If the pulley on a series 2 3800 sc is upgraded, what other modifications are recomended to support the pulley upgrade.
Also what are some other upgrades that people have had good luck with if i were to rebuild the engine?

Stuff like this is discussed all the time. Use the search feature and hunt around a bit. Anything you could ever wanna know is most likely already here. The question is too vague, how small a pulley do you want to run? Rebuild, you can do a new cam or rockers, no need to do much more than that unless you're gunna have a track car. If you don't know about mods to run pulleys, you shouldn't be considering valvetrain mods just yet. Read up a bit first. Go over to clubgp.com and look around their forums too. Man, I need sleep, this is a horribly structured post.

Try searching on www.clubgp.com as well

[This message has been edited by goatnipples2002 (edited 08-22-2007).]

Talk to DARKHORIZON He and his friends get good results with little modification. From reading his posts i know a good flowing exhaust and possibly 1:9 rockers would be a good start. Reading through other threads people are saying these engines cant support smaller pullys without a bunch of supporting mods. But the engines that are having issues are in heavier cars "gtp". The fiero doesn't weigh as much so possibly less stress on the engine?


Read this

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/065757.html

Alot of Fieros with 3800sc can run 3.4 with just a decent exhaust, which is something you'd be making or have made so it better be big enough anyways. And ya its the weight, alot less load than in the gp or any other 3.8sc factory equipped car.

I tried posting this earlier, but it came out funky.


Courtesy of Terry Possehl from Clubgp.com. Search clubgp for the title and read the original thread.


What Size Pulley Can You Run? The Write Up.

his should be a quick down and dirty to the ever present question. When can I run a 3.4, 3.25, 3.0 etc.... Take into account this write up will be on the more conservative side and I think everyone will agree that this aplies to 95% of GTP's. Obviously that 5% applies to people with already hurt motors or if you have 150k miles, have gone 10's of thousands of miles between oil changes etc... you may want to rethink modding at all and start fresh. With this list you should be knock free, however its always a good idea to either buy a scantool or join one of your local chapters and find someone close by with one to scan for kr, however like I said this list is designed to almost guarntee 0 KR.Anyone please feel free to addin suggestions or comments and I will adjust this accordingly.

Well start with the 3.4 pulley as it usually starts the majority of these questions. Below you will find a list of supporting mods that should be in place prior to installing that 3.4. Can you get away with less? Possibly. Have people gotten away with less? Yes. Do you want to take the chance? Enough said.

1. PCM- standard v 1.0 will suffice at this level.
2. CAI/FWI- Cold Air Intake/ Fenderwell Intake, you can build your own or purchase one from a vendor.
3. Ported Exhaust Manifolds/ Headers/ ZZP Powerlog- your choice, at this level Pems or the Powerlog are fine, if your planning on further modding later you will need headers, only you know your budget.
4. 3" Downpipe- Crushbendt which most exhaust shops will do is unadvised, preferable to purchase an aftermarket from one of the vendors.
5. 1-2 Heat range colder plugs. i.e Autolite 104's or equivelent gapped in the .050-.055 range
6. Ubend delete- just after the cat, most exhaust shops will be able to remove this and put in a straight pipe.

Thats it, doesnt sound too hard right? Fortunatly your reading this, back when alot of us blew our motors there was no such write up and no such guidance. These 5 items are considered necissary, of course you can change your thermo to a 180 unit, also wouldnt hurt. Also quite a few people add a set of 1.9 ratio rockers to that list. If you plan on staying at this mod level, I agree, add the rockers, if your planning on continuing on in the quest of more speed and wont be at this level for very long skip the rockers.

Now onto the 3.2-3.25 Pulley. Obviously this is going to take more extensive supporting mods. Add all from above and include:

1. Camshaft- take your personnal pick, do a search these have been compared time and time again. Addin supporting components, i.e stiffer springs, new pushrods, check with the vendor for individual needs.
2. Ported and Polished heads, larger valves- check with the vendors on this one, will be your best bet to invest in a stage 2 or 3.
3. Headers- if you had Pems before your dangerously close to being out of their level, sell and get some headers.
4. Larger Throttle Body- again these have been compared, take your personnal pick.
5. 2-3 heat range cooler plugs, you can stay with 104's but may need to switch to 103's
6. Retuned PCM to add in the cam and free flowing heads etc....

3.0 Pulley needs extensive mods, and honestly you shouldnt even be considering if you have to read this, but just in case take all from above and add:

1. High flow Cat
2.Cat-Back system
3. 42.5# injectors
4. Upgraded fuel system
5. Stage 4 heads
6.Powertuner/HPTuners or some other means to custom write onto your PCM during a dyno session.

Now yes notice I didnt say anything about Intercoolers in any of those combinations. Either a Short Stack or Full size intercooler obviously adjusts those combinations. However I dont agree with the idea of just slapping on an IC to address an issue. Can you run a 3.25 with a full size IC and no other supporting mods? Our vendors say yes. Will you get knock? No probably not. Is it a knucleheaded way of thinking? Abso***inglutely. Go ask people who have dealt with forced induction far longer than our motors have been around, if they would almost double the stock boost with just an IC backing it up, not a single one will say yes, Ill bet my next year salary on it. IC's are great, and have their uses, but you need to have a foundation first. Endeth the sermon.

[This message has been edited by goatnipples2002 (edited 08-23-2007).]

heres some sites with L67 products

http://www.intense-racing.com/

http://www.zzperformance.com/

http://www.wbodystore.com/grandprix/index.php

http://www.3800performance.com/

http://www.pfyc.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?

http://www.fasttoys.net/shop/

------------------

AIM:Onefast2M8
86 GT SC 3800 Intercooled
02 Jetta 1.8t

3800SC w 3.4" pulley
recommended mods.

Free flow exhaust
Autolite #104 plugs (no platinum) 1 heat range Colder Plug
Cold air system ( do not intake air from hot engine compartment)
Best quality premium fuel 93 octane and above)
180* thermostat
Intercooler (optional) but it really helps
A good quality Scan tool or PC with scanning software/cable) - you'll neeed to monitor amount of KR. It will probably be OK but if it isn't detonation will blow your engine.

------------------
87GT 3.4 Turbo- 0-60 5.2 seconds
2006 3800SC Series III swap in progress
Engine Controls, PCM goodies,
re-programming & odd electronics stuff
" I'M ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

Bump for the write up!!!!!

Please dont pay attention to anything that terry guy said aside from the 3.4 pulley stuff. all of the "3.2/3.0" stuff is far outdated, or he is just making stuff up if it was posted recently. for example, I am running a 3.2 pulley on a rocker car with STOCK EVERYTHING ELSE.

quote Now onto the 3.2-3.25 Pulley. Obviously this is going to take more extensive supporting mods. Add all from above and include: 1. Camshaft- take your personnal pick, do a search these have been compared time and time again. Addin supporting components, i.e stiffer springs, new pushrods, check with the vendor for individual needs. 2. Ported and Polished heads, larger valves- check with the vendors on this one, will be your best bet to invest in a stage 2 or 3. 3. Headers- if you had Pems before your dangerously close to being out of their level, sell and get some headers. 4. Larger Throttle Body- again these have been compared, take your personnal pick. 5. 2-3 heat range cooler plugs, you can stay with 104's but may need to switch to 103's 6. Retuned PCM to add in the cam and free flowing heads etc....

WRONG!!!! with headers cam heads and a nice TB, you can EASILY support a 2.8/2.9 pulley on this setup with gas, or toss on a junk intercooler. Heck most people do it with completely stock heads and manifolds. The setup he describes here is about 420-430 crank HP, or about 330 wheel through an auto trans on a mustang dyno. This would all be even easier in a fiero too, because I found that the "fiero factor" was a great way to eliminate knock and tuning these things seems to be a cakewalk compared to the big wbody cars.

------------------
[16:58] davepettinelli: mine's got a court-apponted psychiatrist
[16:58] davepettinelli: yay girls
[16:59] GTPimpin: mine whines alot
[16:59] GTPimpin: her name is fiero


Ultimate 3800 swap thread

[This message has been edited by darkhorizon (edited 08-24-2007).]

And for us with a severe newbie condition.

What is KR?

Thanks

------------------
1987 Pontiac Fiero Coupe (Notchback) 2.5L L4 Automatic

quote Originally posted by Mr.Chipps: And for us with a severe newbie condition. What is KR? Thanks

KR = Knock Retard. Its when the engines ECU detects some pre-detonation. What it does, is when it detects it, it retards the ignition timing to compensate. This is why you can't just throw super small pullies on and call it a day, the ECM will detect knock, and retard the crap out of the engine. Retard = less horsepower.

[This message has been edited by RandomTask (edited 08-24-2007).]

KR doesnt only kill power, but it hints to possible engine death. Knock is VERY bad for your pistons and rods.