when i asked my chief, he said that is siphoning gas out of other cars. i highly doubt that is correct. i tried googling the term and check wiki, all i really found was info about people doing it. i want to learn more about it and do it to get more than 315 miles to a 10 gallon tank. and do it with my GT when im not trying to break the sound barrier, which will ONLY happen at the track (had a bad experience with that if no one knows)

I have personally gotten 300 miles on a tank of gas in an 88 by hyper miling which IMO is a great acheivment when concidering I usually get about 220 when driving it like I normally do ..thats with a 4.10 4 speed and a 3.4 DOHC ..hopefully with my N* swap I will get similar results
I coast at least half of the time my car is moving when possible and also shut the engine down on occasion on long coasts. It all adds up to less visits to the pump

[This message has been edited by Erik (edited 06-20-2008).]

hypermiling is where you literally drive like a little old lady. there are a few techniques that they employ such as pushing there car to start it rolling, never opening the windows, never exceeding 55 mph on the highway, no a/c, trying to time lights and stop signs so not to lose momentum. there are a few other things i'm sure that i don't know about as i just watched a thing on tv a few weeks ago.

they have NON hybrid cars doing 130+miles on a gallon of gas in competitions or races if you will, however i doubt you could achieve this during every day driving. the tv special i just watched had a 06-08 accord getting 59 miles to the gallon just driving it very consciously and employing some of the above techniques.

you can get great gas mileage with any car it really just comes down to a lead foot and when you shift, though a/c and the drag caused by open windows would be a decently sized variable. i personally won't drive my car in the desert i live in without the a/c on.

It's the practice of getting extraordinary fuel economy from your car. Usually involving drafting, coasting (actually turning off your engine at times), etc. Some people are really into it.....most of them probably socially retarded, but I digress.

quote Originally posted by evil: hypermiling is where you literally drive like a little old lady. there are a few techniques that they employ such as pushing there car to start it rolling, never opening the windows, never exceeding 55 mph on the highway, no a/c, trying to time lights and stop signs so not to lose momentum. there are a few other things i'm sure that i don't know about as i just watched a thing on tv a few weeks ago. they have NON hybrid cars doing 130+miles on a gallon of gas in competitions or races if you will, however i doubt you could achieve this during every day driving. the tv special i just watched had a 06-08 accord getting 59 miles to the gallon just driving it very consciously and employing some of the above techniques. you can get great gas mileage with any car it really just comes down to a lead foot and when you shift, though a/c and the drag caused by open windows would be a decently sized variable. i personally won't drive my car in the desert i live in without the a/c on.

i definantly cant do the no open windows. its too hot here and i have no ac. as for the "timing the lights" its just not possible at least here since the lights for the cross streets are controlled by approching cars and the level of weight or magnatism generated by the amount of metal that is "sensed"


i may try some of the techniques since im getting tighter on $$. what are some of the techniques i could try?

[This message has been edited by americasfuture2k (edited 06-20-2008).]

quote Originally posted by mrfiero: It's the practice of getting extraordinary fuel economy from your car. Usually involving drafting, coasting (actually turning off your engine at times), etc. Some people are really into it.....most of them probably socially retarded, but I digress.

Socially retarded? If saving money is socially retarded then I AM SOFA KING WE TODD DID

dee ta dee! yay! i got mail!

quote Originally posted by Erik: Socially retarded? If saving money is socially retarded then I AM SOFA KING WE TODD DID

I'm all for saving money too and have employed many of the same techniques these guys use (I get 45 MPG out of my Austin-Healey and have gotten nearly 35 MPG out of a Formula I used to own), but some of the things they do are just plain stupid and dangerous (drafting & turning off their engines while moving to name a couple). Plus it's aggravating to get stuck behind someone accelerating very slowly to get a few extra MPG's. I do, however, coast when I can (engine still running) and turn off my engine at red lights, etc.

I really based the socially retarded quip on an interview I saw on TV with a so-called 'hyper-miler'. He was really into it and you could tell he lived his life solely to achieve super gas mileage and probably had never been on a date in his life.

[This message has been edited by mrfiero (edited 06-20-2008).]

And I thought I was doing good, by just keeping my tires pumped up to the max on the sidewall and runing my timing a few degree's over stock.

My last few tanks have gotten me around 26 mixed city/highway, up about 1.5-2 from my normal 24-24.5 mpg. On downhill stretches and long stretches of road leading up to lights that are normally red I shut off my motor and coast in neutral with my 5spd. My power brake booster stores enough vacuum for three full brake applications so there obviously hasn't been a problem with braking. If I do need brake vacuum I just put it in gear and coast with the engine off. With the engine turning I have vacuum since it doesn't matter if the spark plugs are firing or not to make it. To reduce wear on the starter, most times when I coast I restart the engine after the coast by putting it in gear and spinning the motor up to speed before turning the ignition back on. I do this above 1,500RPM to avoid a "bump" when the injectors start firing again.

I also maintain the highest speed I safely can around corners without using throttle, this reduces the amount of fuel needed to accelerate back to speed after the turn.

JazzMan

Just keep in mind it is illegal in many states for a car to be "off" and rolling on a public road. The main reasons are the brake issue JazzMan just addressed, and steering lock when the key is in the off position. Due to the added distraction, it is considered "reckless conduct" by most statutes. I understand you all know that you need the key in the "On"position to coast and steer. The issue was not caused by us, but rather the thousands of morons who didn't know, and after their serious wrecks (like head on and roll overs), local law enforcement(S) created RSA's to deal with these type of accidents.

Don't delive me? Click the link below. Let me warn you first, it might turn your stomach. It is a bit disorientating listening to the guys panic for 15-20 seconds before the collision. No one seriously hurt or killed. Just freaky witnessing the crash as if you were in the car.

click this link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-xnw568hNo

remember this before you try this with your car. Notice he was steering with no issue, then coming out of the corner it locked up for no reason... they key was in the on position the whole time.

Myke

Drafting doesnt mean riding someones bumper you can be several car lengths back and still get supplemental effects. In my insight I can be several car lengths back from a semi, into what most would consider a normal following distance, and still get 100MPG, or an extra 30 over normal. Same goes with any large vehicle or van. Even following cars at a decent distance makes a diffrence. Pretty much anything that doesnt leave you as the front runner acting as a wind breaker will net a improvement. Its a hard habbit to break though, I always liked being out in front so I could see what was coming.

There are two diffrent types of hypermilling. Extreme and normal. The extreme are either trying to prove a point, or have other issues, and some of the techniques are aggrivating or dangerous.

I drive in the normal aspect. You can still time a light regardless just by knowing how long its been one color, how much traffic is waiting, and best, watching the dont walk signs. Dont piddle around all day trying to get rolling, but dont slam on it if you know there is a car going 20MPH just a little ways up the road. Reasonable drafting is a must, IMO, if I have people driving behind me, I keep right behind the person in front regardless, I dont see any point in pissing people off and causing an accident trying to get 5 MPG more. If theres no one around or behind me, I take it a little easier.

Engine off coasting isnt really dangerous as long as you know how much brake boost you have, and well the Insight has electronic power assist steering so that isnt a factor. Still I mostly just do it when I know I can go a long ways, like in my neighborhood, I know where I can turn off the engine at what MPH and just coast the rest of the way right into my driveway. There is nothing wrong with a "jackrabbit" start, its actually the most efficient, get to speed then drop into a more efficient cruise, its just when you have to stop right away and waste all that momentum.

I dont get anything amazing, 65MPG city and 75ish highway, but its better than the 58MPG lifetime that the previous owner racked up.

I think a lot of it is just realizing the futility of rushing. I can only do this when I have nowhere better to be, but if you think about how much faster you're going to get there if you rushed, youd realize that those few seconds dont really matter. Of course I still get pissed beyond belief when I get behind someone who is incapable of even approaching the speed limit, and is completely oblivious to the line of traffic growing behind them.

Please by safe and courteous while attempting to save gas.

Like jazz I tested my brakes to make sure I had boost stored for braking while costing, and I get about 4 full brakes with no engine. One thing I didn't think about was the steering lock. Luckily when I found out about this it was in a long driveway and I brought the car to a stop with no real consequence, but it was a very humbling experience for the guy who usually over thinks everything.

When there is no one around I coast to lights to save momentum and take starts slow, but never in front of people, this causes phantom traffic jams that wave through everyone behind you.

My dad told me not to coast too much in an auto in neutral because it does not properly circulate the tranny fluid, is that true?

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88 Fiero Formula V6 auto
99 Kawasaki Ninja ZX-6R
99 Nissan Sentra 1.6L 5speed

i dont see how steering wheels lock unless your driving a standard and turn the key all the way back. even turning it back, you should know by the feel when enough is enough. if you cant tell, you should not even be trying it. if your too stoopid to figure that out, you should have your license pulled. people like that should not be driving period

[This message has been edited by americasfuture2k (edited 06-20-2008).]

LOL Doing that around here will either get you killed, or people will throw things at your car while driving by honking. When I first got the tC I spent an entire week driving as "little old lady" as I could, then spent a week flogging the crap out of it. The difference came out to about $3-$4 a tank. It's probably more like $5 a tank by now with gas prices, but to actually enjoy driving to me it's worth the $5 a week.. I never shut the engine off, but I never exceeded the speed limit, and put it in neutral every chance I got. It's amazing how many people you piss off while doing that. I guess I'm one of them. I actually bought an '88 coupe a while back to try and force myself to do this but found myself pushing the little engine too much, just couldn't get used to driving that slow. YMMV

quote Originally posted by americasfuture2k: i dont see how steering wheels lock unless your driving a standard and turn the key all the way back. even turning it back, you should know by the feel when enough is enough. if you cant tell, you should not even be trying it. if your too stoopid to figure that out, you should have your license pulled. people like that should not be driving period

I understand your frustration with the steering lock suggestion.

1 Facts are facts, and some times I roll my key back to turn off the car and keep the radio playing (while stationary) and often it has slipped back too far. I merely brought this up because it CAN happen even if you know what your doing.

2 That was the point of the link I supplied. I only want the member here to be cautious in their attempts to save fuel.

3 Both auto and manual have a steering lock. You should already know this, therefore I am just reminding you of what you already know to tell others who may misread your post.

4 I personally don't know if coasting for a short time (IE 1min.) would be beneficial in an auto. You have to turn the key to start the car back up. I remember reading somewhere that starting car uses more gas than a short idle (IE one min.) Edit: I also think your dad is right about the circulation, but I don't know about it being bad. I am not a transmission man...

5 Stupid is spelled as such. (just kidding with you!)

Myke

[This message has been edited by Myke (edited 06-20-2008).]

If you feather the gas pedal to achieve highest speed from lowest RPM this is basic hiper miling and a good meathod to save gas when there is not a strong wind.. this is best done with a vacuum gage,, but just pedal feel works ..It was common practice when we had expensive gas .50 cent a gallon,, people had less money you feather the throttle to attain 60 mph with the lowest possible rpm ,, the duke will achieve really great MPG at 50 or 55 mph with pedal feathering .. this works best when traffic is light .combine with no tail gateing(waste gas because of stops,slowdowns ) slow take offs and estimating when the light will change so you do not rush to stop..at the stop light..... drafting is dangerous and does not save gas because of slow and go ..
some settings on the cruise control work better than others memory works here to save gas ..
It is work to improve gas miles per gallon over cruise control but can be done .. cruise control saves gas.. they became more popular when gas hit the horrendous $1.00 a gallon . the esmaculation of the oil companies in the 70s is one of the BIG reasons why we pay 4.00 a gallon now ,, Now more money will go down the alternative rat hole when it should go for exploration and cheaper gas !!

Extreme hypermiling is probably illegal in many states, but I have adopted many of the tactics and saw my mileage skyrocket on my daily driver from about 26 mpg to 32 mpg.

I guess I was driving it hard before. I think the biggest contributor is slowing down on the freeway. Driving at the speed limit alone will result in a dramatic improvement.

the extreme sounds like something some tightwad jacka$$ whith no care for others would do.

i made a thread about a diy mpg display i found on hackaday. check it out

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/092769.html

quote Originally posted by jscott1: Extreme hypermiling is probably illegal in many states, but I have adopted many of the tactics and saw my mileage skyrocket on my daily driver from about 26 mpg to 32 mpg. I guess I was driving it hard before. I think the biggest contributor is slowing down on the freeway. Driving at the speed limit alone will result in a dramatic improvement.

26mpg -> 32mpg = ~$8 on a 10gal tank, not too bad... Maybe I need anger management classes to slow down. LOL Myke - I live just a couple miles from GreatWoods / Tweeter Center / Comcast Center / whatever they're going to call it next.. Between there and Gillette stadium. Right now I take back roads to work because driving up the highway is nuts during morning rush hour.. I coast where I can on several hills, I average 25mpg in the tC. Unfortunately my commute is going to get 10 miles shorter but it's all down Rt9 from Boston, which is unpredictable stop and go combined with road rage-causing arses so my mileage will probably drop to 23-ish.. Was getting great mileage when I was coming in and leaving before the rush hours, taking the highway with cruise control. I could also drop the commute from 45min - 30min if I was having a late day.
Funny you should mention the Scangauge.. I had a commercially made one in my last 3800 Fiero and it was awesome! It actually slowed me down since I was always watching the fuel mileage display. Unfortunately the tC is CAN bus instead of OBDII so it doesn't work. I have to wonder how accurate a DIY one would be though..? The commercial one basically reads the ECM's mpg status assuming the ECM supports it. Looks like the DIY one counts the injector pulses and accumulates the amount of gas sprayed. What happens as fuel pressure changes though? Same pulse width, but more gas coming out with more pressure? I guess anything would help as long as it's a decent ballpark #! Hell even watching a vacuum gague would help, that's how they used to do it, right?

They must have hypermiling on that thing!

And what do we got on this thing a cuisine-art??

quote Originally posted by Jakezilla3: My dad told me not to coast too much in an auto in neutral because it does not properly circulate the tranny fluid, is that true?

nope the tranny fluid pump is driven by the convert bolted to the flywheel so as long as you engine is running you got fluid moving

[This message has been edited by pontiacman63383 (edited 06-20-2008).]

I have been to the great-com-tweeter for two concerts and gillette about a year ago. You have a tough commute. When I am on a hill. I shut it down and wait. When traffic moves, I put the clutch out and roll until I am near the base of the hill. When near the bottom, I let the clutch in to start it up again. My lord, I am 40 min. from Boston at the speed limit, but 2 hours away first thing in the morning. This is brutal!!! Big Dig my backside!!!!

PonticacMan63383, While the engine is running, the fluid is circulated. What about turning the ignition off and coasting? Isn't that what he was talking about? Maybe I misread the post. I have thrown the transmission in neutral in an auto while RUNNING because I could think of a reason that it wouldn't be fine. I have never done it with the ignition off because I don't know enough about transmission to TRUST that I wouldn't break anything. (Murphy's law applies to EVERYTHING in my life....)

Myke

if the engine is not running you are not going to have fluid pumping. I assumed he ment just droping it into N before he came to a stop, but if hes cutting the engine then he does not have fluid pumping thought the transmission. Though i due dought that even such a small coast will heat up the trans enough to matter. Now if you cutting it off and costing for X amout of miles at highway speeds you could have a problem there.

I would have to fully agree with you. It seems to me that you are not supposed to tow a car with all 4 tires on the ground. (I might be wrong, but I thought one of my wrecker friends told me this) By towing on all four, you can cause transmision issues (or at least in the auto's) A car should be towed with either non drive tires on the ground, or on a bed. So logically, to me at least, coasting with the engine off would be the same as towing on all four.

Then again, I think have seen motor homes dragging cars on all four. Maybe I am off base with the towing?

Hmm, this is interesting. I wonder what, if any, damage could ensue from rolling with the engine off for long periods... Would hypermilling be worth the long term cost if so?

i was just thinking of hypermiling. at the time it does save you gas, but those who do it all of their vehicles lives is probably bad and the engine wont last as long. i mean by being very easy on it, your allowing carbon to build up. and if it is never roughly accelerated at least a few times per tank that carbon is just going to build up even more and it will be tougher to remove once it is realized with hard acceleration on things like seafoam.

Theres a diffrence between coasting for a few hundred feet and towing for 20 miles with the wheels on the ground. I wouldnt reccomend routinely coasting engine off with an auto, but theoretically it shouldnt hurt too much, seeing as there will be oil on the bearings and everything, just once it goes, there is no more to replace it. So I wouldnt reccomend it, but if you needed to say coast down a long hill in stop and go traffic, I wouldnt think twice about it.

Ive seen a Saab towed wheels down, eventually the wrecker had to stop and flip the car beacuse the wheels were locking up going down the road. We couldnt even get it into the shop. Im not sure how he managed to "drive" it across the parking lot to Aamco, but I know it cost the wrecker about 3k.

As for the effect on the engine, you're probably right Ive heard of northstars eating oil because they never see much more than idle (old people + cadillacs), so the rings gum up and oil slips by. From what I've heard the solution is to take it out and rape it for a bit.

But, if you're hypermilling right, you should be on it quite often. The most efficicent way to run an engine is at WOT. So whenever you're coming up to speed you should be nailing it. Granted this is mostly just on highway onramps or stop lights on 55mph roads, but still. In town, when prudent, I accellerate as fast as reasonably possible to the speed limit, then drop to a light cruise. Its more efficient to do that in an Insight at least.

quote Originally posted by 86GT3.4DOHC: The most efficicent way to run an engine is at WOT. So whenever you're coming up to speed you should be nailing it.

This seems counter-intuitive, but you are right. It's called a throttle for a reason. You are choking off the airflow. If you could drive everywhere at WOT it would save a lot of gas. Let's get a law that outlaws the throttle and just have a "GO" switch.

throttle on. throttle off.

i can see many women causing small nuclear like accidents with their hydrogen cars. sounds like population control to me

As Evil says, it's driving like you are 100 years old so you get 100mpg on your hybrid car. I have a Prius and I too can get 100 mpg if I drive 5 miles per hour all day long. But that's nonsense, I work 57 miles from home and travel 20 miles on slower roads (55 and below) and 37 miles on highways (60-75 mph). My daily routine over the past 3,000 has averaged 51+ miles per gallon. Without inconvencing everyone else on the road, that's good enough. The hypermilers who screw up traffic with their ego trip quest should be pushed off the road.

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quote Originally posted by mrfiero: It's the practice of getting extraordinary fuel economy from your car. Usually involving drafting, coasting (actually turning off your engine at times), etc. Some people are really into it.....most of them probably socially retarded, but I digress.

True, it can also lead to greater reaction time in an emergency IMO. But it all depends on the person individually.

ive tried doing it. it seems like a waste to me really. going slower than is necessary. and if you want to do it by how the hardcore guys do it, then you will be running red lights and stop signs. that is being an unsafe driver. and then babying a motor from brand new will drasticly shorton its life. just take it easier than you normally would. change your driving habits. ive done that and already noticed a bit of a difference. 35 mpg on my last tank in my aveo. but its a stick, and liking to drive the way i do will drop me back down to 28mpg at the worse. its not that bad even then.

I thought all cars did this because all of mine do, but maybe its because all of my cars other than the Fiero have always been foreign.

Many vehicles shut off the fuel supply to the engine when coasting above a set speed, usually 25 or 35 mph. This is factory preset to achieve better gas mileage. So shutting off the engine is useless, although I suppose you could toss it into neutral to reduce drag but then the fuel supply kicks back in to keep the engine powered. I don't know if the Fiero does this, or the American 3, but all of my cars do it. It might even be in the owners manuals, I would have to check.

Me, I still run 90+ on the highway, always 93 octane due to the turbo cars and don't give a rats a$$ about gas prices. A couple extra bucks per tank isn't going to amount to much.

[This message has been edited by Rainman (edited 06-25-2008).]

quote Originally posted by jscott1: This seems counter-intuitive, but you are right. It's called a throttle for a reason. You are choking off the airflow. If you could drive everywhere at WOT it would save a lot of gas. Let's get a law that outlaws the throttle and just have a "GO" switch.

It's actually correct theoretically but not in actuality due to the way the fuel maps are done. On most engines at WOT the ECM richens the mixture to the twelves and doesn't use feedback from the O2 sensor. This means that whatever pumping efficiency gains you may get will be more than wiped out by the extra fuel used with that rich of a mixture. The only time WOT could buy you efficiency is with fuel maps and ECM designed to use a wide-band O2 sensor which is more accurate off stochiometric.

JazzMan

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: It's actually correct theoretically but not in actuality due to the way the fuel maps are done. On most engines at WOT the ECM richens the mixture to the twelves and doesn't use feedback from the O2 sensor. This means that whatever pumping efficiency gains you may get will be more than wiped out by the extra fuel used with that rich of a mixture. The only time WOT could buy you efficiency is with fuel maps and ECM designed to use a wide-band O2 sensor which is more accurate off stochiometric. JazzMan

That is a much too intelligent response to my post, which was largely written tongue-in-cheek.

Even if you had an engine that could take credit for the increase in pumping efficiency of WOT, it would be impossible to control an engine running at wide open throttle. And even if you could, it would be very wasteful for your engine to be generating maximum horsepower, when only a fraction of that is needed.

quote Originally posted by jscott1: Just saw on the news this morning a hypermiler driving a Prius got pulled over for driving too slow on the freeway; he was going 50 mph on I-95.

If that guy got in my way he would know it. Probably flashing headlights and horn. If you can't make freeway speeds, drive the state roads.

quote Originally posted by Riceburner98: LOL Doing that around here will either get you killed, or people will throw things at your car while driving by honking. When I first got the tC I spent an entire week driving as "little old lady" as I could, then spent a week flogging the crap out of it. The difference came out to about $3-$4 a tank. It's probably more like $5 a tank by now with gas prices, but to actually enjoy driving to me it's worth the $5 a week.. I never shut the engine off, but I never exceeded the speed limit, and put it in neutral every chance I got. It's amazing how many people you piss off while doing that. I guess I'm one of them. I actually bought an '88 coupe a while back to try and force myself to do this but found myself pushing the little engine too much, just couldn't get used to driving that slow. YMMV

no - just do it in the right lane. slow traffic keep right.

anyways - from what I can see here - "hypermiling" is the art of getting the rated MPG of a car? hmpf - not impressed....

I thought maybe is was putting alot of miles on your car. other than the 'coasting' part - you are doing what they do when they test the MPG of the car in the first place. after all, they are trying to achieve the best number they can. and know how to do it. everything else is just good habits.