Hi all,
I'm starting on Phase I of my wife's Fiero build. There will be four phases all together, including a VW VR6 swap (stock), roll cage install, and VR6 turbo w/ alcohol injection build.
The idea here is to lower the car by about 1.5" while maintaining a factory type of ride quality. I'm trying to do this in my spare time, as well as paint my other Fiero, replace the hardwood floor in my house and replace all the sheetrock in my house....all that while trying to not burn myself out. In the first pictures, you can see the stock suspension and heights.



The bushings are completely shot and causing some handling issues that I want corrected. The ball joints are original from 1986, so they are due.


Here is the parts list:

Here is the helper, paid for with milk and cookies. He was very happy helping out and wants to spend his free time helping me fix "Mommy's" car.

The goal is to have the car done, suspension painted and aligned in time for the GSF road rally on October 13th.
Phase I begins......................
Dave

shiny parts

I haven't really followed up with an update. I've been working on the Fiero in between replacing wiring harnesses and rebuilding engines for my customers cars.
It's hard to grab the camera when I've got grease up to my elbows. I'll post some pics tomorrow....I should have a few good ones of the coil over making.
So far, all four rack mounting bols have broken upon removal, and I have half the arms for the car done.
I was hoping to have this thread more technical describing the proper procedure for pressing out the bushings for a DIY'er, but I find myself using the hammer and chisel as well as a bench vice opposed to using a 20 ton press.
Dave

You are ambitious, Oct 13th is creeping up! Good luck man!

Ambitious????
I should have had this done in two days....I was estimating 10 working hours. I forgot the rust factor. I just took some photos of the arms with the new parts. I'll post them up tonight.
Dave

Oh , oops I forgot its only phase 2 you are currently undergoing. I was also thinking if I were doing it I would be learning as I go. Like my simple rotor, pads and front bearing install. Not so seemingly simple now that its back together and not all functioning due to the weird screw in calipers in the rear, and a funky Ebrake.

Why does every damn bolt have to be seized or just break off???????
I'm so not used to working in these conditions. I can take apart a 1959 Mercedes and not have one bolt give me problems. Geesh!
Anyway, here are some update pics. I have about 10 hours invested so far.
By the way, if you guys make coil overs...STAY AWAY FROM THE BILSTEIN SLEEVES!!!!. I used Afco sleeves on my last set and they fit great. The 2" Bilstein have a ridge on the inside that I had to hone away.

Its not a fiero if the only 2 tools you need to disassemble it are a torch and a sawzall.

I had the chance to finish the rear coil overs today. Note: don't use Bilstein sleeves because they have a ridge that must be honed out from the inside. The AFCO ones are much easier to use. So, I honed out the interior of the sleeves and ground off the spring perch (note-keep the strut cool to prevent seal damage).
I used a 275lb spring rate. My V8 has the 300lb springs, so I figured I'd try a little lighter for the VR6....I can always change them later if I am not happy.
Dave

Wow. is that a "normal" amount of rust for your area?

Russ544

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"doesn't matter where you've been....... doesn't matter where you're going...... just how cool you look gettin' there."
Fonzy

quote Originally posted by Russ544: Wow. is that a "normal" amount of rust for your area? Russ544

That's about right for a car that is kept outside. When I bought the car, the cradle was almost rotted in half. The key areas such as the trunk and floor are in good shape. My GT is garage kept and has very little rust.
Strangely, my last 86 SE V8 had no rust whatsoever, kept outside and I lived a mile from the beach.
go figure.
Dave

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: Its not a fiero if the only 2 tools you need to disassemble it are a torch and a sawzall.

I think you jinxed me. I didn't have to pull out the torch until yesterday because the lower control arm bushing bolts were seized into the bushing sleeves. ARRRRRG!
It's all downhill from here.
Dave

Dont feel to bad I been having a lot of the same problems with the rust. Had to cut the A-arm bolts out like you and retap 3 of the bolt holes for the front sway bar. Don't even get me started on the rest of the car.
Anyways, anyone know where I can get some new steel sleeves to be pressed into one of the front lower A-arms in michigan or online? The rest of the arm is still good and I cant afford a new one from fierostore.com

The sleeves are the bushings. They are pretty cheap at the Fiero Store.
Dave

Nice work!
I don't envy you for all the rust. That's one good thing about living in the south. I don't see too much of it.

quote Originally posted by bmwguru: The sleeves are the bushings. They are pretty cheap at the Fiero Store. Dave

Very true. But the folks who want to do poly bushings are S.O.L. if the sleeves are damaged.
We usually burn or drill the old bushings out of the sleeves, leaving the sleeves intact. Sometimes, it doesn't happen exactly like that.

I am going to follow this vr6 swap very close because it interests me....

Once i get out of the Army I plan on doing this swap because I have an 85 2m6 in great condition.

quote Originally posted by Raydar: Nice work! I don't envy you for all the rust. That's one good thing about living in the south. I don't see too much of it. Very true. But the folks who want to do poly bushings are S.O.L. if the sleeves are damaged. We usually burn or drill the old bushings out of the sleeves, leaving the sleeves intact. Sometimes, it doesn't happen exactly like that.

I decided to not use my poly bushings. The sleeves didn't hold up as expected. Also, I really didn't want the squeaks commonly associated with poly bushings.
The VR6 swap will take place most likely this winter....as soon as my shops workload dimishes. I put it on the lift and I have more work than we can handle and we are about 10 days out on repairs right now. At home, we finished the master bedroom with new sheetrock, on the wall dressers, sanded and polished the hardwood floor and painted. Now we are ripping up the original hardwood floor in our living room and laying in new hardwood floor....the strip type. I have no experience with house repairs whatsoever, but I'm getting the hang of it fast.
At the same time, my other Fiero is getting sanded and prepped for paint. The custom decklid is just about done. My wife and I are on the verge of exhaustion doing all this at the same time...while running our shop.
whew!
Dave

OK now I see. I had gotten the polyurethane set while I was at it. except that doesn't come with the new outer steel sleeves like the regular rubber bushing kit does. Now I just have to figure out whether I should try to salvage whats left of the front crossmember upper bracket or if I should take those out to and replace them. Which would suck since there problably rusted to the frame along with their bolts. Not sure, what do you guys think; take the risk of a suspension collapse or possibly losing another month on the car. From what I can tell they look worse than your bracket up above in those pictures.

[This message has been edited by mploucha (edited 09-25-2007).]

if only i knew how to quote the different posts in this post....so much was said that i would have loved to quote!!

thanx to all who have been supportive during this "project".....but i just have to put in my 2 cents......

against my better judgement i stupidly approved the purchase of those "shiny" parts, not realizing dave would want to tear into it right away. there was nothing wrong with the damn car before dave brought it into the shop (at least as far as i was concerned). then he drags my little boy down the long and treacherous road of fiero "appreciation", let's say. staying after hours to work on the freakin fiero instead of being home to help me fix up the house (hardwood floor warped, ripped it up to replace, walking on plywood for months). talk about your opposites!! now, he's trying to cram everything in at the same time, my car (suspension), his car (paint), the house in which we are living and trying to fix up at the same time, not to mention being a referee for the 5 kidz, trying to train the dogs (sit, stay, no, ect...house training is done) along with running the shop!!!!

i'm not trying to bash him, because he is a good man. he tries to do right by me and the kidz. but for crying out loud, one project at a time, is that too much to ask?!

that and when he does sh!t like this, he ends up being cranky, and i have my hands full with the kidz fighting i don't need a grown man coming home cranky to add to the bunch!!

just venting a bit.....he's doin a good job, my car is "almost" done, the flooring is coming along slowly, his car is "almost" ready to be painted.

ok, i'm done, back to work.....

ok ok ok....the car is just about done. I'll finish the hardwood floor asap. Finished height in the same location as before is now 7.00 inches and 7.25 inches front and rear.
Monday it is getting aligned by a local body shop and then the 18" rims are going on. Here are some update pics. I'll post final pics with the rims once it is all said and done.
Dave

Whoa I like! Where did you get your front lowering springs? I need some for my 85'.

Mike

[This message has been edited by NYRED85GT (edited 09-28-2007).]

quote Originally posted by NYRED85GT: Whoa I like! Where did you get your front lowering springs? I need some for my 85'. Mike

what he said!

I got them from WCF.
Personally, I like the suspension techniques from Summit a little better (on my GT). The reasoning is: Suspension Techniques springs are longer so you don't have to cut the bump stop. WCF springs are shorter (making install easier), but have a higher spring rate...thus requiring cutting and welding the bump stop.
I can't say which ride better. The car is getting aligned Monday and Tuesday I'll have the finished pics (with rims) posted if all goes well.
Dave

Does anyone sell JUST the front springs though? I looked and WCF, Summit, and JCWhitney sell just then whole sets. I have been trying to get JC Whitney to sell me just the front springs (like they advertise) for like 2 months now without luck. I built coil overs so rear lowering springs aren't much good to me and it would probably be hard to sell them to get some money back. Blah blah blah.....

Mike

quote Originally posted by NYRED85GT: Does anyone sell JUST the front springs though? I looked and WCF, Summit, and JCWhitney sell just then whole sets. I have been trying to get JC Whitney to sell me just the front springs (like they advertise) for like 2 months now without luck. I built coil overs so rear lowering springs aren't much good to me and it would probably be hard to sell them to get some money back. Blah blah blah..... Mike

yea, i already lowered the rear.. now i just need fronts...

WCF sells just the front. I called them and they do list it on their website. It is a little hard to find, but they do sell just the front.
I noticed that both my Fieros have 1.5" lowering springs, but the drop difference is drastic. The SE pictured above won't go on my trailer without tearing the nose off. My GT will go on with ease. If I run into more issues, expect to see these springs in the mall.
On a good note....they look pretty sweet.
Dave

Car is at the alignment shop. They should get it back to me tomorrow if all goes well. Hopefully, this alignment will cost less than I paid for the car. Most shops just toe and go. I told them to get the caster, camber and toe within 1/4 of the allowable tolerances and no cross caster or cross camber.......my damn OCD is kicking in again.
Dave

ok, I wanted to post a final update on the car.
First off, the alignment came out great....and only costed me $195.00
Second, the springs from WCF will be put in the garbage this winter. I won't resell them in the mall because I don't want anyone getting pissed off at me. I'm going to use the 1.5" suspension techniques springs. My reasons are: my 18" rims rub the wheel wells on my SE with the WCF springs. On my GT, I have a nice lowered look with no rubbing...same rims and tires. I thought I almost lost my front bumper about 8 times on my drive home. My GT gives me no isues on the same roads. The ride quality is that of a Honda slammed to the ground....very bouncy.
Not pleased.
So, we will be doing a spring swap this winter. In the meantime, I'll deal with the rough ride....and stock rims
Dave

Do you know the spring rate between the two? Is it that they are just shorter or is it they are too soft? If you find a vendor of the fronts then please post it. I have to write JCWhitney and yell at them some more for putting things on their web site and not selling it.

Mike

Hi,

Would you be able to tell me where to find the coilover sleeves/springs? I've been looking but am unsure of which ones will actually work with the Fiero. Thanks!

Steve

The front springs have a 350 rate. I could shim the springs, but I'd rather go with the set that I know what the ride is like, but right now they are on backorder from Summit Racing. I'm going to google to see if I can find another vendor.
Summit Racing has everything needed to make the coil overs.
Dave

Thank you very much!

Steve

quote Originally posted by bmwguru: The front springs have a 350 rate. I could shim the springs, but I'd rather go with the set that I know what the ride is like, but right now they are on backorder from Summit Racing. I'm going to google to see if I can find another vendor. Summit Racing has everything needed to make the coil overs. Dave

Let me see if I understand you correctly here. The suspension techniques springs you have are lowering springs? If so, do they sell them at Summit for just fronts and do you have a part # ?

quote Originally posted by OH10fiero: Let me see if I understand you correctly here. The suspension techniques springs you have are lowering springs? If so, do they sell them at Summit for just fronts and do you have a part # ?

I have to look up the number, but they sell all four. I'll just sell the rears like I did last time. The ride quality is excellent and it is still lowered, but so much to scrape the front bumper. Here is a pic of my GT with the Suspension techniques springs.

quote Originally posted by bmwguru: Car is at the alignment shop. They should get it back to me tomorrow if all goes well. Hopefully, this alignment will cost less than I paid for the car. Most shops just toe and go. I told them to get the caster, camber and toe within 1/4 of the allowable tolerances and no cross caster or cross camber Dave

I am probably having some new rear struts put in my 86 soon. So if I go to a shop to get it aligned, do I need to say something like what you said in order to get a decent alignment? Will I be able to tell if they did it or not?

quote Originally posted by 2.5: I am probably having some new rear struts put in my 86 soon. So if I go to a shop to get it aligned, do I need to say something like what you said in order to get a decent alignment? Will I be able to tell if they did it or not?

an average alignment is about $70.00
The average alignment takes the tech about 30 minutes.
No tech is willing to set a Fiero's Caster and Camber for $70.00
I took it to a local body shop that does expensive, but thorough alignments. I expected to pay about $300.00, but they gave me a break because I'm in the business. It took them about five hours.
Get a printout....also make sure the shop is reputable....a tech that knows his way around an alignment machine can fudge a printout. i was going to buy an alignment rack/machine, but it is around $50,000. My BMW/Mercedes laptop was $24,000. and I'm making more money with the laptop. Business decision.
Dave

quote Originally posted by bmwguru: I have to look up the number, but they sell all four. I'll just sell the rears like I did last time. The ride quality is excellent and it is still lowered, but so much to scrape the front bumper. Here is a pic of my GT with the Suspension techniques springs.

No need, I found them on the site before. I was hoping for just the fronts as a lot of other here area as well since the home made rear coil over has become much more popular.

Holy crap 5 hours labor! So if I had teh $70 version done whats the problem with it?

quote Originally posted by 2.5: Holy crap 5 hours labor! So if I had teh $70 version done whats the problem with it?

either the tech will take the loss, the shop will take the loss, or they will set the front and rear toe and tell you that the rest isn't adjustable.
Dave