Unfortunately guys, it is not a Fiero, but there have been a few threads now and then that pop up regarding things like:
"what oil do you run?"
"are synthetics better?"
"Mobil1?"

Now MstangsBware & Fierophreak (I believe) are both installing 5.3L v8's in their Fiero's... so it is kinda Fiero related, right?

Don't know that I've ever seen real world used oil data posted on this forum, so you can see what one looks like. The real report is very professional looking and comes in adobe or paper hard copy, which does not translate to PFF in a way that I can determine yet...
I would be happy to answer questions you might have about oil or this analysis, though I will not claim to be an expert.

This is my first UAO, and it was not so much to see what was going on with a fairly new motor, but as a means of verifying for myself Amsoil’s claims of extended drain intervals and better protection using their products...

The sample was taken hot, about 1/3 of the way through the drain process. At the time of oil change, I needed about 1qt to get back to the top of the crosshatch marks on the dipstick, so there was no refresher oil added since end of April (I added .5 qt). Given that I had added 1.5qts during the 10,000 mile interval, and that I needed 1 more qt to top up…, I had burned 2.5 qts during that time frame. That is 1qt consumed every 4000 miles. I think that is within reason, and I have read that the GM LSx series of motors are oil consumers. BTW, the OLM (oil life monitor) still had 7% remaining! I found that very interesting!

My prior oil change before this, I was running Castrol synthetic, which come to find out is not really my definition of synthetic at all, just… (If I read correctly) refined to a higher standard and able to be badged synthetic on a technicality, and I was paying almost $6.00 a qt for it. After looking at the cost of a dealership to buy a true lab created oil, and then paying wholesale for it, and weighing my oil needs for 3 vehicles + sundried other lawn eqp & lubrication needs… I decided to give Amsoil a try. Before I sold this to any family or friends, I wanted to have documented proof of what the product does. Here are my results:

---------- begin OA -------------

BLAKE: No problems showed up in the first sample from your Grand Prix. You asked about the
viscosity and it read normally for a 0W/30. Wear looked great for an oil run 10,000 miles. Universal
averages are based on an oil run ~5,500 miles, so your engine is wearing far better than most. No
harmful contaminants were found and the air and oil filters (silicon and insolubles) read normally. The
TBN read 2.4 showing some active additive remaining. 1.0 is low. Try 11,000 miles next time. Nice
engine! We don't know how to convert our data to the formats you mentioned.

CRESSON, TX 76035
EQUIPMENT MAKE:....GM
EQUIPMENT MODEL:..5.3L 327 CI V-8
FUEL TYPE:.............Gasoline (Unleaded)
CODE:....................GXP
ADDITIONAL INFO:....LS4

REPORT DATE:...6/7/07
NAME:..............BLAKE MOORE
E-MAIL:............xxx@yahoo.com

OIL USE INTERVAL : 10,000 Miles
OIL TYPE & GRADE: Amsoil 0W/30
MAKE-UP OIL ADDED: 1.5 qts

OIL REPORT

MI/HR ON OIL :......10,000
MI/HR ON UNIT:.....23,028
SAMPLE DATE:.......05/27/07

*PARTS PER MILLION* / UNIVERSAL AVERAGES
ALUMINUM.........3..............4
CHROMIUM........1...............2
IRON................19.............23
COPPER............65.............63
LEAD................11.............9
TIN..................2..............1
MOLYBDENUM...14..............50
NICKEL............1................1
MANGANESE.....2................2
SILVER............0................0
TITANIUM........0................0
POTASSIUM.....4................1
BORON............9................57
SILICON..........14...............13
SODIUM..........9................9
CALCIUM.........2877..........1699
MAGNESIUM.....13..............378
PHOSPHORUS...697............788
ZINC..............787.............952
BARIUM...........0................0

TEST.....VALUES SHOULD BE.......TESTED VALUES WERE
WATER %..............0................0.0

ANTIFREEZE %.......0................0.0

FUEL %.................<2.0..........<0.5

FLASHPOINT INºF.....>375.........400

SUSVISCOSITY@210ºF:55-67.....60.2

INSOLUBLES %........<0.6...........0.3

COPYRIGHT BLACKSTONE LABORATORIES 2006
416 EAST PETTIT AVE
FORT WAYNE, IN 46806 (260) 744-2380
LIABILITY LIMITED TO COST OF SAMPLE ANALYSIS

--------------- end OA -------------

An interesting point is that in most 'wear items,' I come in under what the lab says the average is for vehicles run 5,500 miles… and I ran for nearly 2x as long. The Boron number is lower from average because Amsoil doesn't use much/any Boron in this blend of 0w-30.

After further study, I tentatively concluded that it would be fine to run this oil on out to 15,000 miles, as the Amsoil literature suggests (for heavy use), especially given that another qt would prop back up the TBN for a while.

BTW, the oil filter is every bit as important as the oil itself when running extended drain intervals. For this sampling, I used an Amsoil nanofiber synthetic media filter.

The new oil in the GXP is an Amsoil 5w-30, that I plan on running to 14,500-15,000 miles. I will send a sample in of that too, and compare the results. Things I want to compare with that are: Any different wear patterns?, and any difference in gas mileage between what Amsoil suggests & what the factory specs?. I'll post that report too, gimme about 4 months

Also, I am not lying here... my average mpg wen't from 21.3-7 to 22.9-23.5 when I switched to Amsoil. Just using very loose & towards the low end of the scale real world dollars. That oil change paid for itself in gas savings despite being a high dollar botique synthetic. I tried to doubt their claims on wear and mileage savings, but the math is not lying.

(edit to add that part about the gas savings)

[This message has been edited by blakeinspace (edited 06-13-2007).]

Hey cool check it out you send your oil to be analyzed a couple miles from where I work.

So where can I buy AMSOIL? I have checked all the auto parts stores around here and none of them carry that brand. Isn't Mobile1 just as good?

quote Originally posted by fieroluv: Hey cool check it out you send your oil to be analyzed a couple miles from where I work. So where can I buy AMSOIL? I have checked all the auto parts stores around here and none of them carry that brand. Isn't Mobile1 just as good?

That is funny that you work so close to one of the most famous labs in the oil industry.
As to where to buy Amsoil... One can purchase retail online, and they can ship it to you. Or you can buy from a dealer (prolly same price as online) just look in the phone book. You know what...? There is an unfortunate stigma attatched to people that sell this oil, so I'll just PM you, I don't wan't to come across as a commercial. As for the stigma... it is probably deserved, and people associate Amsoil with Amway... and the two are not linked at all except for tragically sharing the first two letters of a company name.

Mobil 1 is a quality synthetic. It is honestly king of the hill in sales. It is the OEM oil that many performance vehicles have in the crankcase right off the assembly line. *** NOTE: conspiracy theory alert *** I think they subsidize (i.e. give it away for free to the manufacturer) to have it in the cars, and for the priviledge of putting "Mobil1 Xw-XX" on the oil filler cap. Think of the marketing leverage! The sales guy can say, "Yeah, and it comes with Mobil1." as a selling point. And the consumer, every time they pop the hood, sees an oil fill cap that plugs one brand... Dude that is power. That is also pretty smart.*** end conspiracy theory ***

If I wasn't running Amsoil, I'd be running Valvoline synthetic, Royal Purple, or Redline. M1, I think, has gotten away from their roots, and has focused less on quality and new blend packages, while raising their prices, based on market share. Having said that, It is still good stuff, I just don't think it is the best anymore. Especially when at wholesale I can get better or equal for cheaper. It was the sticker shock of looking at putting 6.5qts of M1 in that Grand Prix v8 that led me to look at Amsoil.

Ok, after checking the web site I'm sold. It'll cost me 53.20 to do an oil change and not have to change it for a whole year or 25,000 miles. Yeah buddy. I do a lot of highway miles. Or I should say my wife does and this would go in her car. I am so sick of doing oil changes every 3 weeks on her car. That alone would save me a bunch of money in just oil changes.

I lived in Duluth Minnesota for a few years right across the harbor from Superior Wisconsin where they make Amsoil. The owners of the company are top notch guys I worked in radio then and they did a lot of promotional stuff right in the local area with my radio stations. A lot of it was with snomobiles and their snomobile race team. Very cool company. That being said.

My question is however, I have been told that once you put in a synthetic especially Amsoil that you need to keep putting Amsoil in your car. I was told that it changes somethings in your gaskets and seals and if you switch back you have problems. Is that true or should I buy a case tomorrow?

There is only one reason to buy a top quality synthetic ,the synthetic flows to the hottest spots in the engine it will not harm your gaskets,a quality synthetic is more slippery than regular oil and will leak more than regular oil but it will also soften seals and often extend thier life if your engine is worn you will use a lot of oil stay with regular..mobile one is a great product and all you need ,but if you can afford it amsoil is the way to fly i am to cheap to buy amsoil,but if i had an expensive engine with a fiero cooling system i would pay the price ..My information comes from reading and listening to car mechanic repair shows on talk radio,,this war was won by synthetic oil in the mid 90s i still have some of the reports from motor trend in the 90s.of course regular motoe oil has advanced and is far superior to what it was even 10 years ago,the fiero is an old car with cooling problems.so a lesser synthetic purchased on sale is the least you should do for a fiero i bought mine at big lots for $3.00 a quart i run the crap out of my duke ,synthetic may save your engine if you overheat it!! synthetic is a solution to a problem that exist in the fiero world the pipes run front to back ?? stan

I've never honestly used Amsoil myself. I have been a consistant user of Mobile One. My choice was based on inside information I recieved from a employee from Southwest Reserch Center in San Antonio...in the 90"s. They have a division that test automotive performance fluids and other stuff. He didn't give me specifics, but if he had a performance vehicle, Moble one would be the one to use. However I don't know if Amsoil was tested or not. I do know that Synthetics are smaller molecules than conventional thus better lubrication, more serface contact with metal thus more heat convection. I personally dont like to run a new car with synthetic oil untill the motor was broke in. Today's engines are built with much tighter tolerences than ten years ago, thus Synthetic in a new motor is fine now. Back then most high end GM cars came out with conventional oil and was switched to Synthetic at 3k for free (GMC/Corvette/etc.) They just didn't tell the customer that's what they were doing. I worked at a dealer at the time and the first oil change was free to the new car customer with a higher end car.

I'm not a believer of poured performance except for oil and engine treatments. I'm a slick 50 person too. Yes I do mix slick 50 and Moble One and never had a problem except better gas milage. Usually 2-3 miles better than before. I also noticed engine cranks easier for the stater too. Another trick I use Slick 50 and Moble One for is for pocket knifes. I'll mix the two and dip the knife blade into the mix for about 5 minutes, remove and flash with a torch to bake into the pours of the metal. Wipe clean and sharpen again. Slides smooth across whatever I cut with it.

It's hard to say what is fact or advertised propaganda, But if you can find people who have had first hand exsperience then that Is a good way to figure out what works.

As Far as Amsoil is concerned I never tried it because I was told that it was Graphite based which has a higher clogging rate compaired to other oils so most compatable filters would have to have a lower micron rate. Again I don't know if this is true. However i am always open for new things if i can get proof to support it. I may try this out on my lawn mower an see what happens.

Bob

quote Originally posted by procarnut: I'm not a believer of poured performance except for oil and engine treatments. I'm a slick 50 person too. Yes I do mix slick 50 and Moble One and never had a problem except better gas milage. Usually 2-3 miles better than before. I also noticed engine cranks easier for the stater too.

Slick 50 lawsuit on so called claims (they lost)... http://www.ftc.gov/opa/1997/07/slick.shtm

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 06-14-2007).]

Try this instead: http://evergreenamerica.com/index.cfm

My Local Napa stores have Amzoil. I ran their 2 cycle in my SkiDoo ZR440 sled. Its good stuff sure, I still couldn't get myself to go that long without an oil change in a car though, and my newest car is an 03, I can't run synthetics in anything else I have because of the potential for leaks. My old 69 Chevy Biscayne's 327 burned synthetic at over twice the rate it burned dino oil. If I bought something new, you're darned right I'd run full synthetic, Probably be Castrol though.

quote Originally posted by 2.5: That Evergreen stuff sounds like PTFE, thats in Slick 50 I believe, as well as most other 'coats the metal parts" additives, not that its bad, I used Prolong in my 90 Grand Am and it worked well. Can't find Prolong anymore.

Boric acid. Slick 50 uses Teflon which doesnt actually chemically bond to the metal like the boron compounds in Motor Silk, so you have to replace Slick 50 every time you change the oil, unlike Motor Silk.

If its good enough for the US gubbment, its good enough for me.

[This message has been edited by AP2k (edited 06-14-2007).]

Does it need a "booster" every other oil change or so? What is your experience running it, noticable?

quote Originally posted by fieroluv: Ok, after checking the web site I'm sold. It'll cost me 53.20 to do an oil change and not have to change it for a whole year or 25,000 miles. Yeah buddy. I do a lot of highway miles. Or I should say my wife does and this would go in her car. I am so sick of doing oil changes every 3 weeks on her car. That alone would save me a bunch of money in just oil changes.

The packaging says you can go 25k on it...,

It does indeed say that..., I honestly don't doubt it (now)... but I am not going to run the same oil for 25k. If one chooses to do that, I thnk Amsoil says you need a filter change at some point, and when you do that, you will lose & replace a quart or two, so it is like 1/3 of an oil change. I think that is how they surmize you can run a 25k OCI (oil change interval). It is not suggested for strenuous driving conditions. Like a lot of idling (unspent fuel from idling thins oil and uses up the TBN), towing, dusty climates.
In Fort Worth, there is enough traffic and city pollutants in the air that 25k is too much to ask of any oil. IMO.

But I do hope you have good results, and that it saves you money (in the long run) and time. Those two reasons can really justify the initial cost.
Plus it looks like, based on this UOA, that it does indeed decrease engine wear.

Man, you have no idea what it took to convince myself to let it go 10,000 miles. All my driving life, if I wasn't under a car at 3,000 miles with the catch bucket, I was convinced that the motor would grenade when it rolled to 3,001. When I switched to Syntec a few years ago, I started a 5,000 mile OCI, after doing enough research in mags and internet data saying that anything less on a synthetic was just wasting money.

I will have a wierd feeling the whole time I drive the car to the 15k OCI. It seems wrong. For you guys that run nothing but a 3,000 OCI bcz that's the way pappy did it on the his Oldsmobile... believe me... nothing wrong with that, you can put a dollar value on peace of mind. But with today's oils and additive packages (even on dino oil)... you can go much further.

*sniff, sniff*
Smells like Blakeoil.

ha ha Get it? snake oil or BLAKEoil.... lol I just crack myself up.....

Hey that makes Blake... a Blakeoil salesman!!! lol

What is next??
New Blakebooster for our brakes??
New Blakepads??
Oh maybe new supercharger blakeoil.

If I were to do this I would buy their oil filter as well for 17 bucks, they state that their oil filter will go 25K as well.

The only driving that car sees is interstate driving. We put about 1000 miles a week on that car. It doesn't do much idling at all. That car fits the profile perfectly for their normal driving scenario for 25K.

quote Originally posted by 2.5: Does it need a "booster" every other oil change or so? What is your experience running it, noticable?

I dont actually use it. My engine only has 10k miles on it since its rebuild, so its not time yet. However, chemical analysis says that it never needs another boost unless you change internal parts. Although I would suppose that wear over the course of 100k miles or so it may need another treatment. Of course that's me guessing, since the wear of parts is going to be far less than without it, so I cant say for certainty (or if such an endurance test has ever been conducted) how much wear the parts need in order to require a new treatment.

quote Originally posted by uhlanstan: There is only one reason to buy a top quality synthetic ,the synthetic flows to the hottest spots in the engine... (snip)

Stan, I don't know about that... I mean, any oil flows to any part of the engine, right? regardless whether it is a hot spot or not.

Now if you are saying that synthetics handle heat better, have higher flashpoints, maintains viscosity under heat stress, are less likely to sheer,.... then I am on board with you. I just got this vision of your sentence of oil being like a heat seeking missle. It's not that. Maybe Borg nano-oil someday? BTW, I agree whole heartedly with the rest of what you said. Procarnut mentioned smaller and more uniform molecules that provide greater surface area allowing more heat transfer... the results are what you are getting in your 4 banger.

Curlrup... I have heard the anecdotes of synthetics causing motors to swell the seals, leak like sieves, cleaned sludge out which clogged such & such port or my oil filter and blew my motor. I don't doubt a single one. They sound plausible to me. That last one sounds like the car was a time bomb anyway. What I CAN tell you is on my Fiero when I got it with 89k on a tragically abused and neglected 2.8 ticker..., it did not leak at all. It did however, smoke on startup, have a lifter or two tapping, had a noisy valve train, and alarmingly poor oil pressure. I poured about 1/2 qt of tranny fluid in the oil and buzzed the car around for about 30 mins, then drained the gruel out.

Put in some 5w-30 Castrol dino oil... and oil pressure was soooo bad, that I did not feel comfortable keeping it in the car. Did the tranny fluid bit... that oil was in the crankcase for less than 500 miles. Went to Valvoline Dura-Blend 5w-30. Oil pressure up, other symptoms decreased. At some point... I did notice leaks. 5000 miles later, did the tranny fluid trick again... The next oil change, I went to Dura-Blend 10w-30, hoping to slow the steady drip (at least they were fairly clean drips!). That oil change, my leaks actaully got worse. I was pretty disappointed... though I was glad my oil pressure was good at all RPM ranges, and all the valve train noise was now gone. It even smoked less on start up. Next 2 oil changes went to Valvoline Dura-Blend 10w-40. My car has stopped leaking. It went from zero to steady leaks with a 'blended synthetic'... to nearly back to zero. It took 24,000 miles and 6 oil changes, several of them sludge cleaners right before I emptied the oil... to get to this point. I am now running Amsoil 15w-40 heavy duty diesel oil in the Fiero... and it seems to be liking it.

I guess the moral of that story/experience is: I too heard the stories/warnings about taking a dino era car, and putting in synthetics... so I went with the blend first. Now I am on full synthetics, and can't really explain to you why my leak has stopped. I assure you it is nothing that I did to valve covers or bottom end. Oh yeah, I still get a short burst of smoke on start up... guess synthetics won't cure my leaky valve guides

quote Originally posted by revin: *sniff, sniff* Smells like Blakeoil. ha ha Get it? snake oil or BLAKEoil.... lol I just crack myself up.....

Ahhh... here comes brother revin, to offer us his very valuable insight into a legitmate thread.
Thank you revin. Your comments are always timely and appropriate.
Better clean those heavy chrome wheels of yours... I saw a lot of Blakedust on them at the last car show

Speaking of Blakeoil... I think I left some in your bedroom last time I visted...

eh... you could be like James... he calls it 'Spamsoil'... which is kinda funny when you think about it.

Well, haevy weight Synthetic, could be thicker than thin weight dino, that probably does it. I always wondered how thick to go because it would not "slosh" as well hitting all parts. (?)

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 06-15-2007).]

Hmmmnn... very intresting stuff

just out of curiosity where does castrol fall on the quality scale,
cause im poor and it is usually cheap so i use it often

synthetic oil does hold up for 10000 miles. doing an oil analysis will show its still within its weight range by that time. theres a website out there where they did this on a camero using mobil 1.
however, what they dont say is what DOESNT hold up by not changing your oil. things like your pcv system will clog and you will begin to consume oil and lose gaskets. sludge will begin to form rapidly and in the end you will actually be hurting your engine more. this is what happened to mercedes with their amazing idea that theyre cars could take a 10000 mile oil change and now were forced to plug into the damn things and read theyre stupid electronic dipsticks becasue they started getting sued for this foolish idea. all the cars i see that dont change their oil regularly all have sludge buildup and premature gasket failure as well as loss of the pcv system which then causes the throttle body to gunk up, valves to get sludged up, and who knows what else.

as for finding any actual study on this its amazingly hard to do, especially with amsoil because they seem to have bought out all of the search engines and websites to post all of their biased findings that their oil is the greatest on the planet, look carefully and youll see that every website that says this is an authorized amsoil dealer. the only unbiased study i found was this camero test and they only consistantly did mobil 1. when they switched to amsoil they gave up (probably from boredom) but found that the weight of the oil shot up to 15w40 or something like that and they started at 5w30 within 5000 miles. i also did not save this site so happy hunting.

WOW... where to start?...

quote Originally posted by megafreakindeth: synthetic oil does hold up for 10000 miles. doing an oil analysis will show its still within its weight range by that time. theres a website out there where they did this on a camero using mobil 1.

You mean this?
http://neptune.spacebears.c...tories/oil-life.html

quote however, what they dont say is what DOESNT hold up by not changing your oil. things like your pcv system will clog and you will begin to consume oil and lose gaskets. sludge will begin to form rapidly (snip)... cars i see that dont change their oil regularly all have sludge buildup and premature gasket failure as well as loss of the pcv system which then causes the throttle body to gunk up, valves to get sludged up, and who knows what else.

Not entirely true. The part about the affects of a clogged PCV system is true, but extended OCI's using a quality synthetic are not going to kill a PCV or sludge a motor. You CAN get indicators of motor sludging from a UOA, it will show up in oxidation and insoluables. Moreover, forget the UOA... just perfrom this simple test... When you take off a used filter, and poke open the anti-drainback valve to let out the oil, collect it in a clean container and let it settle. If there are black flakes in there, then there is or was some buildup in the engine. Mega, it sounds like the cars you see suffer from neglect, not conscientous gearheads who perform regular maintenence, no matter what is in the oilpan.

quote as for finding any actual study on this its amazingly hard to do, especially with amsoil because they seem to have bought out all of the search engines and websites to post all of their biased findings

OMG... and I thought I was bad with conspiracy theories... Dude, that it is the most stupid piece of drivel I have ever read. You think Amsoil has the backing & power to control the internet?... To control millions of opinions regardless of negative or positive? Since the world went electronic, I don't think that power of censorship exists anymore.

quote that their oil is the greatest on the planet,

Finally, something that makes sense OK, to your credit, I took that out of context, but it is funny. You know, many enthusiasts compare Amsoil to Royal Purple, and Red Line, and often consider it a class higher than say Mobil1 or Motul. I see you don't share that opinion, and I don't necessarily either... but that is why I am posting real world data... and did not bother to take the thread to an Amsoil commercial.

quote look carefully and youll see that every website that says this is an authorized amsoil dealer.

Yes, many Amsoil dealers have private web sites and are obligated by the charter they signed and the law to mention that fact.
Uh... so what's wrong with that?

quote the only unbiased study i found was this camero test

(see first link I posted)

quote and they only consistantly did mobil 1.

not true

quote when they switched to amsoil they gave up

No, they did not give up, they ran the oil for 1 year or until it's TBN was exhausted. The year lapsed, 14,000 miles later.

quote (probably from boredom)

Again, no, Paradise Garage had planned all along to test several different brands of oil in the study. Unfortunately, the man that was performing the study was killed in a car wreck. NO... before you even think it... Amsoil did not put out a hit on him.

quote but found that the weight of the oil shot up to 15w40 or something like that and they started at 5w30 within 5000 miles.

Well, close, but it was actually around 8000 miles (IIRC) that the thickening was observed. If you read my first post, I specifically asked the lab to look at the viscosity level of this oil. 10,000 miles and it did not change it's viscosity range. It was actually the Paradise Garage study that made me ask about the thickening issue.

quote i also did not save this site so happy hunting.

(see first link I posted)

Despite the thickening of the Amsoil, the report card was glowing. The blend I put in my car this go around, is the same 5w-30 that Paradise Garage used on their LS1. I plan on going 15k, check back to see my results. I assure you it will be factual, and that my affiliation with Amsoil is just so I can get the oil cheaper. I doubt corporate is going to browse a Fiero forum looking for an Amsoil thread to whack somebody or buy them off...

It will be interesting to see if the 5w-30 exhibits the same thickening.

-edit- to fix quote tags

[This message has been edited by blakeinspace (edited 06-20-2007).]