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Waht Does Rod Knock - Early Stages Sound Like? by Saxman
Started on: 03-16-2008 10:32 PM
Replies: 51
Last post by: Saxman on 03-23-2008 07:57 AM
josef644
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Report this Post03-18-2008 04:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Direct Link to This Post
Saxman I'm a Duke guy, I have never even touched a 2.8. Ya gotta get help here from these other guys.
Joe
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Report this Post03-18-2008 06:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tjm4funClick Here to Email tjm4funSend a Private Message to tjm4funDirect Link to This Post
rod knock is most noticable with rpm changes. It will get louder briefly on accel and is usually mor noticable on decrease in rpm.
wrist pin knock is faster thatn rod knock, and usually slightly higher pitched. heard bes on eht side of the block. rod is best heard at the bottom.
being this is an auto, I have to ask, are you sure you tightened the converter to the flexplate? that cuases a noise that sounds almost exactly like a rod knock, and comes in at the same times.

30w oil shoudl not be an issue, and should show an almost pinned oil guage up here. check the oil for silver/copper.
Good luck!
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Saxman
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Report this Post03-18-2008 06:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SaxmanClick Here to visit Saxman's HomePageClick Here to Email SaxmanSend a Private Message to SaxmanDirect Link to This Post
Thanks, guys!

I took out the oil and it has some good-sized clumps at the bottom of the drip pan. I guess there was still some left in the oil pan from the old nasty oil. I dumped the filter's contents into a clear jar and there are no shavings, so that looks good. I still have to check the bottom of the drained oil for metal.

The oil is very thin, black and transparent, so I guess there was still some too much moisture left in there. I just bought both 5w and 20w to refill it. I wonder if just filling it with the 5w will be OK since I have completely drained that old stuff out again. Whaddya think? Any damage from running the 20w if I don't need it?

I guess that if the knock goes away with the 20w, I can always wait and try the 5w again later.

I'm also going to go under the intake and see what is hissing under there. This hiss is pretty noticable at all engine speeds, so it seems a bit too loud. Like I said - blocking the IAC in the intake kills the hiss and makes it idle nicely.

I'm off to work some more...

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josef644
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Report this Post03-18-2008 06:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Direct Link to This Post
Man I wouldn't put 5W in it .While you are pondering "Rod Knock" 5W would be the last thing I would put in there. 20W40 or 20W50. Here in Texas 30W. I might even use the 30W up there till I knew what was going on in there for sure. 2.8's, I have been told, have small oil galleries. They are happier with the 10-20W's The difference is like between water and pancake syrup. Viscosity.
Joe
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Switch back I dont like this one. I prefere the Dancin Saxman.

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 03-18-2008).]

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Saxman
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Report this Post03-18-2008 07:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SaxmanClick Here to visit Saxman's HomePageClick Here to Email SaxmanSend a Private Message to SaxmanDirect Link to This Post
I would write a longer reply, but the Mexican food I had at the restaurant is telling me different. I'll be back in a minute with the results of the oil change and sleuthing for the leak...

Gotta run!!
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Saxman
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Report this Post03-18-2008 08:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SaxmanClick Here to visit Saxman's HomePageClick Here to Email SaxmanSend a Private Message to SaxmanDirect Link to This Post
Whew. That was rough...

So, I drained the new oil I put in during the engine swap and there was still some water mixed in along with some white meaty chunks. The oil filter showed no flakes and the bottom of the oil drain pan was clear of metal, too.

I put in 20W50 and a new filter. I fired her up and she died pretty quickly. On the restart, the oil pressure went well over 40 and the idle was at aroun 1800 on the cold start. The knock is gone. I imagine that the thin watery oil was not lubricating things well enough. I did not drive it too long the other day - maybe 5 minutes - so I think all will be well. I will back down to a 10W or something like that on the next oil change, which will not be too long from now - just to be sure that I have all the moisture out of the system.

I did some searching for the air noise with a long vacuum hose and the sound is coming from the end of the EGR tube that connects to the intake. I stuck some duct tape there just to see what happened and the idle slowed down a bit. I definitely have to pull the EGR tube and fix it.

At least I made some headway tonight. After the EGR leak is fixed, I'll get the car aligned to make sure I don't eat up the new tires. The registration is going to Illinois DMV tomorrow, so I should have her cruising down the road very soon.

More to come after I get back out into the garage!

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josef644
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Report this Post03-18-2008 08:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Saxman:

Whew. That was rough...

So, I drained the new oil I put in during the engine swap and there was still some water mixed in along with some white meaty chunks. The oil filter showed no flakes and the bottom of the oil drain pan was clear of metal, too.

I put in 20W50 and a new filter. I fired her up and she died pretty quickly. On the restart, the oil pressure went well over 40 and the idle was at aroun 1800 on the cold start. The knock is gone. I imagine that the thin watery oil was not lubricating things well enough. I did not drive it too long the other day - maybe 5 minutes - so I think all will be well. I will back down to a 10W or something like that on the next oil change, which will not be too long from now - just to be sure that I have all the moisture out of the system.

I did some searching for the air noise with a long vacuum hose and the sound is coming from the end of the EGR tube that connects to the intake. I stuck some duct tape there just to see what happened and the idle slowed down a bit. I definitely have to pull the EGR tube and fix it.

At least I made some headway tonight. After the EGR leak is fixed, I'll get the car aligned to make sure I don't eat up the new tires. The registration is going to Illinois DMV tomorrow, so I should have her cruising down the road very soon.

More to come after I get back out into the garage!



Great news.

You might let it idle in the driveway for a while after it gets to normal running temperature. Let some of the steam/water find its way out. Also consider this, that if you have lots of water still in the block, the smog system is sucking it in through the pcv valve and running it threw the intake with the fuel/air charge for combustion. Keep a good eye on the temp gauge. Might point a fan at the front of the car on Hi. You dont want it to overheat, and you havent run it enough to "trust" her yet.

Its about time for a good picture of this "Beast"

Joe
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Saxman
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Report this Post03-18-2008 09:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SaxmanClick Here to visit Saxman's HomePageClick Here to Email SaxmanSend a Private Message to SaxmanDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by josef644:
Great news.

You might let it idle in the driveway for a while after it gets to normal running temperature. Let some of the steam/water find its way out. Also consider this, that if you have lots of water still in the block, the smog system is sucking it in through the pcv valve and running it threw the intake with the fuel/air charge for combustion. Keep a good eye on the temp gauge. Might point a fan at the front of the car on Hi. You dont want it to overheat, and you havent run it enough to "trust" her yet.

Its about time for a good picture of this "Beast"

Joe


Should I run the engine with the oil cap off to boil away the rest of the moisture? I'll stay with it while it runs to watch the temps. I checked the coolant level while the back end was up high today and there was no air under the cap. That's a first for any Fiero I've owned!

I have an old blue hood that has a few cracks in the front, so I will be painting it black just to get something on the front. That way, I can at least take it for a few short spins on the main road without drawing too much attention. That will also let me keep her outside while I clean up all the extra parts left over from the swap.

Yeah - if we get some sunshine tomorrow night, I'll snap a few shots.
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josef644
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Report this Post03-18-2008 09:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Direct Link to This Post
It wont hurt ot leave the cap of for a while, but watch for oil splatter. That could make a mess. The PCV valve should vacate the steam released from the crankcase. You just need to let it run for 30 40 min. or so. I wouldnt drive it to much till you know for sure that the oil is free of water. Water doesn't protect anything when present in the crankcase. The water will sit on the bottom of the oil pan, and the oil on top. Sorta like iceing on a cake, but upside down. The oil will float on top of the water. The oil pickup, almost touching the bottom of the oil pan, will suck in the water and send it threw the engine before the oil gets used. It is very important to get all of the water removed ASAP.
Joe

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 03-19-2008).]

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Saxman
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Report this Post03-22-2008 03:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SaxmanClick Here to visit Saxman's HomePageClick Here to Email SaxmanSend a Private Message to SaxmanDirect Link to This Post
Here's a quote from my re-build thread:

 
quote
I took her out for another set of cruises today - none longer than 5 minutes. The rattling noise is still there, but it doesn't happen when I rev the engine while it sits still. It just happens when the car is accelerating from a stop and when the car shifts gears. When I push it, the sound is gone.

I stopped by a mechanic friend's house in the neighborhood and asked his opinion. We revved it a few times and he couldn't hear anything. Then, when I drove away, the car made the sound.

Good news is that it doesn't look like there is an engine knock, so the thicker oil was not necessary. Now I have to find a way of locating the exhaust noise. There were some pipe connections that could be moved by hand, so I have to assume that those are the problems.

One of them is where the exhaust tips connect to the exhaust ends. There are no clamps holding them together. I just stuck them in by hand. There is a clamp next to these connecting points but they are connected to the exhaust hangers to hold the exhaust tips up. I'll try some exhaust clamps on both of those points and see how it sounds then. They are pretty loose connections. I should have thought of that sooner...


The ride was fun today. Now to get busy locating that exhaust noise...
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litespd
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Report this Post03-22-2008 11:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for litespdSend a Private Message to litespdDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Saxman:

I put in 20W50 and a new filter. I fired her up and she died pretty quickly. On the restart, the oil pressure went well over 40 and the idle was at aroun 1800 on the cold start. The knock is gone. I imagine that the thin watery oil was not lubricating things well enough. I did not drive it too long the other day - maybe 5 minutes - so I think all will be well. I will back down to a 10W or something like that on the next oil change, which will not be too long from now - just to be sure that I have all the moisture out of the system.



Saxman, when you say "10W", do you mean from a 20W50 to a 10W30, or something like that? I wouldn't run straight 10W oil in it...not sure you can even get straight 10W. That would be way too thin to properly lubricate the moving parts in your engine.

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Saxman
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Report this Post03-23-2008 07:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for SaxmanClick Here to visit Saxman's HomePageClick Here to Email SaxmanSend a Private Message to SaxmanDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by litespd:


Saxman, when you say "10W", do you mean from a 20W50 to a 10W30, or something like that? I wouldn't run straight 10W oil in it...not sure you can even get straight 10W. That would be way too thin to properly lubricate the moving parts in your engine.


Yeah - 10W30 was what I meant. Thanks for clearing that up.
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