Wife was driving the car and it overheated... And then she continued to drive it home.

It's a 2.8L V6, 1986. It was completely rebuilt from the crank up 50,000 miles ago by the dealer.

I changed the oil and the car starts and seems to run fine. But there is a very noticeable top-end ticking noise now. It's a constant tick that increases in speed with the RPMs. I had one mechanic say it was likely lifters... I replaced my lifters and push rods with no change in sound. I had another mechanic say it was probably injectors... But I don't want to spend $200 on a set of injectors if it's not going to fix the problem...

Would overheating cause injectors to start making noise? Anything else besides injectors I should look at? Like I said, I already replaced the lifters and pushrods... Could it be a valve? I'm getting 125-135# in compression tests across all cylinders.

[This message has been edited by SoCalFiero (edited 07-03-2008).]

Can you make a recording of the ticking sound and post it here? That would be helpful for determining what it is.

Christ, after watching my sisters drive cars with no oil for inexplicably long periods of time (like WEEKS, no crap!) I've always said cars should have a "woman mode", the temp light, or oil light cause the car to shutdown and coast to a stop. Bottom line. No driving for hours without oil or at *260+

Injectors normally tick pretty loud, the heat wouldnt cause this, but who knows. Just put a long screwdriver on any injector you can reach and put it to your ear and listen.

Anyway, at this point, there really isnt anything to do, its either a rod\main bearing, or nothing important. Just check the oil next time you change it, if there are golden streaks, then you've got bearing material in it. It might get worse, it might just tick a little for the rest of its life.

quote Originally posted by SoCalFiero: Wife was driving the car and it overheated... And then she continued to drive it home. It's a 2.8L V6, 1986. It was completely rebuilt from the crank up 50,000 miles ago by the dealer. I changed the oil and the car starts and seems to run fine. But there is a very noticeable top-end ticking noise now. It's a constant tick that increases in speed with the RPMs. I had one mechanic say it was likely lifters... I replaced my lifters and push rods with no change in sound. I had another mechanic say it was probably injectors... But I don't want to spend $200 on a set of injectors if it's not going to fix the problem... Would overheating cause injectors to start making noise? Anything else besides injectors I should look at? Like I said, I already replaced the lifters and pushrods... Could it be a valve? I'm getting 125-135# in compression tests across all cylinders.

Hey SoCal... well, I've got bad news for you. I'm 99.99% sure that the problem is a failed main bearing. What happens MOST of the time when one of these early V6/60s overheats REALLY bad, is that the crank actually expands to the point where it begins to take unnecessary wear on the main bearing caps. What ends up happening is the main bearings begin to wear out and sheer (literally squeezing the metal out the sides of the crank journal). Typically, you won't see metal shavings because they're still attached, but the bearing metal is squished out the side (you'll see when you tear it down).

The noise IS in fact coming from your lifters, but the reason why the lifters are making noise is because they are not getting enough fluid. Since the lifters are in fact hydraulic, they are not able to maintain proper pressure and have more or less collapsed. They could easily be pumped back up if sufficient pressure was available... but that's where the problem is. Because of the increased tolerances now in your main bearings, almost all of your oil is squirting out through there, rather than being pumped up to your lifters.

So... the only solution is to replace your main bearings. Unfortunately, this typically results in a complete engine rebuild. If your cyl heads are good, and your rings are decent and everything, you may not need to do much. I HAVE seen people sort of do it on the cheap... and all they do is unbolt the crank / main caps, pull the crank out slightly with the rods still attached, and swap out the main bearings with new standard sized ones. You'll want to use plenty of assembly lube since you're likely to end up wearing down the crank a bit more when it breaks in.

I recommend this if you just don't have the money to spend and it's a necessary vehicle to get around. Typically... it won't last too long like this... probably 10k. Not to mention that your rod bearings have also probably worn down some due to the overheating.

In particular though, the main bearings seem to take a real beating when the V6/60 overheats.

It's happened to me, and I've seen it on here sooo many times.


Good luck...

Oh, just want to add one more thing. I wouldn't drive it like this. If you need to, you can use the car to move around near-by. But I wouldn't drive it in any stop and go traffic. Maybe just to the grocery store. The ticking will get worse, and as it gets worse, you'll start to develop a knock in the higher rpms. As the wear increases... the knock will move lower and lower into the RPM range... hah... ask me how I know...
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Todd,
2006 Pontiac Solstice
2004 Volkswagen Beetle Convt. (Wife's)
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6
1984 Porsche 944
1981 Pontiac Trans Am WS6 / 455
1981 EZ-GO Xi875-A "Miami Dolphins" Medical Cart
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter

[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 07-03-2008).]

Hmmm... Okay, well... It seems it's bad news and even worse news...

I can't post a sound of the ticking right now, but it's not knocking (yet) it's just a noisy, but light, metallic tick that -sounds like- it is coming from the top-end.

I really do love the stock look of my car, so I don't want to do an engine swap if I can help it. I'd rather just rebuild or swap a good 2.8 in there.

One thing to note is that it was said the lifters wouldn't pump up if the main bearing was worn out... But I turned it over with the valve covers off and I am indeed getting oil through my pushrods onto my rocker arms... Does this matter? Or is it just not wore out enough yet?

Gross. I had the same dilemma.. to put $1500-$2000 into a brand new rebuild or hope a quick fix might do the trick. Well the quick fix lasted the drive home from the shop (6min?).. do it right and get a new crank, bearings, rods. A rebuild kit wouldn't be a bad idea either.

The lifters will pump up (assuming they're not defective) as long as you have oil pressure, even just 10 psi or less.

A rod will usually start knocking when it goes bad, not just tick. Can you tell if the ticking is at the same speed as the engine RPMs? Or half the speed? Use a timing light and see if the ticking occurs at the same rate as the flash, if it does then it's valve-train related such as a wiped lobe on the cam or a failed lifter, or rocker arm. If it's crank speed then it could be a piston or piston wrist pin. Also, make sure it's not an exhaust leak, and do the usual like pull the plugs to check for excessive cleanness indicating a head gasket problem.

JazzMan

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: The lifters will pump up (assuming they're not defective) as long as you have oil pressure, even just 10 psi or less. A rod will usually start knocking when it goes bad, not just tick. Can you tell if the ticking is at the same speed as the engine RPMs? Or half the speed? Use a timing light and see if the ticking occurs at the same rate as the flash, if it does then it's valve-train related such as a wiped lobe on the cam or a failed lifter, or rocker arm. If it's crank speed then it could be a piston or piston wrist pin. Also, make sure it's not an exhaust leak, and do the usual like pull the plugs to check for excessive cleanness indicating a head gasket problem. JazzMan

He doesn't have a problem with a connecting rod, he has a problem with one of his MAIN bearings. I've seen this problem before on V6/60s, and I personally have gone through this myself. It's without a doubt, a main bearing.

The lifters will pump up enough for the vehicle to properly drive, but the ticking is because there is in fact some slack in the lifters because they are not able to fully pump up. When my car was doing this, my oil pressure sensor warning light did not come on. It actually didn't start coming on until I was in traffic for a few minutes (totally warmed up), and it would then only come on when I was stopped at a light. At speed, the ticking basically would go away (since there was enough pressure).

For what it's worth, it wasn't the oil pump because it's the same one I'm using in my rebuilt motor.

If you want to keep the existing motor, you can always go with a rebuild kit from ARI racing. My advice though would be to go for broke and look for a LOW mileage 3.4 block from a 93-95 Chevy Camaro. It basically drops RIGHT in. The only thing different you need is:

1 - 17lb injectors
2 - Have a bolt hole drilled and tapped for the starter (Rodney Dickman sells a jig for like $35 bucks)
3 - Pop out the freeze plug that's covering the distributor hole.

That's it, you use EVERYTHING from your 2.8... the fuel rail, the oil pan, the timing cover... everything.

At the local junkyard here... they have a few wrecked ones and they sell the motors for $100 bucks.

I hate to insist on he worst possible news, but this is what you have. I'm only telling you this so you don't plan on going on a long trip with it. It will get progressively worse in the next couple of days.

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Todd,
2006 Pontiac Solstice
2004 Volkswagen Beetle Convt. (Wife's)
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6
1984 Porsche 944
1981 Pontiac Trans Am WS6 / 455
1981 EZ-GO Xi875-A "Miami Dolphins" Medical Cart
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter

[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 07-03-2008).]

I had a bearing knock 12 years ago but it sounded like a jackhammer. I was on the hway and I started to hear a ticking. I shut off my stereo and listened while I got over to the breakdown lane. By then it sounded like a jackhammer.... I had low oil pressure (a few notches above the red on my oil pressure gauge). I dumped in what oil I had spare in my trunk and drove it home in the breakdown lane @ 30mph... You may be right but I would think it would be louder than just ticking if it were bearings.

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=-Eric the Dread

1988 Fiero GT 2.8L V6
2001 Grand Prix GTP SC3.8L V6

Would the oil pressure thing really have anything to do with it because on the 2.8 the valvetrain gets oil before the crank. At least thats what I have always been told. So the lower end would be more likely to fail than a valvetrain part if I am not mistaken??

Thanks for all the responses, guys. I appreciate it.

I wish I could say I was less confused than when I first posted this thread.... But... I'm not.

Would it be a waste of time to remove the heads and check the valves? That's about the only part of the top-end I haven't tore down yet.

But it sounds like either way I'm going to be dropping the engine (either to rebuild or swap in a 3.4 block)... So I'll probably start with that. Is there an easy way to check if the main bearings are shot once I have the engine out of the car?

quote Originally posted by 88 Dread GT: I had a bearing knock 12 years ago but it sounded like a jackhammer. I was on the hway and I started to hear a ticking. I shut off my stereo and listened while I got over to the breakdown lane. By then it sounded like a jackhammer.... I had low oil pressure (a few notches above the red on my oil pressure gauge). I dumped in what oil I had spare in my trunk and drove it home in the breakdown lane @ 30mph... You may be right but I would think it would be louder than just ticking if it were bearings.

Being physically out of oil and overheating are very different when it comes to engine wear. The bearings immediately get destroyed when you run with NO oil at all.

Overheating would cause the bearings to wear out due to thermal expansion and lack of space. When the car was overheating, she probably didn't hear any ticking at all.

The two examples are completely different.

------------------
Todd,
2006 Pontiac Solstice
2004 Volkswagen Beetle Convt. (Wife's)
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6
1984 Porsche 944
1981 Pontiac Trans Am WS6 / 455
1981 EZ-GO Xi875-A "Miami Dolphins" Medical Cart
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter

I had about 300 (or was it 500) miles on a newly rebuilt 2.8L when I overheated it. I forget what happened, but basically I lost all coolant without my knowlege, the temp gauge never rose, I only noticed when I couldnt figure out why the engine was acting so sluggish. It completely wiped out the mains, all 4 down to the brass. I forget what it sounded like, but mains usually tick more than knock or hammer. I remember I confirmed it by draining the oil and examining it for brearing material, there were waves of golden flakes in it. Your oil should be pure black.

Bottom line, you're probably better off not knowing. You're only going to end up thinking you have to rebuild it, might as well wait and see if it holds out. Just keep an eye on the oil guage, unless it drops too low or the noise becomes loud, just ignore it.

this probibly is irrelivant, but have you thought of a cracked exhaust manifold bieng the culpret?

they can seem to tick and be confused with a lifter or top end tick

just a thought

Keep in mind that most of the time when a Main fails, it only knocks at start-up until the oil pressure rises,then it quietens back down (two or three seconds). Also, if it gets bad enough to knock all the time, it will knock at idle but will stop when you give it gas and put the engine under a load.

A rod will knock ALL the time and get worse when you accelerate.

Listen to it when you first start it up cold (first second or two) and see if its louder then. You may hear the main at first and the lifters after that as was suggested earlier.

Best of luck though,

Sreve

Man, just went through the same ordeal. I think I was a little more fortunate since she only probably let it over heat for a short time while idling, I didn't see any gold flakes in my oil and I hear no ticks but I'm worried that something still may of been damaged, just not bad enough to notice. Let that be a lesson to all of us though.

MAYBE.... it's a sticky valve. maybe you'll get lucky. put some marvel mystery oil in your GAS. if it's a sticky valve, it will free it. only cost ya $3 to find out. Good luck.

quote Originally posted by JumpStart: Keep in mind that most of the time when a Main fails, it only knocks at start-up until the oil pressure rises,then it quietens back down (two or three seconds). Also, if it gets bad enough to knock all the time, it will knock at idle but will stop when you give it gas and put the engine under a load. A rod will knock ALL the time and get worse when you accelerate. Listen to it when you first start it up cold (first second or two) and see if its louder then. You may hear the main at first and the lifters after that as was suggested earlier. Best of luck though, Sreve

This ticking is constant. It is there when I start it up with the engine cold... And I've let the engine run for a few hours since it happens and it doesn't seem to be getting worse or better. It's there at idle. It's there under acceleration.

I'm going to let it run a few days and change the oil again and check for any gold in the oil like was mentioned.

I imagine I will be rebuilding the thing either way, though.

Use a stethescope & go over the engine from top to bottom. a sticky valve will sound exactly like a bad lifter, but you will hear it in the valve cover. seen it before. if it's any kind of bearing you will hear it when you touch the pan with the probe.