Let me start by giving the background:


I have a 3.4 DOHC engine on an engine stand in my garage with an ECU and all the engine related swap parts to make a California smog legal swap. Other things I have ready to install into my cadidate car: 88 cradle, 88 cradle adaptor plates + coilovers, stage 2 clutch, aluminum flywheel.

I currently have a 85GT with a 4 speed manaual. The bad on this car is that the interrior is horrible ie seats are torn, dash badly cracked, missing parts, carpet stained. It needs a new paint job, it is currently spray can primered (not by me). Also, there are a few outer trim pieces missing. Clutch is bad in the car but otherwise is in excellent mechanical condition.

I am considering a couple of options of buying another Fiero to do the swap with:

Option A $700
85 GT
Good: Car already smog certified for a 3.4 DOHC.
Bad: It has no transmission, drive shafts, clutch/brake/gas pedals, shifter cables, shifter arms, clutch master or slave cyclinder or even a clutch line. Paint is badly ozidized and the interior has a couple of tears and the dash is cracked. Car would have to be flat bedded 50 miles to my house.

Option B $1350
87 GT
I am going by the owner's word on this car but I will be seeing it on Saturday.
Good: Car has decent (faded) paint with no scratches or oxidation. Interior is in excellent shape. Owner says he will buy back the engine since I won't be using it. It can be driven to my house.
Bad: Owner claims the pressure plate is bad. I would have to go through the referee process and get the car smog certified. Owner claims he has the paperwork for the car but no title. He says that he bought it from a tow yard and can get the title anytime by turning in the paperwork. I am not familiar with this process so I am a little leery of it.


Both prices are asking prices. I can probably offer less.


Option C
Use my current fiero
Good: It if free. I know the car and know it has a good transmission. I would be able to recoup some costs by selling off some parts not used such as sprint manifolds.
Bad: Paint and interior will require thousands of dollars worth of work to get it looking decent. No AC.


If I go with option A or B, then I can put a stock clutch into my current Fiero and sell it as a whole or I could part the car out.


Which option do you think would be the best?

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85 Fiero GT with 1.6 rocker arms, aluminum flywheel, Sprint Headers, Thermotech Black Satin Exhaust coating, WCF clutch, SS brake lines, Rear anti-sway bar, KYB shocks, K&N air filter, removed water seperator.
Removed: complete A/C system, Cruise control, coil/alternator fan
92 Dodge Stealth RT TT with too many mods to list

Thats a good deal on a fastback. but id make him show a title before I show/give any cash. Paint is a given on most fiero's esp in the 1k price area. PLus i like the getrag more than the muncie just a personal preference. If you are doing an engine swap no reason to not replace the PP clutch and such.

[This message has been edited by linuxpowered88 (edited 04-21-2008).]

Let's say that this is indeed the only good aspect of Option A:

quote Originally posted by Doug85GT: Option A $700 85 GT Good: Car already smog certified for a 3.4 DOHC.

I've two reservations about Option A.

1. I'm not familiar with California's emissions laws, so this question may be a naive one. How does this gentleman get his car emissions-certified if it doesn't even have a transmission, not to mention a host of so many other missing parts that the car will be undriveable without replacing all those parts?
   
   
2. Even if it is indeed emissions-certified, it's not your DOHC engine that's been smog-certified. It's somebody else's, right? So how does that help you? California would let you off the hook because somebody else's DOHC was smog-certified? What's to then stop you from installing in that Fiero the baddest, most powerful, most emissions-unfriendly DOHC ever imagined? I'm skeptical that California's answer would be "Nothing!" That would seem a regulatory loophole big enough to drive a bus through, and maybe I'm wrong about this, but that also would seem just too good to be true.

Knowing nothing more about it than what you've said so far, I like Option B better --- except for the seller's comment:

quote Originally posted by Doug85GT: Option B ....Owner claims he has the paperwork for the car but no title. He says that he bought it from a tow yard and can get the title anytime by turning in the paperwork.

If it's so easy for him to get the title, why doesn't he do it? After all, he's trying to sell you a car, not a donut. Until he can produce a title, I don't blame you for being leery of this one.

As for Option C (retain your current Fiero), I think you've already talked yourself out of that, and probbaly for some good reasons, most preceded by dollar signs.

By the way, do the other cars have air? If so, and if Option B's seller can produce a clean title, that sounds like the best of your three current choices so far IMHO.

From what I can see here....
All three cars would need paint to look great....Option B might not to be a DD.
Your car needs interior work.....but you are looking at a great resource for interior pieces.

I too am not familiar with the CA smog stuff....but would think the final results would be just as difficult in that car as any of the others. With that in mind, I would count Option A out.

Option B isn't an option until he produces a title. Once he does that, this looks good. I agree with Linuxpowered....no money comes out of your pocket until you see a title.

I like Option C myself, but I don't know how bad your car is either.

You can have a very nice interior and exterior for 1k if you do it all yourself and shop wisely.

Use seats from another car. I'm partial to Blazer seats All the other interior parts are plentiful

Then all you need to pay for is sandpaper and paint

Option B sounds like the way to go "IF" the owner can come up with the title.

quote Originally posted by CowsPatoot: Option B isn't an option until he produces a title. Once he does that, this looks good. I agree with Linuxpowered....no money comes out of your pocket until you see a title.

Actually no. I'd offer the guy asking price with title. without title I'd give him $300.00 make that offer. No title makes the car worth 1/5th to 1/10th the asking price. take that advantage and keep mentioning that the paperwork means nothing a title means everything.

say, " go get the title and let me know when you have it and I'll come with the cash that day." Otherwise take out $300.00 and say, I'll take it as it is without title for $300.00.

timgray the only thing I would be worried about is buying stolen property. No reason he can't get a title if its clean. It maybe a salvage title etc but should still be able to produce something. Here in TN if you buy something and its stolen property you are committing a crime too unless you can prove you didn't know it was stolen property. Quit often if something is dirt cheap then its suspension enough to press charges.

Thank you to everyone for you input. I'll give a little more information here about option A.

The car would still have to pass a smog inspection that includes a visual inspection every 2 years. It is legal to take a car that is smog certified and replace the engine that it was certified with the same engine. It had a 92 DOHC engine in it and I am replacing it with a 91 DOHC engine.

The main advantage is that I would not have to go through the inspection process where the inspector goes over the car with a fine tooth comb looking for any little thing to fail you. I hear they will fail you on the first time no matter how professionally done your car looks.


With option B, I certainly will not exchange money unless there is a title. I guess my main concern there is how long will it take the seller to get the paperwork done. I don't want to wait 3 months for him to find the paperwork and then another months for DMV to process it. If I tell him that I will buy it, I'm going to give him 2 weeks to come up with the title or the deal is off.


Option C is possible. It will just take a lot more work. The original color of the car is silver. One of the previous owners got a cheap red paint job where they pained everything red, all the trim pieces, the molding, everthing. Then on top of that it is spray can primered. The cheap red paint is cracking and flaking off. There are also some plastic parts that are cracked. The bumper also looks a little caved in. To do it right, I am going to have to sand the car down to at least the original paint.


I may just start looking for another car. There are a few candidates in my area.

quote Originally posted by Doug85GT: The main advantage is that I would not have to go through the inspection process where the inspector goes over the car with a fine tooth comb looking for any little thing to fail you. I hear they will fail you on the first time no matter how professionally done your car looks.

Not true. Blue Shift passed the first time.
I would have as well (wasn't missing anything) but forgot to bring some documentation that I expected them to have.

It's not hard to get through the inspection, so don't be too concerned about having to do it if you get the car that's not already DOHC-certified.

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1988 Pontiac Fiero 3.4 DOHC V6 5-speed
California Smog Legal!

[This message has been edited by Steven Snyder (edited 04-22-2008).]

This may get off of the topic slightly but here is a general guide on engine weights posted last year.

Chev LT1 620 lbs manual (due to flywheel) 562 lbs automatic
Chev LS1 smallblock 497lbs manual 458lbs automatic
3.4L DOHC 492.5 lbs
Cadillac 4.5/4.9L 371lbs (very light for a nearly 5 L V8)
Cadillac Northstar 468 lbs
Corvette L57 505 lbs
Std. SBC crate engine 575 lbs
3800SC series II 445 lbs.
2.8/3.4 L 348lbs

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87GT - with 3800SC Series III engine, 4T65eHD
87GT - 3.4L Turbocharged engine, modified TH125H
" I'M ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "