulate in the oil pan. If there's a lot of sludge, chunks of it may clog the oil pump pick-up, and cause your engine to lose oil pressure. Or the gunk will accumulate in the oil filter, clog it up, and cause it to go into bypass mode. Then, the rest of the gunk will be pumped throughout your engine, unfiltered. Both scenarios are pretty grim.

I think your best options (regarding the sludge buildup) would be to have the engine rebuilt, or start saving up for a new engine (or another car).

Breaking sludge free isn't all that bad. The only thing you have to worry about is the potentil for clogging the oil pickup screen. This CAN happen, but... that's something you usually see on an old original 1970s small block chevy. Adding a half-quart of ATF to the engine will loosen some of that stuff up, but it's not so awesome that it's going to totally clean out the motor in one shot. The sludge and junk won't recirculate through the motor... it'll get caught by the oil filter.

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Todd,
2006 Pontiac Solstice
2004 Volkswagen Beetle Convt. (Wife's)
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6
1984 Porsche 944
1981 Pontiac Trans Am WS6 / 455
1981 EZ-GO Xi875-A "Miami Dolphins" Medical Cart
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter

ATF will "scald" the metal, ie it will remove the oil built up in the pores of the metal surfaces. That could be very bad.

ATF is an old junkyard trick. Pour it into a frozen up engine thru the sparkplug holes, and sure enough, it will free up. Might need a fresh hone & ring job, but what the heck?

If you have a gunked up engine and disassembly is not in the plans, try running Marvel Mystery oil in the gas tank on a regular basis. And when you've run a few tanks thru, add a quart to your engine oil, run it, and change the oil & filter.

Shoot, I've seen people put kerosene in the engine, instead of oil, run it, and change it back out. Amazing.

David Breeze

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Pantera Rebody Kits

Since when have we had Emissions test in TN no one i know in many parts of TN have to take an Emissions test.

quote Originally posted by linuxpowered88: Since when have we had Emissions test in TN no one i know in many parts of TN have to take an Emissions test.

Not true. Look it up.

I have not done this to my engine yet, but I may after reading these comments:

http://www.pcabusers.com/fo...d.php?threadid=43442

they have oil flush kits that work fine. if youve been doing 20,000 mile oil changes then your going to starve the pickup tube but all you gotta do is spray some gum cutter up the pickup to unclog it, or remove the pickup and install an new one after the flush. i wouldnt reccomend it though if there are just globs of sludge inside there, look under the valve cover. if you can see all of the valvetrain then youre good to go for a flush. ive seen some customers come in after never changing the oil(bmws dont need oil changes because nothing ever goes wrong on them) and i cant find the camshaft because of sludge.

sludge wont affect emmissions though probably going about this in the wrong way.

I don't know about today's blends of ATF, but at one time ATF had a high silicone content. Because today's engines use an O2 sensor that can be destroyed by silicone, and aside from the other problems mentionedm, it might not be wise to use the ATF, since there is certainly some blow-by on the engine. Even the RTV sealants used in todays automobiles have eliminated the silicone, and it isn't recommended that any uncured silicone be used in the engine compartment.

is it given by the county or the state. we do not have test here i know.

quote Originally posted by linuxpowered88: is it given by the county or the state. we do not have test here i know.

County.

http://www.state.tn.us/environment/apc/vehicle/

Oh ok thanks nashville

My Grandfather owned a gas station / garage way back when and he swore that ATF in the crankcase would do wonders for an ailing, high mileage engine. Ofcourse most of his customers were 40's and 50's vintage autos. I listened to his stories of auto mechanics for years and just blew them off. A few years ago, I bought a 62 Chevy 2 that had been sitting for years. When I picked it up, we took it home and did the normal, drain the old gas, carb rebuild, hose replacement, oil cahnge, etc. etc. We fired it up and it smoked like a train. After 45 minutes running, the valves started clattering. We checked the oil, down 2 qts. Remebering my Grandpa's advise, I put 2 quarts of ATF in and started her up again. Same thing, smoked like a train. I played with this car over the course of a year, driving it to the store, adding oil. Every other quart of oil I added, I would add 1 qt of ATF. After a year of this regimine, I was down to burning 1 qt every 5 to 600 miles. ATF defintiely freed up the rings. About 3 years later and driving it every day, it finally spun a bearing. We pulled the motor and much to my surprize, when we tore it down, it was extremely clean inside. No sludge, no baked on burned oil, etc. Every since then, when I get a car that is a little on the tired side, it gets the ATF treatment.

Granted, I havent done it for years. But in older cars from 70s back, I always used to run a quart of ATF in one for 100 miles or so in city traffic before changing oil after I bought the car. I also used to fill the crankcase with kerosene on really dirty ones. I dont recall ever have any problems with either. I never saw where 'chunks' of stuff broke loose. It just slowly disolved it. Ive also run coke or a mix of oil and trans fluid thru a carb at fast idle to clean out upper cylinders. All kinds of crap and carbon blew out the exhaust. Dont know how that works with cat converters though.

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: Granted, I havent done it for years. But in older cars from 70s back, I always used to run a quart of ATF in one for 100 miles or so in city traffic before changing oil after I bought the car. I also used to fill the crankcase with kerosene on really dirty ones. I dont recall ever have any problems with either. I never saw where 'chunks' of stuff broke loose. It just slowly disolved it. Ive also run coke or a mix of oil and trans fluid thru a carb at fast idle to clean out upper cylinders. All kinds of crap and carbon blew out the exhaust. Dont know how that works with cat converters though.

Oy!
Coke=sugar

ATF works great for cleaning out an old dirty engine. But, your issue seems to be that you want to pass emissions, not that you need to clean the engine. A dirty engine will not make it less likely to pass an emission test. Clean is not really more likely. You need to find out what is wrong and fix the proper thing. Then, if your engine is dirty, run some ATF to clean it out.

Like Roger, I used to pour things into the carb while holding the engine at fast idle. There were even some products made for that purpose. Bardahl is one that comes to mind. Pour it in, and just before you emptied the container, let the engine idle down and dump the balance of the product into the carb to choke the engine down. Let it sit for a while, then when the smoke cleared enough to find the car, start it up and drive it. ATF was also one of those things used, as well as water to break the carbon loose from the cylinders and valves. Those were pre-catalytic converter days, though.

Just got a oil change at a quicky lube place. Was told my engine needed a “flush” cause it was the third oil change. The car (not a Fiero) has less than 10,000 miles on it.

Wonder how many of these “flushes” are sold to naive car owners.

quote Originally posted by spark1: Just got a oil change at a quicky lube place. Was told my engine needed a “flush” cause it was the third oil change. The car (not a Fiero) has less than 10,000 miles on it. Wonder how many of these “flushes” are sold to naive car owners.

Known to many as the "Wallet Cash Flush"

Prob as many as buy the 3000 mile oil change stuff. Its overkill to me, most new car manuals themselves say 7500 miles. Oil company already gets enough of my money. Im not saying it hurts but highly unnecessary. Anyone here drink the recommended 4 glasses of milk or 12 glasses of water a day ? And were not all dead

I changed the oil & filter in a 86 SE I bought(2.8),146K miles. and within 1 minute running time , the oil is black again !

quote Originally posted by Lou6t4gto: I changed the oil & filter in a 86 SE I bought(2.8),146K miles. and within 1 minute running time , the oil is black again !

Likely the engine is full of crud because the last guy did not think it necessary to change the oil every 3000 miles. It can take a long time to undo the damage. Add a 1/2 quart of ATF, then drive it. Change the oil in about 1000 miles. Do it again. The ATF will not hurt anything is the small amount, but the detergent will clean. After about 6 months to a year the engine should be pretty clean. When you change the filter it will be amazing how heavy it is. It will be pached full of the crud.

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: Prob as many as buy the 3000 mile oil change stuff. Its overkill to me, most new car manuals themselves say 7500 miles. Oil company already gets enough of my money. Im not saying it hurts but highly unnecessary. Anyone here drink the recommended 4 glasses of milk or 12 glasses of water a day ? And were not all dead

If the car is under warranty, extending the oil change interval may be a problem.

The 7,500 miles or 6 months oil change recommendation of Nissan (and likely most others) “applies only to highway driving in temperate conditions.”

Most owners don’t exclusively drive highway miles and would likely fall under the “repeated short trips”, “stop and go traffic in hot weather”, “driving in dusty conditions” etc. circumstances requiring the 3,750 mile or 3 month service for warrantee compliance.

For anyone that has an engine under warrenty, I highly recommend that you keep a logbook in the car and that you track all of your oil changes, repairs and services in it. When something breaks, if the dealership wants to be jerks, they can require you show proof that the car was properly serviced. A logbook is proof and is admissible in court as evidence even if you did not keep all your reciepts. The logbook is also a lifesaver if you do your own oil changes.

I've done it with no ill results, I put a half quart of ATF in with the oil (when nearing time for oil change) and drove around for 15 minutes, came home and changed the oil and filter. Just my example, it was a 2.5 in a 90 Grand Am, also did the same to a 79 Caprice Classic with a 350.

If you want to clean the crankcase of your motor i recomend (like my recommendation means anything ) this stuff called "motor flush" from Gunk. You pour it into a cold engines oil start engine and let it run for five minutes ( shut off before the engine gets to operating temp). Drain oil and replace filter. I did this with my 97 cavalier . It had 176K on the clock and when i pulled the valve cover to replace the gasket the internals where very clean. They only had a reddish tint to them, no sludge what so ever. I got the car with under 10k on the clock and used it every other oil change. I use it with all my engines and never had a problem with the stuff. It works as advertised as long as you read the instructions before you use it !

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ARCHIES JUNK IS FASTER THAN SHAUNNA'S JUNK

I change my synthetic in all my cars once a year or 7500-10000 miles. All my engines are clean as new. I put a new oil pump in the vette with 80K because the pickup tube was coming apart from a defect. Inside of it looked like it was assembled last week. I havent looked in the block of the 66 Coronet, but adjusting the valves, inside the heads were as clean as could be.

Even if they wouldnt allow routine daily driving and changing it at 7500, how would they ever be able to determine how you used your car. I can tell a dealer my cars ONLY ever driven on freeways for its entire life and how would they be able to verify it or not.

I have a college roommate that currently works at GM and does engine test management including hybrid engines. He recommended to do the ATF trick but with a different procedure.

1) Pull the plugs
2) Add the ATF in the cylinders and in the valve train
3) Allow to sit overnight with rags in the plug ports
4) Crank the engine with the plugs out and the rags in
5) Replace plugs, run the engine for about 50-100 miles and then change the oil & filter

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1984 Red Fiero SE #9382
2.5L Iron Duke / 125C Automatic

[This message has been edited by robmacy (edited 07-18-2008).]

quote Originally posted by robmacy: I have a college roommate that currently works at GM and does engine test management including hybrid engines. He recommended to do the ATF trick but with a different procedure. 1) Pull the plugs 2) Add the ATF in the cylinders and in the valve train 3) Allow to sit overnight with rags in the plug ports 4) Crank the engine with the plugs out and the rags in 5) Replace plugs, run the engine for about 50-100 miles and then change the oil & filter

Doing it that way is to free stuck rings.