Hello all,
I have been pondering the idea of putting a german engine into a Fiero for the last year. I'd like to do a BMW engine, but right now that isn't in my budget or timeframe. I have narrowed it down to two choices. A VW Jetta 1.8 turbo or a VW Jetta VR6. I'll be using the VW transmission, so the only issue will be the axles. The VR6 engine is a six cylinder with the cylinders staggered to keep the external size of a four cylinder.
Here are a few photos of the VR6 engine freshly out of a Jetta.
Dave

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450hp 1987 Fiero GT, 1986 Fiero SE-soon to be 3800, certified master technician/shop owner
www.njautobahn.com

I've been thinking about it too but I don't have the money to do a 3.4L shortblock. A BMW most likely won't fit. The only bmw motor that would fit is the V8, which are pricey. The Inline sixes are too long to fit horizontally. You could do an S52 longitudinally and make a new M1... that would be super cool. There is a guy who sells a kit to put the 750iL motor longitudinally in a stretched Fiero. I think the 1.8T would be an easier swap to do. I've heard rumblings of a DSM motor swap but I haven't seen it.

I thought about it more... My 88GT with the an OBD-1 S52, Porsche G50, IMSA wide body, 12" Wide 19s on the back... I just peeed a little.

[This message has been edited by Mr.PBody (edited 08-15-2007).]

I'd like to see a VW W8 swap. Do they still make those?

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1986 SE 350 V8

bmwguru i actually had a thread about this exact topic a while back. i have a 97 VR6 with a 12 valve, yours is the 24 correct? but still both VR's the onyl thing stopping me from doing it is finding someone to do the swap. i already have a gti that i have owned for quite some time that was stollen and wrecked right after i got a newer 80k motor put in and had the tranny rebuilt and got pretty much everything under the hood brand new except the actual motor itself. i invested quite a bit of money into this car but i just dont have the know how and tools to do the swap myself. good luck with the swap.

[This message has been edited by RenegadeFiero86 (edited 08-15-2007).]

I would love to see someone work out the axles for the VW (or nissan) transmissions.... Both have variants with the starter on the transaxle side which would make installing an LSx series engine a whole lot easier from a starter standpoint and allow the use of a thinner adapter plate.

How about a TDi swap out of a Jetta and go for the mega mileage?

quote Originally posted by RenegadeFiero86: bmwguru i actually had a thread about this exact topic a while back. i have a 97 VR6 with a 12 valve, yours is the 24 correct? but still both VR's the onyl thing stopping me from doing it is finding someone to do the swap

And here-in lies the problem. If you can't do the work and modification yourself, it's cheaper to go wtih a 3800sc or similar that the Fiero community is used to dealing with.

yes except for the fact that i already have everything i need motor tranny ecm harness and the tranny is brand new with a brand new clutch. if i were to try and find an equivelant 3800sc it would be pricey, even thou the power is much greater. but this is a very true statement had i not already had the donor car with all necesary parts excluding brackets and custom fabbing.

quote Originally posted by bmwguru: Hello all, I have been pondering the idea of putting a german engine into a Fiero for the last year.

IMO, a VW VR6 swap would rock!

After I wear out my V6 (or it wears out its welcome, whichever comes first), I may be looking into this.

Yea for a similar reason I wanted to use my KLDE03 out of my Mazda. That's a nice V6 DOHC engine, but I don't have the skill so the forum has talked me out of it. Sometimes I wonder if it's an easier swap than people think.. Always think that: One has to do it first for everybody else to jump on the bandwagon. Until somebody tries it nobody will know for sure..

-M

Well, I think the VR6 would be ideal for me being that I work on German cars everyday and have the factory laptops as well as the connections to be able to get some major horsepower out of it.
I'm still concidering the swap, but the engine and transmission fits on a Fiero cradle with room to spare.
Dave

quote Originally posted by bmwguru: Well, I think the VR6 would be ideal for me being that I work on German cars everyday and have the factory laptops as well as the connections to be able to get some major horsepower out of it. I'm still concidering the swap, but the engine and transmission fits on a Fiero cradle with room to spare. Dave

Then do it, get in in there and lemme tell ya with it sitting there you will do ANY thing to get it going, i certainly did with my ecotec...

The new VW V6's are rated at 280hp. That would make it a 3800 killer. Someone please make this work. Love german power.

quote Originally posted by WisconsinGT: The new VW V6's are rated at 280hp. That would make it a 3800 killer. Someone please make this work. Love german power.

Hardly. 3800SC's are in this range, and with a $50 pulley swap, can be over 300hp.

If it's just b/c you have the engine, throw it on eBay and use the funds to go after another choice...unless you have the time and fabrication skills necessary. Otherwise, you're just setting yourself up for disaster.

It doesn't have to be a 3800SC, I just threw that out as an example. The caddy 4.9L is a very good swap on a budget, and while I've never done one, i understand it can be completed by an average enthusiast in a weekend.

ahem ...... a VR6 by its self could not stand up to a 3800SC but how about we boost the VR6 and watch the poor little 3800SC get its butt stomped into the ground by a 400hp beast and thats without touching the internals. With a set of new pistons and connecting rods and taking it to the 20psi area it will produce over 600hp. Ohh and if you have the 24v VR6 you can just tune that bad boy to 320bhp NA and still be ahead of a 3800 because its lighter and has a even power band up to 7k. I love VW but I cannot afford to fix them and they have not made a decent body since the gen3 R32 and those are out of my price range. The first and only time I went over 200mph was in a turbo AWD 6spd manual R32 with the 24v VR6 and it was really nice and felt like race car and if you dropped the clutch with traction control off you could burn all 4 245 tires from a dead stop ( I think I just messed myself) but man what a car.

I love the smooth revving vr6's. With my 3.4DOHC I originally tried to emulate that engines powerband. It just wasn't the same. I drive a 99 mrk3 VR6 Golf GTI almost everyday and love that thing. Such a sweet and unique sounding engine!

That being said, do the swap and tell me how!

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--180* t-stat, cams, 96-97 intake swap, FFP pulley, A/C Idler, P/S idler, Ported exhaust mani's, flowmaster exhaust, EGR delete, K&N filter, chip-- --13.8 @ 99 (before cams full street trim)--
--Check out the Fiero Kingdom!--
Beater: Flat black 90 CRX with a JDM D15 VTEC <--ballin'!

quote Originally posted by pacethis: Hardly. 3800SC's are in this range, and with a $50 pulley swap, can be over 300hp. If it's just b/c you have the engine, throw it on eBay and use the funds to go after another choice...unless you have the time and fabrication skills necessary. Otherwise, you're just setting yourself up for disaster. It doesn't have to be a 3800SC, I just threw that out as an example. The caddy 4.9L is a very good swap on a budget, and while I've never done one, i understand it can be completed by an average enthusiast in a weekend.

Well, I assume that I would know more about the VR6 than the 3800. The shop I own works on only german cars. I see on average two VR6 engines in my shop a day. We can fabricate everything needed....I made the front engine mount for my V8 with the help of our local CNC machinist. We have MIG and TIG welders, and I should have the time to do this come November.
As for the BMW swap. I was concidering a V12, but the frame would have to be stretched. The M52 and S52 would require frame stretching, as well.
I got the go-ahead from the boss, aka my wife, for the VR6. I'm not going to boost it, but it will still put out enough hp to whup a 'Vette.
Dave

On a german fiero-messageboard there is a guy who has a VR6 in his Fiero. But he just bought it and doesnt know much about the swap for now.

quote Originally posted by bmwguru: Well, I assume that I would know more about the VR6 than the 3800. The shop I own works on only german cars. I see on average two VR6 engines in my shop a day. We can fabricate everything needed....I made the front engine mount for my V8 with the help of our local CNC machinist. We have MIG and TIG welders, and I should have the time to do this come November. As for the BMW swap. I was concidering a V12, but the frame would have to be stretched. The M52 and S52 would require frame stretching, as well. I got the go-ahead from the boss, aka my wife, for the VR6. I'm not going to boost it, but it will still put out enough hp to whup a 'Vette. Dave

Sorry, was getting you mixed up with Renegade...

Hey, if you have the skills and time to do it, more power to you! Can't wait to see the results!

Best of luck
Josh

I was referring to stock numbers. But thanks for the info.!

Hey bmwguru...I will loan you my car for you to play with...What do you think?

quote Originally posted by pacethis: Hardly. 3800SC's are in this range, and with a $50 pulley swap, can be over 300hp. If it's just b/c you have the engine, throw it on eBay and use the funds to go after another choice...unless you have the time and fabrication skills necessary. Otherwise, you're just setting yourself up for disaster. It doesn't have to be a 3800SC, I just threw that out as an example. The caddy 4.9L is a very good swap on a budget, and while I've never done one, i understand it can be completed by an average enthusiast in a weekend.

[This message has been edited by WisconsinGT (edited 08-16-2007).]

I am interested in this swap because I love the characteristics of the engine and the exhaust note.

I would LOVE to build an individual throttle body setup even if its ungodly expensive cause I love the look and the characteristics it adds to the engines sound/ exhaust not.

[This message has been edited by Psychosis39 (edited 08-16-2007).]

I'd say get all the info you can on the golf GTI w12.
http://www.autoblog.com/200...-of-the-gti-w12-650/
reverse technology and all that...

quote Originally posted by Formula88: How about a TDi swap out of a Jetta and go for the mega mileage?

This is the swap that pops in my head every time someone talks about swapping a VW engine.

I am not a fan of the TDI for personal reasons. I like the older MB diesels, but I have a good handful of customers with the TDI cars.
The goal here is to make a Fiero with a German drivetrain. If I were to take the VR6 and add a turbo, I'd have a 9 second car. I'm leaning toward reliability. I figure on a stage 1 performace increase on the engine leaving all stock internals. Lighter flywheel and custom tune.
I am going to research this swap for the next two months and gather parts. My V8 Fiero should be painted and 100% completed before October 31st. November 1st, I will be starting this swap....hopefully driving it by New Year's.
Dave

quote Originally posted by swisscheese: On a german fiero-messageboard there is a guy who has a VR6 in his Fiero. But he just bought it and doesnt know much about the swap for now.

What's the website? Some of us on here can read German, and wouldn't mind drooling over the swap.

-M

[This message has been edited by Austrian Import (edited 08-17-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Austrian Import: What's the website? Some of us on here can read German, and wouldn't mind drooling over the swap. -M

Its on www.fiero.de
located in the thread named : Einbau eines 2,8L V6 Baujahr 1986 in Fiero 1987

But his post is kinda confusing, he writes that he has no running engine in it and that there is a VR6 in it. So obviously it broke down.
But follow the thread yourself.
Just remember, there aren't that much Fieros over here, so the site is kinda slow compared to pff

I have done the research and I am definitely going through with the VR6 swap. The 1.8 turbo just doesn't do it for me. I figure I am going to do a stock VR6 install and work out the bugs. Then in about a year I'll be upping to a turbo or supercharger to add some power.
I have a mock up block and transmission at my shop, but I have to shop for a donor car to get the real thing. The car in the picture was a customer's getting the engine replaced. Unfortunately, I can't rebuild his old block. Connecting rod #3 is hanging out of the hole in the side of the block.
I found a local salvage auction place that holds auctions twice a week and I should be able to get a complete 2000-2003 Jetta VR6 for less than $1000.00 Hopefully, I'll find one smacked in the rear with little blood inside. I'm not about to spend over $5,000 for a running car with high mileage. Worst case....I'll buy a low mileage engine and reman manual transmission and make the wiring harness and engine computer myself.
Dave

Any new info on this swap???

Im interested....