Has anyone tried the Mellings Performance cam kit from autozone for $104.00. I purchased one thinking it was going to be the usual 262 duration cam, boy was I wrong. Now I'm a little worried that I have too much cam for my poor 2.8. It turns out that it is 282/293 with .470 lift.

How horrible is this thing going to be?

I've got a 272 and it idles fairly smoothly at 950. (Well... it should, once I program some of the fuel out. It's kinda rich, now.)
My lift numbers are .454/.480.

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Raydar
88 4.9 Formula IMSA Fasback..........................88 3.4 coupe -soon to be something other than red

Read Nealz Nuze! Praise the Lowered!

quote Originally posted by fieroluv: Has anyone tried the Mellings Performance cam kit from autozone for $104.00. I purchased one thinking it was going to be the usual 262 duration cam, boy was I wrong. Now I'm a little worried that I have too much cam for my poor 2.8. It turns out that it is 282/293 with .470 lift. How horrible is this thing going to be?

I'm not familiar with that brand of camshafts, and after doing a bit of searching, I'm not sure WHAT you have for a camshaft.

First, Mellings (with an "s") doesn't make camshafts.

Melling (without an s") does.

Second, it appears from their on-line catalog that Melling makes only one camshaft for the 2.8L or 3.1L V-6 engine, their part number, MTC-5.

However, Auto Zone's website shows three Melling camshafts for that engine, but comparatively little information about any of them.

What is the part number of the Melling cam you have, MTC-5 (also shown on the Melling website), MC1290, or 104001?

Perhaps more importantly, does the information that came with your cam specify its "duration @ 0.050"? That is a common camshaft industry term and a much more meaningful number than "advertised duration." (You quoted a duration of 282/292, which I'm assuming is the "advertised" duration, because a duration @ 0.050" lift of 282/292 would be completely unstreetable --- guaranteed!)

Yeah I'll have to check when I get home tonight. I just thought it was kind of odd. I was taking a chance since the autozone website didn't give any info about the cam at all. But yeah I'll look at the box when I get home and post all of the spec's. What I posted earlier I was going totally from memory when I looked at the box yesterday, so they might be somewhat skewed a little. I do know it was 282 and 290 something. The lift I was guessing on. Not sure if that was advertised duration or not. I'm sure it had to be.

If you find the advertised duration numbers, that would be helpful as well. That will allow us to compare the cam's duration @ 0.050" with its advertised duration. For a given type of cam (hydraulic in this case), the smaller the difference between those numbers, the newer the cam design tends to be. The larger the difference, the older the cam design tends to be.

For example, let's take the hydraulic 272 cam from Crane which Raydar mentioned he has. If his is the current version of the 272 Crane cam, it has advertised intake/exhaust durations of 272/284 degrees, and intake/exhaust durations @ 0.050" of 216/228 degrees. This represents a difference of 56 degrees on both the intake and the exhaust, which is indicative of a fairly new design for a hydraulic cam (but a difference of only 50 degrees, let's say, would be even better). Conversely, if you see a difference of 70 degrees or more between the advertised duration and the duration @ 0.050," you've likely been sold a downright ancient cam design. Accordingly, I'd be inclined to return it rather than install it, even if its price seemed attractive and its duration @ 0.050" specs appear to make it reasonably streetable.

However, I don't see any of that duration information on the Auto Zone website, although it could help a prospective cam buyer to better gauge the modernity of the cam design prior to purchase. If the difference were small, you'd think that for those in the know, the camshaft's seller would want to highlight the small difference, not hide it. However, because that information is NOT readily available on the Auto Zone website, I'm guessing the difference is more than 70 degrees and the Melling cam's design is an ancient one.

heres a link to many different cam specs
http://www.engine-parts.com/GMV6/28camspecs.html

If all the info is not on the box I have a degree kit at home, but am missing the wheel. It's the only thing in the kit I'm missing. If I can find someone around me locally that has just the wheel I'll degree the cam and find out what it spec's out at.

Stock cam lift is .394/.410. I'm not sure on duration.
Seems like I've seen your cam before. I'm not sure where.
In terms of lift, it's just a hair less than the Crane 260. (.427/.454) Again... not sure about duration.

Project34...
Thanks for the clarification and info.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 06-29-2007).]

quote Originally posted by fieroluv: So looks like the old hyd cam type with it being off by 70. Which I don't care about. I really didn't want a big cam for this car.

There are two ways to view the difference between advertised duration and duration @ 0.050."

One way to look at it is that at a given advertised duration, one can have a more radical, "performance" cam (as indicated by its duration @ 0.050") with a newer cam design than with an older one.

A second way to look at it is that at roughly the same performance level (as indicated by a given duration @ 0.050"), one can have a smoother running, more streetable engine with a newer cam design (same duration @ 0.050" but lower advertised duration) than with an older cam design.

I was viewing the problem the second way because you'd expressed at the outset a desire to avoid an overly radical cam.

Despite its fairly lengthy advertised duration, after seeing its limited duration @ 0.050," I don't think the Melling MTC-5 cam is overly radical. It just appears to be based on a dated cam design, which probably helps explain its relatively low price, as well as the fact that Auto Zone isn't flaunting the Melling cam's advertised duration and its duration @ 0.050."

Regardless of which cam you choose be forewarned. The modern motor oils are not good for an engine that has flat tappets. Back in the day when most Detroit iron ran flat tappets. To help prevent premature lifter wear the petrolium industry added zinc to oil to increase wear protection. As cars began to age motor oil found it's way into the combustion chamber which added to emissions. The big three started going with roller cams which didn't require as much zinc, and thereby reduced long term emissions. The oil companies reformulated their motor oils removing some of the zinc. The zinc level is suffceint for an engine that is already broken in, but not enough for a fresh cam & lifters. Large truck engines still use flat tappet cams, and subsequenty truck motor oil still has high quantity of zinc, and therefore is good to use as break-in oil. I found this out after losing a new cam. I now use Rotella 15W45 motor oil for the break-in period, then switch to a synthetic 10W30. I have lost no cams since going to this break-in procedure.

Chuck

quote Originally posted by Raydar: Stock cam lift is .394/.410. I'm not sure on duration.... In terms of [the Melling cam's] lift, it's just a hair less than the Crane 260. (.427/.454) Again... not sure about duration.

Raydar, according to Robert Wagoner's book, "High Performance Fieros," the stock Fiero V-6 camshaft has intake/exhaust durations @ 0.050" of 196/203 degrees.

According to Crane Cams' on-line catalog, the current 260 Crane cam has intake/exhaust durations @ 0.050" of 204/216 degrees, similar to the Melling cam's 204/214 degrees intake/exhaust durations @ 0.050."

In summary, relative to the MTC-5 Melling cam, the 260 Crane cam has about the same intake/exhaust durations @ 0.050" (2 degrees more on the exhaust with the Crane cam) and valve lifts (only 0.005" more on the intake and 0.010" more on the exhaust with the Crane cam). However, the 260 Crane cam apparently has noticeably shorter intake/exhaust advertised durations (260/272) than does the Melling cam, and thus seems to be a more up-to-date design than does the Melling cam.

fieroluv, returning to your earlier question about whether or not the MTC-5 Melling is even a performance cam, I'd say that given their somewhat but not radically longer intake/exhaust durations @ 0.050" and their higher valve lifts relative to the stock Fiero cam, one probably could classify BOTH the 260 Crane cam and the Melling MTC-5 as "mild performance cams."

The difference between the advertised duration and the duration at .050" seems like it would be indicative of at least part of the camshaft's ramp profile. The smaller the difference between the two, the steeper the ramp. A steeper ramp (opens the valve faster) is good for power but comes at the expense of putting greater load on the lifters and cam lobe face. It might be worth trading some of that ramp rate for component longevity, especially considering the increasing rate of cam lobe damage due to recent (post-SL) oil formulations and the outsourcing of lifter manufacture. I always use GM EOS or a "blue bottle" additive like STP with the zinc dialkylthiophosphate (or whatever it is) extreme pressure lube since declining levels of the stuff is at least partially responsible for cam lobe wiping. I haven't had a problem adding the stuff with any engine ever.

May be worth considering....
Kurt

quote Originally posted by KurtAKX: The difference between the advertised duration and the duration at .050" seems like it would be indicative of at least part of the camshaft's ramp profile. The smaller the difference between the two, the steeper the ramp. A steeper ramp (opens the valve faster) is good for power....

I agree with your initial observations about the cam's ramp profile (above).

However, if one sticks with a reputable cam manufacturer, I don't see a cause for concern here that would warrant using older, typically slower-ramped, cam designs in the pushrod V-6. For example, Raydar and others have been using the hydraulic 272 Crane cam successfully in their V-6 Fieros for some time now, and the difference between its advertised intake/exhaust durations and its durations at 0.050" are only 56 degrees. This difference is indicative of perhaps not the most state-of-the-art ramp design, but one likely more modern than that of the MTC-5 Melling cam design discussed earlier in this thread.

Again, I see nothing inherently wrong with the MTC-5 Melling cam. It just doesn't appear to be one of the more modern cam designs out there.

Perhaps the more important issue here, raised by this thread's originator, fieroluv, is whether or not his newly purchased Melling cam is "streetable." I've no personal experience with using that cam, but based on its moderate intake/exhaust durations @ 0.050," I would think that it is.

quote Originally posted by fierochild: Regardless of which cam you choose be forewarned. The modern motor oils are not good for an engine that has flat tappets. Back in the day when most Detroit iron ran flat tappets. To help prevent premature lifter wear the petrolium industry added zinc to oil to increase wear protection. As cars began to age motor oil found it's way into the combustion chamber which added to emissions. The big three started going with roller cams which didn't require as much zinc, and thereby reduced long term emissions. The oil companies reformulated their motor oils removing some of the zinc. The zinc level is suffceint for an engine that is already broken in, but not enough for a fresh cam & lifters. Large truck engines still use flat tappet cams, and subsequenty truck motor oil still has high quantity of zinc, and therefore is good to use as break-in oil. I found this out after losing a new cam. I now use Rotella 15W45 motor oil for the break-in period, then switch to a synthetic 10W30. I have lost no cams since going to this break-in procedure. Chuck

Good point. After hearing several horror stories concerning the 272, I have been using Rotella T exclusively in mine. Purchased by the case from Sam's Club, it's not any more expensive than any other dyno oil.
Of course, break-in is the most critical time, but it's cheap insurance to keep using it.