has anyone attempted or possibly made one work? with all the clutch hydraulic problems theses cars have would this not be a better setup? i thinking of fabing one up when i get around to putting my northstar in
better to repair the hydraulics,parts are availaIble to improve system.. the brackets and the roller setup for the pedal would be a major project,you need a thick cable and the problem is soldering the barrel fittings.. there is probably a cable out there some where that could be adapted.. you would cut the outer sheath to fit,difficult I was a motorcycle mechanic and have made cables for motorcycles where the parts were practically non existent in U S A (parrila,horex,bennelli,itom,indian,) you must be expert at soldering ,only a soldering pot will succesfully solder wire and barrel ferule together ,you can silver solder but you must be expert for joint to hold, you could use a harley ape hanger handlebar cable,, there is probably a cable for a road grader some where that will work,,HA HA ,, there must still be company in usa that makes cables,, large motorcycle shop with old mechanic your best bet,good luck, figure out what you need and build to the cable rather than build and then make ..you need someting like the e brake cable,, use rod thru fire wall to pull cable. this way your roller would be in spare tire compartment and easy to fabricate cable snakes over roller so it is pulled straight you would not need much travel,, the ajuster would be part of the cable ,, a project with a lot of work better to inprove hydraulic system! former scooter mechanic
[This message has been edited by uhlanstan (edited 09-20-2007).]
Next year i am thinking about looking at slave rebuild kits at auto parts dealers and adapting a quality rebulid kit to the fiero slave,, right now I am 200 hour behind on my gt V 6 project.. a kit that once you bleed it it does not let air in untill 100.000 pushes ..I KNOW SOME WHERE ON THIS FORUM THIER IS A PERSON WHO HAS ADAPTED ANOTHER UNIT TO THE FIERO SLAVE ,ADDING AN O RING TO THE SLAVE PLUNGER WORKS SOME TIME.. SCOOTER MECHANIC
[This message has been edited by uhlanstan (edited 09-20-2007).]
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
Along this line, has anyone tried to adapt a more reliable hydraulic clutch system from a different vehicle to a Fiero. I used to have a Ford Ranger pickup and the clutch system on it was very reliable and I never had do do a thing to the hydraulics. There was a quick disconnect on the slave, so you could disconnect it if you, for example, had to drop the transmission. I did have to do that, because I had to replace the clutch. I made use of the quick disconnect, and didn't have to do any bleeding or anything else when done. Just snapped it back together, and it all worked perfectly.
Sep 23rd, 2007
Posts: 222 From: Orangevale, CA, USA Registered: Jun 2005
thanks for all the imput. another reason i wanted a cable clutch is for drag racing. i was told cable clutch setups had quicker engagement. i was planning on using an e-brake cable for the cable. i visit the junk yards around town constantly so i could just look at trucks/vans/land yaughts for a long enough cable. ill thow an update when i find something that works
Posts: 441 From: maryville TN USA Registered: Oct 2006
I posted the same topic a while back and the idea was brought up about outboard motor cables. They come in enough footage to do the job without any sharp bends and they are reliable, waterproof anf hefty enough for the application. You would have to fab mounts on both ends, but they are threaded to make the fab job easier...
The problem is the ferules, the round barrel fittings you have to solder,, it is difficult to solder cable strong enough to hold,, I have experience with this as motorcycle mechanic you need to find cable professionally made.. e brake cable is to short,brake pushes toward fire wall so fulcrum or bell crank must be in system, a 180o turn I am sure there is a cable company in america that still makes cables,,israelis makes many?? you need to find one that is long enough,,with an ajuster if you replace slave with some other car manufacturers parts this would be easier,, maybe Xanth who works at an auto parts store can check this out,you need a slave with just an 1/8 more travel ,,and bleeder at other end.. since the slaves now come from china ect.. mayby one from a toyota or honda.. the slave has enough travel ,but reliability seems issue,,getting the air out is lady dog. there needs to be extra or more efficient seal
Posts: 39949 From: Carrollton GA. Out in the... country. Registered: Oct 1999
Slighty off topic. The problems with the Fiero hydraulics are legendary. If every GM hydraulic clutch system was this (un)reliable, people would be banding together with torches and pitchforks. Obviously, that is not the case. My '88 Firebird had a hydraulic clutch that worked flawlessly (well... until I fried the facing, but that's a whole 'nother issue. ) Same with the '92 Sonoma.
So... what is the difference? Due to its low hood line, the Fiero master cylinder actually sits marginally lower than the slave cylinder. This allows the slightest imperfection in the slave cylinder bore or seal to allow air in, and lets the fluid leak back into the master cylinder. The next time the car is driven... no clutch.
The solution? It may be as simple as parking the Fiero with its nose pointed uphill. A deeper reservoir on the master cylinder may help, if the car was otherwise level. That way, the height/weight of the fluid in the reservoir would maintain pressure on the hydraulic system, and keep air from leaking in. That's assuming that the level in the M/C was higher than the slave.
Sorry for the hijack. Good luck with the cable. Sounds like a ton of work.
Posts: 12956 From: Russell, KS USA Registered: Apr 2002
The biggest problem with a cable system on the Fiero is the throwout arm and the clutch are set up to PUSH and a cable is much longer lived and handles load better when they PULL.
For instance, a Morse-Teleflex 60 series cable is rated to pull 200# but push just 180# for 2 inches. You also have to watch your bend radius. The tighter you bend it, the more cable backlash you have particularly when you push the cable. Keep in mind that a NORMAL new backlash for a 60 series cable is .180". That is going to be unavoidable as the cable migrates in the sheath finding the path of lest resistance until it actually has to push like it should. All of this is minimized when you pull the cable because you can preload it.
Once you do decide on your mounts, lenght, stroke, end fittings, etc., go to Buam Hydraulics and they will build you a custom cable to your specs.
Just looking quickly, if you can figure out a way to make a pull arrangement, a 60 series should do fine. If you have to push, it might be marginal and you'll have to go with an 80 series that has even more backlash, bulk, weight, and can't bend as tight a radius. While cables can be bent fairly tight and work, the tighter the bend radius the shorter the cable life is going to be.
Here's a design page from Morse that can get you started. I'll say it again, though, think PULL not PUSH.
You would mount cable to pull of course sorry thought this was obvious.. the cable would come in from the opposing side easier to do than frabricate the mechanisim for the pedal to pull rather than push,, this is major design effort but draw out roller pulley design first look at pedal and banjo rod so you have idea where you would have to mount pulley that cable would curl around to create pull design system easy draw it out the mount of the pulley or bell crank is the real deal killer,I mean the actual install of parts with cable you can have slight offset, you can design so whole cable itself routes (curves) to pull,,but cable sheath needs large curve.. difinitely buy cable made by manufacturer an ajuster can be installed or cable purchased with ajuster made on (no lenthwise slot) but before you even look at cable design system with out design there will never be cable better to draw than have in mine(previous experience)
CAN,T beleave this post!! I have done some research for this idea witch(holloweenie) I concidered a flight of fancy .I was wrong.. there are many cars that use clutch cable and this would not be as difficult as I thought first find pedal close to what you want,look in large motor manuals(or chilton) they have at some libraries..there will be drawings of pedal assemblies for different cars,remount of pedal bracket least of problems!! try to find closest to your needs, then find clutch cable start with ford mustang cable ,probably to short.. if you can frabricate pedal ,,and pull method at transmission rest is easy I have figured out how to do this(not saying) and I have suffered severe brain damage,you should have no real problem now "GO for it" turn key to open money vault,you could weld pull flange/bracket to top of stock pedal.. remember ok to have mechanical linkage with cable,like L or boomerang