Hi Guys, Well I can't figure this one out. About a month ago the heads were pulled on my 85 2.8 GT. The gaskets were replaced and it has never run right since. Actually, now it does not run at all. It gradually lost power then It turns over, but no firing.
Here what has been replaced: ECM Plugs Wires MAP TPS Ground wire Injectors Fuel filter Cap Coil Distributor (got a new style used one from someone on here) Ignition module Lifters Relashed lifters
I have double checked the plug wire sequence and the injector electrical connections.
RPM gauge does not show any RPMs when cranking
Check engine light comes on when ignition turned on.
Fuel pump heard.
Checked for TBC compression with pressure gauge and screw driver test
I find fuel as I should in the rail, but I do note the the pressure is 35 at the schrader valve.
Fuses for ECM and fuel injectors are good.
Rotor turns with engine.
Timing chain???
Have a Snap On MT 2400 scope coming to help on this one
You thoughts are welcome!
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Pretty impressive.....
Avatar is of an actual Fiero on fire
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10:57 PM
PFF
System Bot
vamper Member
Posts: 291 From: belvidere illinois 61008 Registered: Dec 2005
Lets say that I am 180 off. Can I just take out and rotate the distributor 180?
If I am 180 off, will any of the marks on the balancer line up with the timing gauge?
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just throwing this out there but does the motor have a good ground? not sure if this would cause this problem or not but if this happend after a head change i can't see all of these other things going wrong at the same time.
just throwing this out there but does the motor have a good ground? not sure if this would cause this problem or not but if this happend after a head change i can't see all of these other things going wrong at the same time.
just my .02 hope it helps
joe
Actually, funny you should mention it. The mechanic who put the head gaskets on failed to tighten the ground on the back of the engine. I tightened it, but the problem continues.
Put the old distributor, coil, module and cap back on. When this kind of thing happens one of the easiest solutions is to restore the engine as close as possible within reason back to where it was when you could actually crank it and get it to run. By having changed so many crucial parts to keep an engine running at once it leaves a lot of room for making a single bad part hard to find. New and like new parts are not immune to being bad at or shortly after installation.
I don't recall what you actually measured for compression but it's important for valve adjustment to be correct and although the pump primes on power up it doesn't mean the injectors are pulsing during cranking. A quick test is a little starting fluid in the throttle body while cranking, if it fires you know it's not getting fuel. You have to be very careful with that stuff though and only use a small amount.
If the distributor is 180 deg off it doesn't matter where the balancer marks are as far as turning it 180 deg if the general setting is within the needed tolerance for the engine to start. It does need to be timed correctly of course.
[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 06-04-2008).]
Put the old distributor, coil, module and cap back on. When this kind of thing happens one of the easiest solutions is to restore the engine as close as possible within reason back to where it was when you could actually crank it and get it to run. By having changed so many crucial parts to keep an engine running at once it leaves a lot of room for making a single bad part hard to find. New and like new parts are not immune to being bad at or shortly after installation.
I don't recall what you actually measured for compression but it's important for valve adjustment to be correct and although the pump primes on power up it doesn't mean the injectors are pulsing during cranking. A quick test is a little starting fluid in the throttle body while cranking, if it fires you know it's not getting fuel. You have to be very careful with that stuff though and only use a small amount.
If the distributor is 180 deg off it doesn't matter where the balancer marks are as far as turning it 180 deg if the general setting is within the needed tolerance for the engine to start. It does need to be timed correctly of course.
if the distributor is 180 off you will have spark druing the exhaust stroke. the marks will match on the crank but remember the crank rotates 2 times for every 1 ignition.
If you have an old xmas light pull an injector plug and put the light in, or a test light, it should flicker, new injectors should mean if they are getting pulse they will spray, but this is not always the case if you can pull an injector and rotate the motor once or twice and make sure they are spraying underpressure
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01:36 PM
Jun 5th, 2008
Mickey_Moose Member
Posts: 7357 From: Edmonton, AB, Canada Registered: May 2001
If you're not getting RPM when cranking, then either the pickup coil or the ignition module is not working, plain and simple. Get RPMs when cranking, then you can go from there.
First I would check all connections on the ICM and PUC, then take the ICM into a parts store to have it tested, and test the PUC per the haynes manual.
Replace as needed. If both test good, replace one or the other.
i had a problem like this. I was going down the road and the tach quit the a couple of miles the car died completely. thought that it was the ign. module so replaced it and still nothing. so after some searching i found that two wires going to the c500 had fell across the wp pulley and been cut. one for the tach and the other for the power to the ecm. tied the wires back together and it fired right up. my situiation will probably differ from yours but i would check for something like that. make sure that your ecm is getting power to it.
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11:38 PM
Jun 6th, 2008
Mickey_Moose Member
Posts: 7357 From: Edmonton, AB, Canada Registered: May 2001
Originally posted by NashvilleFiero: Any particular ones?
All of them that are near the C500 (since there are easy to get to) - but specifically the ECM one. Make sure you have all the power going to the ECM (easy check if you have a scanner and you can scan the car - or jumper out the ALDL plug and see if it goes into diagnostic mode and shows any code or the all ok one). Also check your fuses. Make sure you have 12v at the coil (BAT terminal).
Then next I would make sure your coil and ignition module are good and then pickup coil - just because you changed them does not mean they are good unless you know they work for sure - there is no guarentee with used parts (have them tested). Since you pulled the distributor, are you sure it is installed correctly? If not you will have to find TDC and check it to make sure it is right.
Check fuel pressure (maybe clogged filter, bad regulator or bad pulsator). If you have 12 volts at the injector connector it should fire unless you have an ECM or wiring problem (the injector turns on when the ECM grounds the other side of the injector plug).
In your original post, the indication of you gradualling losing power indicates to me a fuel problem or pickup coil - usually when the module or coil fails, it happens right now and not over time (there have been exceptions, but it is not the norm).
Try starting fluid. Then you will know if it is a fuel problem or not.
I will try this. I did find fuel in the rail when I tore it down to the lifters.
In Australia they have a brand of this called "Start Ya Bastard!" LOL
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All of them that are near the C500 (since there are easy to get to) - but specifically the ECM one. Make sure you have all the power going to the ECM (easy check if you have a scanner and you can scan the car - or jumper out the ALDL plug and see if it goes into diagnostic mode and shows any code or the all ok one). Also check your fuses. Make sure you have 12v at the coil (BAT terminal).
Then next I would make sure your coil and ignition module are good and then pickup coil - just because you changed them does not mean they are good unless you know they work for sure - there is no guarentee with used parts (have them tested). Since you pulled the distributor, are you sure it is installed correctly? If not you will have to find TDC and check it to make sure it is right.
Check fuel pressure (maybe clogged filter, bad regulator or bad pulsator). If you have 12 volts at the injector connector it should fire unless you have an ECM or wiring problem (the injector turns on when the ECM grounds the other side of the injector plug).
In your original post, the indication of you gradualling losing power indicates to me a fuel problem or pickup coil - usually when the module or coil fails, it happens right now and not over time (there have been exceptions, but it is not the norm).
Good points. I will check these with my new Snap-On Vantage Graphing DMM and diagnostic software Woo Hoo!
Injectors are brand spanking new.
I think I MAY, and I say may, have found the problem. The white wire off of the pick up coil got caught between the cap and the distributor base. Could not be see, since it as in the back. I found two crimps in the wire. It may have grounded out.
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Bad ignition module, pick up coil or connections to them.
i am going to double check this tomorrow. I will inject a signal with my scope in the ignition module and see what comes out. I think I may have crimped (grounded out) the white pick up coil wire. : ( Hope I did not fry it. Thanks for your reply.
