I am looking for a solid 3800SC series II engine for a club member that wants to do a swap . He wants a new crate engine or something low miles and in very good shape. Anyone know who has these engines in stock. The compnies that once had them in abundence like Pace list them as discontinued but I believe that the series II is still used in many GM cars like the Impala, Bonneville, & Park Avenue There are a bunch of 3800SC series II's listed on www.car-part.com but you never know the mileage on these. They seem to be sold on a "just trust me" basis. Any ideas?

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87GT 3.4 Turbo- 0-60 5.2 seconds
2006 3800SC Series III swap in progress
Engine Controls, PCM goodies,
re-programming & odd electronics stuff
" I'M ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

The Series III are the current gen engines, not Series II.

Here is a link to the series III crate engine from gmperformance parts. It's the second one on the page.



GM PART # 12499470
CATEGORY: Eng Asm
PACK QTY: 1
CORE CHARGE: $0.00
GM LIST: $4,892.00
OUR PRICE: $3,561.38

DESCRIPTION: 3800 Series III Supercharged Production Engine
12499470 3800 Series III Supercharged Production Engine

This high output supercharged V-6 Crate Engine (RPO L32) features the following: 260 Horsepower @ 5400 RPM and 280 lb-ft @ 3600 RPM torque Sequential fuel injection Bore is 96.52 mm and Stroke is 86.36 mm with 8.5:1 compression ratio Iron Block, Iron Heads and Hydraulic roller design camshaft This engine powers the Buick Park Avenue and Regal, Pontiac Bonneville and Grand Prix, Chevrolet Monte Carlo, and Chevrolet Impala This production engine includes: exhaust manifolds, intake manifold, supercharger, injectors, fuel rail, balancer, water pump and flywheel

Technical Notes: Pulley, belt, p/s pump, a/c pump, starter, alternator and engine cover are not included with this engine

This place has Gen III brand new:
http://www.crateenginedepot...2499470-P829C56.aspx

and they also have Gen II in the reman section. Note the Reman's don't have the SC but they are L67 specs. You need to buy the reman SC seperately.

http://www.crateenginedepot...-12362221-P52C3.aspx

[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 06-18-2007).]

http://stores.ebay.com/Morad-Parts-Company

He will sometimes have low milage setups. As long as the compression tests for all cyl are all the same, in the 170-180 range, good to go. Wouldnt go any lower then 160.

We have a engine ordering from him to replace one in a l67 swapped fiero. Guy bought it already done, but the job was a mess, and motor is burning oil.

Ed is a great guy, and is a god over at ClubGP.com , i myself have bought lots of odd ball things from him for good pricing and quick shipping. If its 3800 related, he probably has it in stock.

Talk to Lloyd at...
http://www.fastfieros.com/

I'm sure he'll be able to hook you up with something. At the minimum he'll have some contacts of where to find them.

I am the one that Dennis is posting for. I want a series ll because it is a cheaper swap then a series lll. I would like to get a series ll with the lowest miles possible. I would like to get a new or remanufactured engine but i do not know of a place where i can get one. Thanks for any help anyone could give me.

I bought my 4t65ehd from Morad parts too and I'll add my recommendation. I got a good price and good service.

quote Originally posted by Winkie: I am the one that Dennis is posting for. I want a series ll because it is a cheaper swap then a series lll. I would like to get a series ll with the lowest miles possible. I would like to get a new or remanufactured engine but i do not know of a place where i can get one. Thanks for any help anyone could give me.

With the series III drive by wire ETC setup, you have to change everything back to the L67 parts to get it to run with cable TB control . IMO attempting a true series III swap is asking for problems and adding hours of work to the swap. So if you use L67 engine management, the series III TB, MAF, IAT, O2 sensor, PCM , harness, fuel rail, fuel pump and many other things need to be swapped for the earlier parts. Sure starting with a series III can get the job done but it adds some bucks for the extra parts that the series II already comes with. The 3800 series II ( L67) was used until 2005 on Buicks, Impalas and Bonnevilles so they should be around. I'd bet that some dealer has a new crate engine in stock somewhere and low miles engines pop up on eBay all the time.

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87GT 3.4 Turbo- 0-60 5.2 seconds
2006 3800SC Series III swap in progress
Engine Controls, PCM goodies,
re-programming & odd electronics stuff
" I'M ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

I have a drive by wire TB from a L32 setup, but honeslty I wouldnt bother.

You want the GENV setup from the L32, and get the adapter plate to add a L67 TB, or ls1 or N* ...

quote Originally posted by jdredd: http://stores.ebay.com/Morad-Parts-Company He will sometimes have low milage setups. As long as the compression tests for all cyl are all the same, in the 170-180 range, good to go. Wouldnt go any lower then 160. We have a engine ordering from him to replace one in a l67 swapped fiero. Guy bought it already done, but the job was a mess, and motor is burning oil. Ed is a great guy, and is a god over at ClubGP.com , i myself have bought lots of odd ball things from him for good pricing and quick shipping. If its 3800 related, he probably has it in stock.

I would also reccomend Ed Morad. Bought my Series II from him with 17,000 miles. great guy and trustworthy.

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My best advice when it comes to your Fiero is to "NOT" do any dealings with www.kitcarman.com

VIAGRA - Strong enough for a man but made for a woman

Realistically, how difficult would it be to install the series three with the drive-by-wire system? Naturally you are getting away from the "standard" swap that so many people have done and breaking new ground is always a challenge (even though it has been done, it is still new ground compared to the "standard" swap). You would also have the added expense of adapting the gas pedal to the drive-by-wire setup.

Outside of the obvious wiring nightmares, what other issues would pop up? What are the performance limitations of the drive-by-wire systems, and how difficult would they be to overcome?

here is one thing if you go drive-by-wire then you can't upgrade the throtle body to a larger bore. also what if the system fails. All these new technologies are bound to fail in the future sucks if the gas pedal stops working.

A true series III drive by wire swap needs 1. an accelerator pedal module and interface box, 2 a special returnless fuel pump that is under PCM control 3 the transmisson, gauge cluster and interface connections or it won't work properly 4. PCM reprogramming support is scarce. 5. the feel of a ETC system is nonlinear and leaves lots to be desired.
ALso as pointed out series III operation leaves little room for mods later on. On the other hand L67 control has been with us for 10 or more years and has more support. There is a reason why you don't see series III swaps in abundance. I can only point to one that is working successfully.

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87GT 3.4 Turbo- 0-60 5.2 seconds
2006 3800SC Series III swap in progress
Engine Controls, PCM goodies,
re-programming & odd electronics stuff
" I'M ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

I wouldnt be afraid of doing a ETC swap, the tuning is more than there now, PowerTuner supports fully 04/05 pcm's. The gas pedal is not a big deal, and there is only a slight amount of extra wiring. But hey, the electronic throttle sucks anyway, so why would we even want it.

Ed Morad, nough said.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: I wouldnt be afraid of doing a ETC swap, the tuning is more than there now, PowerTuner supports fully 04/05 pcm's. The gas pedal is not a big deal, and there is only a slight amount of extra wiring. But hey, the electronic throttle sucks anyway, so why would we even want it.

and it does!!!!

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87GT 3.4 Turbo- 0-60 5.2 seconds
2006 3800SC Series III swap in progress
Engine Controls, PCM goodies,
re-programming & odd electronics stuff
" I'M ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

Thanks for the responses. I asked this because I have the opportunity to get a great deal on an 05 3800SC. It appears that some of the extras that Dennis mentions will take a bite out of the "great deal". Can the ETC system be used with a manual tranny? I assume it can since I believe that last round of fully manual trannies in the vettes were done with ETC. Regardless...I decided the "great deal" wasn't great enough to overcome the aggravation and will be sticking with a Series II for my swap.

quote Originally posted by Younggun88: here is one thing if you go drive-by-wire then you can't upgrade the throtle body to a larger bore. also what if the system fails. All these new technologies are bound to fail in the future sucks if the gas pedal stops working.

Although you can't upgrade the throttle body in the same way that you do now...remember that most of the engines that we swap the throttle body from are now drive-by-wire as well, making it not impossible, but different. Of course new technologies will fail....so do older ones. Everything fails eventually. I have no desire to start an argument here, so I will just state that I know some people will disagree...but the drive-by-wire system IS safer than the physical throttle cable. I place safety over reliability (I am not going to argue reliability, but since I have never had an ETC system fail they are reliable enough for me). It is safer because in the case of an electrical failure, the throttle body will physically default to the idle position. Believe me, there is nothing worse than having your mother call you from her cell phone and say "I am standing on the brakes and the car is still doing 120 mph, I can't make it slow down, what do I do?" That happened to me thanx to a throttle cable on a 97 Eagle Talon (sad thing is, my reaction was "Bullshit, your car tops out at 109")

The biggest deal with a series 3 is just turning it into a series 2, which all that involves is tuning/changing the injectors to series2, the throttle body to series2, and run a obd2 (98-02) pcm on it. It can be easily used with manual or auto transmissions, as aside from injectors/TB a series 2 is identical to a series 3 (for argument sake people).

As far as this ETC disucssion goes, there is no reason to say that its safer than anything else, nor more dangerous than anything else. It is plain and simple just an annoing way of dealing with turing the throttle blade. There is NO REASON you would ever want a ETC over a cable throttle in a fiero, unless you were planning on a very involved project doing somthing that I dont understand.

These "extras" dennis refers to are very very simple to overcome, and are almost nill next to what the actual swap involves. The series 3 blower, the gen5 m90, is worth almost $800 right now to people with series2 motors because it is by far better and more efficent than older gen3 blowers. The throttle body adapter plate is very simple, and can be purchased for less than $80 at vendors online, orf made for much less. In my group here in michigan, we ONLY buy series 3 motors to do projects with now, due to the low mileage, and we can usually sneak a new blower out in the deal, helping pay for the motor upfront. We have used probley 4-5 series3 motors in series2 setups in the last year.

I also wanted to remind you that only the pontiacs got the series3, every other 3800SC in any year is a series2.

[This message has been edited by darkhorizon (edited 06-19-2007).]

Ed Morad has tons of stuff, often including new or very low mile motors.

http://www.moradpartscompany.com/

Ed@MoradPartsCompany.com

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Thinking about dropping the L67 from my gp into a Fiero.
12.466 @ 114.15 INTENSE S1X/ZZP IC/TOG Headers

anybody?

http://www.reconengines.com/stockautoengines.html

This is a local to South Philly company, they either have or can get just about anything. if you want a stock type motor with a warranty and can't get it through GM use these guys. I have done so repeatedly for cylinder heads, blocks etc.. They will sell anything you want from parts to complete motor ready to drop in. I have a contact guy, although he is super busy and hard to get ahold of but try just calling there, you should be able to go and pick it up or get it delivered...

Thanks multmigs i will call them up.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: The biggest deal with a series 3 is just turning it into a series 2, which all that involves is tuning/changing the injectors to series2, the throttle body to series2, and run a obd2 (98-02) pcm on it. It can be easily used with manual or auto transmissions, as aside from injectors/TB a series 2 is identical to a series 3 (for argument sake people). As far as this ETC disucssion goes, there is no reason to say that its safer than anything else, nor more dangerous than anything else. It is plain and simple just an annoing way of dealing with turing the throttle blade. There is NO REASON you would ever want a ETC over a cable throttle in a fiero, unless you were planning on a very involved project doing somthing that I dont understand. These "extras" dennis refers to are very very simple to overcome, and are almost nill next to what the actual swap involves. The series 3 blower, the gen5 m90, is worth almost $800 right now to people with series2 motors because it is by far better and more efficent than older gen3 blowers. The throttle body adapter plate is very simple, and can be purchased for less than $80 at vendors online, orf made for much less. In my group here in michigan, we ONLY buy series 3 motors to do projects with now, due to the low mileage, and we can usually sneak a new blower out in the deal, helping pay for the motor upfront. We have used probley 4-5 series3 motors in series2 setups in the last year. I also wanted to remind you that only the pontiacs got the series3, every other 3800SC in any year is a series2.

Agree with everything presented here with only one exception. The series III injectors flow exactly the same as the series II injectors . The series II injectors use either a Multitec or older Bosch style CV1 connector while the series III engines use an injector requiring a CV6 ( USCARS) connector . That is the only difference.

------------------
87GT 3.4 Turbo- 0-60 5.2 seconds
2006 3800SC Series III swap in progress
Engine Controls, PCM goodies,
re-programming & odd electronics stuff
" I'M ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "