I was at the gas station today, filling up the fiero, and the guy on the other side of the pump noticed my car and asked, "Does it have the v6?". I always happy to chat with people who are curious about my car so I told him that it does does and I enjoy it very much. He asked me if I got a K&N filter. I told him I don't have a K&N filter. He told me that he got one and after a couple weeks he noticed he was spending less on gas, while driving just as much. Now i'm your typical dirt-poor college student, so any way to increase fuel economy is fine by me, but 50 bucks seems a bit steep for a filter. I know they last forever but 50 bucks right this instant is alot more than a couple hundered spent over my lifetime on another brand. I want to hear from people who have K&N filters and have noticed better fuel economy from a v6 fiero before I consider any investment.

i used to use them but noticed no difference in fuel econonmy or power. I talked right to the K&N guys at the Sema show a few years ago and since then (for certain reasons) i quit using them. Many people will dis-agree with me but remember K&N has a huge advertising budget.

I would say that a new and clean K&N filter will increase gas mileage as well as any other new clean air filter will. The Fiero air filter is not restrictive and is efficient. According to dyno tests done by racer Herb Adams several years ago even removal of the air filter has no effect on horsepower. .

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87GT - with 3800SC Series III engine, 4T65eHD
87GT - 3.4L Turbocharged engine, modified TH125H
" I'M ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

If I was dunb enough to spend $50 thinking it would increase milage, I would swear it did too.

Save your money.

They do make your car louder. I have one in my car solely because I liked the sucking noise you hear from it. They also let in more dirt than a regular filter. They have larger holes (micron size of the elemant) than a paper filter. I was not worried about that because I will never drive my car enough for it to be an issue with wear.

I see another K&N debate about to start.

[This message has been edited by Electrathon (edited 04-22-2008).]

I love the noise it makes too. It's like a wind tunnel w/ a little turbine. Low throaty sound at full throttle. I get asked a lot if it has a turbo........ I wish!

I would say it makes you step on it more, thus wasting gas. I do feel a better breathing engine though. - some increase in power. I don't have the stock tubing though either.





I also run a K&N in my daily driver 4x truck and it has 185,000 on it. I like the fact that you can clean then re-apply the oil and wala... brand new ---kinda

The oil in a reusable filter will get in the mass air flow sensor and it WILL take out an automatic transmission. I've seen it happen several times and even happened to my mechanic's wrecker (4L80E). GM strictly says do not use them. My truck doesn't get even slightly better mileage with a K&N and an open dual exhaust. I'm going to take the K&N out, having a good 4L60E at 145K is doing pretty good and it isn't work the gamble.

well regardless of gains the one nice thing is they do last a long time and can be cleaned out when ever you want and that will help keep your car breathing better.

Your right about the mass air sensor. That's why you let it dry as much as possible. I learned the hard way with another car I had once. Wasn't major though.

quote Originally posted by MordacP: Now i'm your typical dirt-poor college student, so any way to increase fuel economy is fine by me, but 50 bucks seems a bit steep for a filter.

Here, try these. Same type of filter - Fram AirHog - 20 bucks for two including shipping. Seems like a deal to me!

We never cleaned ours, I'm talking about straight out of the box. I don't buy that it is cleaning the air much when you don't have to clean it for 100,000 miles. On another note the other stupid air cleaner idea is the cold (hot, dirty) air intake. You have to draw air from somewhere other than directly from the engine bay.

That's why I have the extension into the wheel wheel area... Soon to be installed are stage II scoops too.

Replacing the stock filter with a K&N version doesn't really do a whole lot except make it so you never need to buy a filter since you can clean the K&N. I have a K&N on all my vehicles.

On the BMW, I have had it on for about 4 of the 6 years we've had it. I have not noticed any "real" gains. It may have helped highway MPG by maybe .5 if at all.

On the other hand, I installed the K&N cold air kit on our minivan and MPG and power both increased. The highway MPG went from 21 to 26 mpg and you can feel the power has increased a little. Mostly this is because the stock air cleaner assembly and tube were more restrictive than the K&N set-up. The K&N setup repalces everything from the TB to the front of the van. I would be willing to bet I could have used any other brand filter with the CAI kit and achieved the same results because I would guess that the air filter intake assembly has more to do with the increases than the actual filter material.

On my Fiero, I have not run anything other than the K&N with either carb'd engine so I have no reference to base if I had any gains or not.

If K&N makes a CAI kit for the vehicle, It will most likely improve milage and/or power a little. A stock replacement will do less.

A couple years ago a buddy of mine put his car, not a Fiero, on a dyno. He has a fairly strong 401ci V8. When he switched from a typical open style air cleaner to a K&N (of the same physical size) he picked up about 10HP; he was running about 350RWHP at the time. They certainly do flow more air than a standard paper filter. I have always wondered about how well they filter the air though.

Rick

quote Originally posted by FieroBrad87: The oil in a reusable filter will get in the mass air flow sensor and it WILL take out an automatic transmission.

Anyone care to explain this one? Makes no sense to me at all. Mass air flow sensor, maybe if you install it soaking wet you would have to clean it more often.

How does an air filter take out a transmission?

Comments like this sound like something I expect from a salesman for another product.

well, if the filter which is being replaced is totally gunked over - heck yeah a K&N filter will help - as would any other clean filter.
but - yes - K&N filters do flow more air because they filter less junk.

quote Originally posted by SCCAFiero: Anyone care to explain this one? Makes no sense to me at all. Mass air flow sensor, maybe if you install it soaking wet you would have to clean it more often. How does an air filter take out a transmission? Comments like this sound like something I expect from a salesman for another product.

The problem is the fellas who install the K&N, pre-suppose that (incorrectly), that the oil used to trap the microns of dirt, hence a better fuel burn, one should slop on more oil. More oil on the filter pushes the excess gunk in the TP. Use the oil in the box responsibly.

Kevin

Think how well a sheet of paper with some cuts filters air... (Fram style)
I have done some filter experimenting on go-kart engine and I have taken the head off after use of a paper air filter then a foam with oil. Well, the paper air filter let in quite a bit of dirt while the engine with foam one did not have any visible scratches in the cylinder.

We have done this with motorcycles as well and K&N works very well.

My dad soaked his K&N in his jeep a bit too much and the MAF is still perfectly fine.

[This message has been edited by skstibi (edited 04-22-2008).]

It was actually the o2 sensors that would fail because of the wet oil on mine not the mass air sensor....my bad on a previous post.. Still an easy fix and when you install it, make sure it's dry. That's all.

Have used K&N reusable filters for quite a while on all of my vehicles and haven't seen any ill effects. I doubt that it will kill a MAF except if it is very wet and if oiled that shouldn't kill the O2 sensor either. O2 sensors can tolerate a certain amount of oil smoke. Its Octane boosters that they seem sensitive to.

------------------
87GT - with 3800SC Series III engine, 4T65eHD
87GT - 3.4L Turbocharged engine, modified TH125H
" I'M ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

K&N filters CANNOT increase mileage.

Cruising at a fixed speed requires throttling the engine. All throttling does is add a restriction to the engine to lessen cylinder filling. If you lessen the restriction associated with the air filter then you'll end up cruising with the throttle farther closed, adding the same restriction right back into the system. Watch your MAP readings while driving to confirm this.

I would be very surprised if you saw any gain power-wise switching from paper to K&N. I only saw +1.8 hp on the dyno going from paper filter to no filter at all, so take filter gains with a grain of salt.

I can see how filter oil could mess up a hotwire style MAF, but the fiero uses a MAP sensor way in the back of the upper manifold. Oil wont hurt that.

I have heard that K&N filters work better as filters, and I've heard that they dont filter anything. The ones who say they work better base it on experience and observations, while people who say they dont filter seem like they're guessing.

Nobody thinks that the filter alone can increase gas mileage, but all the K&N owners like that they can clean and re-use the filter. It will eventually pay for itself in money saved on other filters.

I'm getting paid next week, all my expenses are taken care of for this month. Maybe i'll get myself a K&N...
But please keep the discussion going.

quote Originally posted by FieroBrad87:The oil in a reusable filter will get in the mass air flow sensor and it WILL take out an automatic transmission.  I've seen it happen several times and even happened to my mechanic's wrecker (4L80E).  GM strictly says do not use them.  My truck doesn't get even slightly better mileage with a K&N and an open dual exhaust.  I'm going to take the K&N out, having a good 4L60E at 145K is doing pretty good and it isn't work the gamble.

First i have to say that this made no sence to me but i checked and there is a gm tsb on this causeing trans problems and maf sensor problems now as was said by others this has to do with over oiling the filter. and as for the trans i have the feeling that this is on the full electornic trans it must effect input enough to cause some controls on the trans, thats just my guess on the trans part of it as for the maf you can clean them very carefully there is a bulletin on that as well. for what its all worth i copy and pasted the gm tsb from mitchell.

Ant

Edit: note that this DOES NOT void the gm warrenty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Automatic Transmission Shift, Engine Driveability Concerns or Service Engine Soon (SE ...
Automatic Transmission Shift, Engine Driveability Concerns or Service Engine Soon (SES) Light On as a Result of the Use of an Excessively/Over-Oiled Aftermarket, Reusable Air Filter
TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN
Reference Number(s): 04-07-30-013B, Date of Issue:  February 01, 2007 Affected Model(s): Supercedes: This bulletin is being revised to add models and model years. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 04-07-30-013A (Section 07 - Transmission/Transaxle). 2007 and Prior GM Cars and Light Duty Trucks; 2007 and Prior Saturn Models; 2003-2007 HUMMER H2; 2006-2007 HUMMER H3; 2005-2007 Saab 9-7X
ARTICLE BEGINNING
SERVICE INFORMATION
Correction
DO THIS First, Inspect the vehicle for a reusable aftermarket excessively/over- oiled air filter
DON'T DO THIS DO NOT repair MAF sensors under warranty if concerns result from the use of an excessively/over-oiled aftermarket, reusable air filter.
The use of an excessively/over-oiled aftermarket, reusable air filter may result in:
 Service Engine Soon (SES) light on
 Transmission shift concerns, slipping and damaged clutch(es) or band(s)
 Engine driveability concerns, poor acceleration from a stop, limited engine RPM range
The oil that is used on these air filter elements may be transferred onto the Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor causing contamination of the sensor. As a result, the Grams per Second (GPS) signal from the MAF may be low and any or all of the concerns listed above may occur.
When servicing a vehicle with any of these concerns, be sure to check for the presence of an aftermarket reusable, excessively/over- oiled air filter. The MAF, GPS reading should be compared to a like vehicle with an OEM air box and filter under the same driving conditions to verify the concern.
The use of an aftermarket reusable air filter DOES NOT void the vehicle's warranty.
If an aftermarket reusable air filter is used, technicians should inspect the MAF sensor element and the air induction hose for contamination of oil prior to making warranty repairs.
Transmission or engine driveability concerns (related to the MAF sensor being contaminated with oil) that are the result of the use of an aftermarket reusable, excessively/over-oiled air filter are not considered to be warrantable repair items.
© 2007 Mitchell Repair Information Co., LLC.

[This message has been edited by Ants87gt (edited 04-23-2008).]

Okay, I admit I'm rather surprised that my earlier post was ignored completely. I thought someone would be pleased to see these air filters available for such a good price.

Is it everyone's opinion here that the Fram AirHog filter is so bad that it doesn't even deserve mention in a thread regarding the merits of K&N filters?

quote Originally posted by Patrick: Here, try these. Same type of filter - Fram AirHog - 20 bucks for two including shipping. Seems like a deal to me!

"i'm your typical dirt-poor college student"

I'm also a dirt-poor college student, stay away from the K&N filter, just make sure your car has a good tune-up.
you know, the typical spark plugs, oil change, fuel filter, air filter, spark plug wires.

Save your money for expensive text books

The problem with you fighting me about getting oil in the MAF sensor is that the transmission won't "act up" it will just explode. No second chances. If I thought there was some benefit to a reuseable filter I wouldn't have a problem with it but there just isn't. You would probably get more benefit by removing the exhaust as long as it didn't confuse the ECM. Nothing good comes easy.

The only reason I use K&N is because they dont get hurt by water. If I have a car thats got any chance of injesting water during rain, Ill use one. Otherwise I pretty much just use OEM filters. Stock Fiero air intake system gets a lot of water especially if you removed the baffle. Just look in the air filter canister and check out how much rust is there. Ive seen paper filters in there almost completely soaked to the point no air gets thru.

quote Originally posted by KurtAKX: K&N filters CANNOT increase mileage.

What he said.

You might gain power, but you won't gain mileage. The whole "changing your air filter gains you MPG" thing is a fraud perpetuated by the air filter industry.

[This message has been edited by ryan.hess (edited 04-23-2008).]

quote Originally posted by MordacP: do K&N filters improve fuel economy?

No.

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: The whole "changing your air filter gains you MPG" thing is a fraud perpetuated by the air filter industry.

On a carbureted engine, a very dirty air filter actually can cause the engine to run slightly rich, which will adversely affect fuel economy. In a modern fuel-injected engine, with feedback provided by the O2 sensor, this becomes a non-issue. Just one advantage of computer controlled fuel and ignition systems.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 04-23-2008).]

quote Originally posted by Marvin McInnis: On a carbureted engine, a very dirty air filter actually can cause the engine to run slightly rich, which will adversely affect fuel economy. In a modern fuel-injected engine, with feedback provided by the O2 sensor, this becomes a non-issue. Just one advantage of computer controlled fuel and ignition systems.

A dirty air filter on an EFI engine will affect fuel economy as it will restrict flow and reduce power. It can still run "rich" if the airfilter is dirty enough to restrict air outside the parameters of the programming. EFI can only make corrections within the parameters of the programming.

quote Originally posted by Marvin McInnis: On a carbureted engine, a very dirty air filter actually can cause the engine to run slightly rich, which will adversely affect fuel economy. In a modern fuel-injected engine, with feedback provided by the O2 sensor, this becomes a non-issue. Just one advantage of computer controlled fuel and ignition systems.

Touché..... I forgot those things still existed.

i see no change in power or sound from a paper filter or a airhog
my engine is loud though

quote Originally posted by Oreif: A dirty air filter on an EFI engine will affect fuel economy as it will restrict flow and reduce power.

If it affects your fuel economy, then it's probably so clogged it can't idle. I don't think that's a concern unless you go mudding.

quote Originally posted by FieroBrad87: The problem with you fighting me about getting oil in the MAF sensor is that the transmission won't "act up" it will just explode. No second chances. If I thought there was some benefit to a reuseable filter I wouldn't have a problem with it but there just isn't. You would probably get more benefit by removing the exhaust as long as it didn't confuse the ECM. Nothing good comes easy.

Not to cause an argument but i have worked on a lot of cars with K&N air cleaners on them ( I own a repair shop and have worked on cars as a mechanic for 18years) and have yet to see a trans "explode" from an air filter. thats the reason that i checked the tsb to see if there were anything about this as a real concern ot not. if you note GM says that this is only a problem with over oiled filters or improperly oiled filters not that all of these filters cause this problem and they only released this bulliten late 2007 these filters have been out there for years are we to belive that gm has just figured out that they are a problem? also if you have a hydrolic control trans like i believe the fieros had i cannot see how the filter could cause any problem to the trans at all since it builds pressure based on throttle position cable not on ecm commands. so its not an issue for them. but if you feel better without one sounds good to me, also don't get me wrong i am in no way singing the praises of k&n at all i just like to see realistic info on here.

Ant

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: If it affects your fuel economy, then it's probably so clogged it can't idle.

As with any restriction, It may not restrict much at low RPM, But when the higher flow at a higher RPM is needed is when it would affect it. So it may idle fine but at say 2500-2800 rpm while cruising down the highway it could restrict the flow. Look at the 3.4L with a restrictive intake, It idles fine but at the upper RPM range it restricts and most find it running rich and the chip requires remapping to correct it. It does not have to be "clogged".

Even a catalytic converter that is starting to clog will cause an engine to run richer regardless if it is carb'd or EFI.

NO ! !