Not trying to be a dick, but im into motor swapping. Im into V8 Mazda Rx7's. Im not asking this because GM lacks a selection of motors to swap, but what about other motors? a v6 from a honda/nissan/mazda????


Anyone have any experience with this?

Perhaps theres a whole nother selection of motors to choose from. Id love the 260hp Accord motor/manual tranny in a fiero with reliability and MPG efficiency.

Just asking for disscussion...what do you think?

Your time and effort would probably be better spent trying to swap the higher powered Honda and Mazda engines into some of their small sports cars like the DelSol or Miata. Generally speaking you can accomplish the same end result with GM systems already given to the ease of connectivity and ease of tune. Unless you have a real liking for the drivetrain options offered by non GM auto manufacturers, except for a most uniquely different and beneficial hybrid, like a rotary engine adaptation, it probably isn't worth the effort and added headache of needing to learn two systems in order to create one, that operates properly.

[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 11-18-2007).]

I have had a rear mounted supercharged rotary motored car. It weighed just under 2000 and had a little over 300 h.p. at the crank. From start to finish it took me about a year and a half to properly set it up and make sure it was bullet proof as far as overheating and such. I would think one of your biggest problems with Fieros is our cars are a little on the "chunky" side as far as weight goes. Yeah, yeah, I know they are not that much heavier than stock RX-7's but that's also the weak point in those cars so that's why guys mod them to begin with. Another problem is going to be the exhaust system. No matter how you orient that motor the exhaust ports are going to be running into axles right away. It wasn't a problem in my rear engine car because I was using a VW transaxle which was in front of the motor. And speaking of transaxles what would you use? Another problem with mid engine mounting any rotary motor is heat. The front engine mounted cars get plenty of natural air flow for the cooling system and even more importantly the oil cooling system. The exhaust is also quickly exits the front of the car to get that heat (exhaust temp.s can easliy go past 2000 degress) out of the engine bay. I had to triple wrap my hand built headers with exhaust wrap and double wrap the rest of the system. For oil cooling I used the original oil cooler with a fabbed shroud and 10" electric fan. Do you see where I'm going with this??? A mid engine rotary in a Fiero is going to really take some time and engineering.
I don't think it's blasphemy to consider a non GM swap I just think it's a lot easier to swap in a 3800 SC with a 65E tranny and enjoy your car. That's what I've got in mine and it's a blast to drive.

I would love to swap a sueprcharged or turbo'd Honda H22 into a Fiero. I would have to find a beater Fiero to do it too though, would feel bad doing it to a nice one.

Nice small engine with 200 hp stock, and good fuel economy. Would be great to get the auto tranny to work in the Fiero as well. However, I believe you would need the engine, tranny, computer, any addition emissions components, interior components, gauges, etc. You'd want to have an entire donor vehicle really.

------------------
www.FieroDomain.com
Over 120 Fiero Links, Articles, Images, Diagnostics

"If any car is both the parade and the rain, it is the Fiero"

quote Originally posted by Darrelk: Yeah, yeah, I know they are not that much heavier than stock RX-7's but that's also the weak point in those cars so that's why guys mod them to begin with. .

where are you getting your information? the average curb weight of an RX-7 is around 2850 lbs. the average curb weight of a fiero is around 2600 lbs.

and what are you doing to shave over 800 lbs off your rx-7?

Where are you getting your information? he said rear mounted supercharged rotary. Find me a rear engined rx7. Also he never said it was an RX7. Fiero is lighter than an RX7 but not by much. 2750 is what a GT weighs. Add a 3800SC, 4T60, rims, brakes, and your at 3,000lbs if not more.

quote Originally posted by aaronrus: the average curb weight of a fiero is around 2600 lbs.

I believe in short rebuttals: What are you smoking?

bmwguru is doing a VW VR6 swap, I believe.

There's lots of great non-GM possibilities. The biggest problem is since they're not GM, it makes the integration of the drivetrain electronics more difficult, but nothing that can't be overcome. I think a Neon SRT-4 would be a nice swap, but with the turbo Ecotec now available, there's no real need to do the MoPar swap when the Ecotec would be easier.

quote Originally posted by Emc209i: I believe in short rebuttals: What are you smoking?

Umm....................the Fiero started out at 2200 to 2300 and ended at 2700 to 2800
...................I thought he was right on the money.

there is a DSM powered fiero out there. supposedly a mean mother of a car too. 2.0 turbo could be quite nice, as long as you dont use the god awful dsm tranny.


for daily driving a 2.5 fiero get some stupid awsome gas mileage (35-40mpg), so unless i got my hands on a japanese Kei car engine, i'd stick with the 2.5 for efficiency.

for reliable power a northstar, l67, or a simple sbc swap is always nice.

for all out power i'd go with a 10 inch extension, a Porsche or audi 5000 tranny, and a Quad (twin sequential) turbo bmw V12 longitudinally. the lambo guys do the long v12 with audi5000 tranny, so i think its a safe bet that a good nitriting/cryo treatment of the tranny could take 500+hp.

search around for the video of the DSM fiero, its somewhere out there in the abyss on the internet.


JC

(PS, if a 4 rotor fiero were possible, i'd go to scoot and get one, but i dont have $100,000 so i'll stick with the L67)

quote Originally posted by JCUOIT: there is a DSM powered fiero out there. supposedly a mean mother of a car too. 2.0 turbo could be quite nice, as long as you dont use the god awful dsm tranny.

I'm not at liberty to say anything... but there might be another soon.

and another DSM looses it engine to a fiero.

thank god. those DSMs have an almost fiero-like following. i wonder why people like them so much, oh yeah, the same reasons why people love fiero. Cheap, fast(ish), and some what cool looking.

i'm all for another. fit the AWD unit in there and lets have an All Wheel drive fiero.

that would be a miracle if someone could do that. by fitting the engine backwards, with the differential somehow reversed to power the car forward.
put the front end of an old X-car upfront to take the axle shafts, custom "DSM rear axle - X-car front axle hybrid" drive shafts, Corvette steering rack, miles of weld and there ya go.

LOL

JC

Im looking to find a motor / swap that offers reliability, power, and efficiency all in the same package. Not looking to break records, not looking to autocross religiously, not looking to smoke the tires off, or run 8 second quarter miles.

Im looking for something you can throw into the back of a fiero, and drive and enjoy. Something I could drive a great distance to a show, without having to trailor it. I dont need to have the WOW effect, or win any prizes in the shows. I want to be able to drive the fiero there, enjoy the show, then drive it home.

That Being Said...

I absolutely HATE rotory motors...they are horrible inventions, and even though they can make great power...they arent good for more then 40k miles before an apex seal blows, or they begin to have common problems(flooding, inconsistent Idles, ect.)

The DSM motors make good power, but are unreliable due to common blown headgaskets, constantly needing head/valve work due to the way the engine was designed.

The VR6 is an interesting swap, good power, good reliability, decent efficiency(addmittedly i dont know much about this motor so take what i say lightly). A low boost turbo VR6 would be fun.

I dont know much about the honda motors, ive particularly only worked with chevy's and fords.

The turbo Ecotec or the G6 motor and trans(with all the special features) seems desireable, but thats not the focus of this thread.

Im going to compile a list of motors that might be fun to put into a Fiero.

ill post it up later

[This message has been edited by UnderDrive (edited 11-18-2007).]

try and find the motor and trans out of that new SS Turbo Cobalt. i dont even think they are in production yet, but if they are. that would be a stupendous motor. it has flat shift built into the ECU to control revs during full throttle shifts. keeps the boost up. maybe an SRT motor or an old Mopar Turbo 2.2? if not a rotary, then the F20C (S2000 motor) would be a screamer of an engine behind you at 9 thousand revs. torque could be nice from a V8 of some sort (my suggestion would be a 4.9, possibly turbo'd).


there was a ford lightening motor on kijiji a few days ago. depending on your budget. LOL


if you want an engine that has almost as much aftermarket as the GM LS V8's then i'd suggest a b18 engine from a Civic. god knows you can make good power from them, turbo it with a full turbo kit for under a grand and basically haul some serious azz. but it might be alot of work.

i'd say go on your local kijiji/craigslist and look for a motor. so long as its not an AMG V12, it'll likely fit. the hard part comes when you want to wire it up. wiring up the dash, the computer, and all the things that the computer wants to control; ie tranny, fans, cruise, lights, the dash, etc.

if all else fails, go on ebay and find a 3800 S2 L67 and put the boost to it.


to be honest and as blunt as i can be, you seem to want something that isnt common, yet easy to do. now if i were you, i'd look at an ecotec. they are Gen Y's "SBC", they have the aftermarket, the have the strength, and they seem to work in fieros. not too many around but there are some. the newer the better.

Thanks for reading,

JC

JC,

The swap doesnt neccesarily have to be "EASY" as much as it has to be Reliable and efficient.

All I want to do is ENJOY my car, after I enjoy swapping it. Nothing gets on my nerves more than a project that constantly needs things to be fixed.

A Buddy and I recently built up a 347 t88 Small block ford in his 95 Mustang GT. Its runs 900 horses. I bet scince the beginning of the build in 03, he has driven it less than 500 miles. Not because the thing gets less than 5 miles per gallon, but because theres always something that goes wrong with the car.


I dont need my fiero to go 8 seconds, or have 900 horses. I DO need my fiero to have plenty of pep, and be able to drive 3000 miles between oilchanges without breaking. And get better than 20 miles to the gallon on city streets...That is my ultimate goal...

quote Originally posted by UnderDrive: I dont need my fiero to go 8 seconds, or have 900 horses. I DO need my fiero to have plenty of pep, and be able to drive 3000 miles between oilchanges without breaking. And get better than 20 miles to the gallon on city streets...That is my ultimate goal...

whats wrong with a 3800sc then? Meets all those req's doesn't it?

Yeah, the3800SC is an option...but certainly there have to be Others right? Thats what im looking to find out.

I'd really like to us a Suzuki H25A if I was going to get anywhere out of the GM camp, and I can rest easy since GM has a part stake in Suzuki.

Its not a bad engine and can take assloads of boost. The H27A is of the same design and is used in the near-1000 hp Suzuki Escudo.

I'm doing a bmw v12 and a vg30dett this year.

The v12 won't help you much, but the 3.0l dohc tt might interest you. It's the motor from the 300zx

wasn't there a twin engine setup in a tube frame fiero using hayubasa engines or however you say it. i think a diesel engine running off of veggy oil would be cool. You don't have to modify a diesel engine much for boost.

Like your post says - "Blasphemy" - . Along your lines, I'm ultimately interested in shaving weight - maybe do an aluminum frame build with '88 suspension bolt-on and get the weight down. Once you get it reasonable the cobalt supercharger would move it along quite nicely. There was a post earlier highlighting a suspension setup from a vendor which looked interesting.

quote Originally posted by PURPLE REIGN: Umm....................the Fiero started out at 2200 to 2300 and ended at 2700 to 2800 ...................I thought he was right on the money.

When did a Fiero ever weigh 2200 lbs? My 88 coupe with almost no options was 500 lbs heavier.
Published weights can be pretty far off. I wouldn't believe a small weight like that unless someone actually weighed theirs on some race scales..

my 3800 tips 3000lbs with 2 people in it.

quote When did a Fiero ever weigh 2200 lbs?

IIRC, the base 84 coupe wieghed around 2500lbs and the 85 GT was about a 100 lbs heavier

psssh what would you know about car weight's Erik?! You and your heavy ass DOHC!

quote Originally posted by Emc209i: psssh what would you know about car weight's Erik?! You and your heavy ass DOHC!

its so heavy its like a 3800SC2 ...actually I weighed it and it came up to 465lbs with accesories very close to a N* of which BTW I am currently mounting on a spare cradle so I can put another heavy ass motor in my tailhappy 88GT

[This message has been edited by Erik (edited 11-19-2007).]

As mentioned, I am doing a VW VR6 in a 1986 SE. As for the BMW V12....I wanted to do that swap, but you can make just as much power with the six cylinder M52 engine and get better gas mileage, weght ratio, less maintenance expense....the V12 has two of everything. If I ever do a Lambo kit, it will have a BMW six cylinder pushing it along. If you read the bimmerforums, a lot of them are running in the 10's, one in the 9's and still able to make them streetable.
JMO
Dave

------------------

1987 GT (my toy-see above), 1987 GT (wife's toy), 1986 SE soon to be VR6, certified master technician/shop owner
www.njautobahn.com

2.2 L turbo ecotec 86 gt .

I know of another 4cyl-t i'm helpin work on that is going to be badass.. Non-GM btw!

It's all for bragging rights lol. I want to be able to say/show I have a v12 Fiero and a twin turbo dohc v6 with variable valve timing

quote Originally posted by Chris Hodson: wasn't there a twin engine setup in a tube frame fiero using hayubasa engines or however you say it. i think a diesel engine running off of veggy oil would be cool. You don't have to modify a diesel engine much for boost.

Yea. The poor guy's garage burned down and took the Fiero and several other beautiful cars with it.

A real shame if I ever saw one.

Well, its not blasphemy! I am planning on mating 2 13B Rotary engines, and putting them Longitudnally in my Fiero. Japan has the US on better motors, but US beats them everywhere else. And the Fiero is proof

quote Originally posted by UnderDrive: JC, The swap doesnt neccesarily have to be "EASY" as much as it has to be Reliable and efficient. All I want to do is ENJOY my car, after I enjoy swapping it. Nothing gets on my nerves more than a project that constantly needs things to be fixed.

so the recipe you are looking for going something like this:

power+reliability-complications=good.

well, you can divide the remaining engine possibilities in half by saying either tall DOHC setups or low OHV setups. for reliability i'd stick with OHV.

im all for OHV, and this is mainly due to the SBC and the 3800 series of motors. the 3800's are ridiculously efficient, when you think that a 3800 can pull a 3800 lb 97 park avenue around with an EPA 19/29mpg where as the same year honda accord with a 2.7 SOHC V6 rates an EPA 19/25mpg to pull around a mere 2855lbs of honda its a little outragious to think that someone would design an engine thats smaller in displacement, larger in exterior size (tall due to ohc), and manages to return poorer fuel economy than an engine with over a liter of greater displacement, pulling a car thats damn near 1000lbs heavier.

Over Head Cams have their place. but its an expensive and complicated place.

the only reason i can think a person would look for a foreign engine is to brag. your friends ford V8 is a great example, aside from the fact that it has 1 more valve than a 5.0 its sizably more massive and i'd rather put the boost to a 5.0 than a mod motor. why do you think the 2J supra motor, the RB26 Skyline motor, and the 6G72 3000GT motors are all iron block turbo engines. an iron block is a safer bet, but the 5.0's will crack in half at 500hp. so clearly ford motors are a bad choice.


its pretty amazing when you think that a DOHC V6 will fit in a fiero, but when you remember that even the 60 degree ohv 2.8's were the biggest pains to work on some times its makes you think that maybe a more complicated engine might not be the best plan.

the 3800 is a 90 degree V6 with untold problems to do repairs due it how wide it is, but the great thing about the 3800 repairs is that they will be few and far between. if you want power and reliability, do a straight 3800 N/A with the 4t60e and you'll have a car that is fast, reliable, easy to drive, great on gas, and likely the best decision you can make when swaping engines.

i chose the 3800 for the same reasons you've put forward; its powerful, efficient, simple, easy to work on, and it gets a damn sight more fuel economy than a honda V6. then i chose the 3800sc because i wanted to lift the wheels and stomp on supras...


up to you

JC

[This message has been edited by JCUOIT (edited 11-20-2007).]

I'd rather work on a 3800 Fiero than a 2.8 any day. It really does seem to fit better and easier to work on

It is for me at least

Throw in a black top 20v 4age into a Fiero. That would be sweet.

------------------

quote Originally posted by Jake_Dragon:

We have an earlier version of that engine in my dads Fiero, 87 2.0L TBI, all shined up, with an isuzi 5-speed. Got into the 40's for mileage easily.




It is being replaced by this, this winter:


The engine is actually designed by Opel, and is the grandfather of the Ecotech. It was actually called the Ecotech I in europe, they later came out with an Ecotech II, and the current Ecotech which is the one that GM is currently using here is the 3rd generation Ecotech.

And if you like the DOHC 4 cylinders:

My Quad 4

I have worked on a 03 N* in a Fiero, and it actually isnt too bad to work on everything below the valve cover is easy to get to from below, and everything above is easy to get to, all DOHC engines have the spark plugs going through the middle of the valve cover into the middle of the head, so they are pretty much on the top of the engine, and easy to get to, pushrods engines plugs come out the sides, which makes them alittle harder to get to from the top. I have not worked on a stock 2.8L Fiero with the engine in the car, but my Quad 4 is easier to work on than my 2.5L Fiero. The only thing that is harder as far as general maintanence is changing the oil, because the oil filter is on the front of the engine, I have to jack it up, where my 2.5L filter can be reached from above.

quote

You are my hero. I want one of those so bad!

Did you know they came with a DOHC head overseas? (For the C20XE engine. Its still produced or just reached its end of life by one of GM's Asian companies. Daewoo, I believe)


There were also a very small handful of Fieros that had dealer options to instll those LT3s, so its not completely a non-Fieroish engine.

[This message has been edited by AP2k (edited 11-21-2007).]

quote Originally posted by AP2k: You are my hero. I want one of those so bad! Did you know they came with a DOHC head overseas? (For the C20XE engine. Its still produced or just reached its end of life by one of GM's Asian companies. Daewoo, I believe) There were also a very small handful of Fieros that had dealer options to instll those LT3s, so its not completely a non-Fieroish engine.

the C20XE engine has "only" 150 HP stock (opel engine )
its evolution was in the opel Calibra C20let was it called 204 turbo HP
there are 4 Tuning variants from phase2 =250hp up to phase4 = 460HP (race)

here an phase3 c20let
http://cgi.ebay.de/Vectra-C...QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

iam after an phase 2 C20let for my Fiero baby would bring my batmobile into porsche hp/ kilogramm regions 1 hp / 4 kg
but the "normal" c20xe is a very cheap option too , 200-300 Euros for enginewith harness is normal on ebay


------------------
1984 Fiero Sport
1987 Fiero <- Ethanol powered Batmobile
1984 Fiero SE
1999 Chrysler Grand Voyager 3.3 LX <-LPG powered family car

*** nuclear winter cures global warming ***

[This message has been edited by Fieromaniac (edited 11-21-2007).]