I have been reading on this subject and I have read that methanol injection would be useless on a stock L67, but some vendors suggest an intercooler would help? That sounds ass backwards to me. If an intercooler adds 30-50whp why wouldn't meth injection do the same? From various sites and cars there has been comparative testing and the methanol injection resulted in lower intake charge temps...why not just run meth injection?

[This message has been edited by goatnipples2002 (edited 06-13-2007).]

The methanol you inject displaces air that would otherwise be going into the engine (lowering volumetric efficiency) and the methanol you inject is not as good as gasoline (don't confuse methanol with nitromethane). I don't think alky injection would be pointless but you really might as well go with an IC. Not sure how compatible the blower is with having alky blown through it either.
Alcohols and aluminum can result in corrosion, just ask anyone who runs an alcohol fuel car or gocart (M90 = aluminum)

water meth injection allows you to run more advance on your timing .that is how you can get more power (or stop detonation without retarding timing )it does not affect the amount of gasoline or efficiency .go to rb racing website or pick up the july issue of turbo magazine for the proper technical info on water meth injection .

the facts are no one posted any improved times with alky injection. It takes a bunch of tunning to get it close so you need a powertuner/hp tuner. the only good thing about it is the kr reduction. the intercooler is proven and easy to tune for. from all the people i talked to most have said it was fun on the street but it was not a track mod. If i was you i would save my money for a intercooler

There is a place in theory for mostly pure water injection on 3800s, but it really is only practical in the super high boost areas, like 30psi with turbos. The intercooler on blowers tends to keep the air density from spiking alot, and is very effective at cooling charge air, just as much as a very tuned water injection.

If any of you guys like kurt are versed in water injection, check out this stupidly pointless argument I tried having about this on another fourm with some redneck grand national guys.

http://www.daddyfadiracing....s/viewtopic.php?t=40

Intercooling and water/alcy injection both serve to lower combustion temperatures and both can be effective. I must disagree with Kurt on the amount of air that he claims is displaced with water/alky injection. Yes it does displace a small amount but talk about flow, an intercooler is a radiator type of device inserted under the 3800 supercharger, right in the air flow. For this reason I don't feel that we can characterize one method as taking more air space than another.
An intercooler works by lowering the air temperatres of the boosted air charge. So does alky/water injection. Both will help reduce detonation and allow you to run more timing for increased power. Alky/water injection must be tuned while an intercooler is installed and works constantly. My preference would go to intercooling but alky/water injection has been used successfully in boosted applications. The trouble with it is that the spray must be adjusted to the amount of boost used and this requires a sensor and controller that helps determine how much to inject- similar to a progessive nitrous controller.

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87GT 3.4 Turbo- 0-60 5.2 seconds
2006 3800SC Series III swap in progress
Engine Controls, PCM goodies,
re-programming & odd electronics stuff
" I'M ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

quote Originally posted by wftb: water meth injection allows you to run more advance on your timing .that is how you can get more power (or stop detonation without retarding timing )it does not affect the amount of gasoline or efficiency .go to rb racing website or pick up the july issue of turbo magazine for the proper technical info on water meth injection .

Water increases the compression ratio since it doesnt mix with the air as much as the gasoline, so it does increase erfficiency slightly.

Dennis, you are right in a way, the volume of liquid water pumped into the engine isn't that substantial, but when the intake temps are reaching and exceeding the 300 deg F mark (as they are with most roots style blowers over 15psi) then you have to be concerned about the volume of water vapor displacing intake air. As you know, water expands a great deal when going from a liquid to a gas.

This is the same reason why gaseous-phase propane-fueled engines tend to be down on power a bit despite the excellent atomization and higher compression ratios. Liquid phase propane injection carries the benefits of propane and makes more power. In 1998/1999 my school built a propane-powered Dodge using this concept.

the snow injection system i have on my turbo ecotec powered 86 gt is a stage 2 kit that came with a boost sensing electronic controller .you pick the injector nozzle size and then set the start spray boost level and the full spray boost level and it is progressive between those points.it comes with three nozzles.it was very easy to set up and the only other change i had to make is 32 lb injectors.stock ecm controls it still.
i am going to add an air to water intercooler .there is no room for an air to air IC .i will still retain the water meth injection as i plan to take the boost up to around 15 psi .hahn racecraft uses both on there high boost cars.

I have heard both sides of the fence on this debate and it seems way cheaper, easier and effective to run wiper fluid. A Snow stage 1 kit runs $250 plus a $1 for a gallon of wiper fluid. And the cooler runs 2-5 times that price.

winter washer fluid is what i use .about one gallon per tank of gas depending on how much i stomp on it .i can use less when i run premium gas .

quote Originally posted by KurtAKX: Dennis, you are right in a way, the volume of liquid water pumped into the engine isn't that substantial, but when the intake temps are reaching and exceeding the 300 deg F mark (as they are with most roots style blowers over 15psi) then you have to be concerned about the volume of water vapor displacing intake air. As you know, water expands a great deal when going from a liquid to a gas. This is the same reason why gaseous-phase propane-fueled engines tend to be down on power a bit despite the excellent atomization and higher compression ratios. Liquid phase propane injection carries the benefits of propane and makes more power. In 1998/1999 my school built a propane-powered Dodge using this concept.

Kurt: You certainly are correct in that water will expand when heated, but most systems use a 60/40 alcohol/water mix and some use pure 98% alcohol. These mixtures tend to be nearly as combustable as gasoline but of much higher octane. I'll give you that too much water could displace a substantial amount of air but again let's compare the lost air volume with that which is lost when you place an intercooler in the air path. If you examine the intercoolers used on the 3800SC's they do place some restriction in the air flow thereby displacing air! So which is better? I'd say an intercooler is because it doesn't need tuning but they also cost 3-4X what a good alcohol water injection system costs. I will probably use alcohol injection on my 3800SC as most of these intercoolers raise the supercharger up and can create deck clearance issues. The only guy that I met with a 3800SC intercooled Fiero is Dave (Skitime) and he had to do extensive deck lid reworking to make his intercooler fit.

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87GT 3.4 Turbo- 0-60 5.2 seconds
2006 3800SC Series III swap in progress
Engine Controls, PCM goodies,
re-programming & odd electronics stuff
" I'M ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

find 1 guy on the top 50 gtp 1/4 mile list that has alkie injection. You keep listing other cars and how it works on them, but the fact is that as a 3800 mod goes its not worth the money. guys put this on there car and tune it in r,un super small pulleys and 20+ timeing and still run slower than guys with a 3.4 pulley and little other mods. from the million posts that are on clubgp it looks like the higher octane plus the added effort to turn the blower from the smaller pulleys negates any gains you get from the injection. higher octane is not always the answer. all things being equal 89 octane will make more power than 93. if you want to cool the air and make more power. get a nitrous fogger kit with a 35 nozzle and spray that. But hay if you think you can be the first guy to make this work then i cant stop you.

most of the cars using meth injection successfully are turbocharged cars , and among that grouping of people you dont find too many people that will argue against its effectiveness .why it isnt more popular with superchargers , i dont know .could be the lower boost levels and the problem with where to put the nozzle.

its a proven mod with the turbo cars. I was a believer at one time. i made my own kit out of spare parts i had. it killed kr like a champ but still didnt make my car faster. if you want to try it there is one for sale on clubgp.com for 200 or best offer and he cant give it away. i wish it would work. its cheep and easy. it may lie in the way a roots blower works i have no clue. If you do find the missing link let me know you will be the saver of the gtp world!

It doesn't give you more power directly but if it allows you to turn the boost up three or more psi than you could without it for this price it's a good investment if they're results are any indication. I would suspect the location of the supercharger is part of the problem with it's use in that application.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...0131832694&rd=1&rd=1

If used with a good intercooler you could adjust its activation point to a high level since in that setting it will not offer as much improvement, but every little bit helps and since not as much misting will be required you will not have to fill the reservoir as much and will still have the added benefit although not as great as would be on a non intercooled engine.

[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 06-14-2007).]

it comes up every year on clubgp

and every year new people try it..

and every year the cars are still slow

and every year it's decided IC is the way to go


just like last year.. people will think the last 7 years have been a fluke and some one was putting the nozzle in the wrong place.. or they must be using the wrong setup... but when they try it.. they too will see it doesn't make your car go faster.

if you wanna just kill knock alone then go for it..

but to be honest I think you're just being stubborn and cheap if you go with "alky"

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87GT
Massachusetts
ignorantprodigy@aol.com

quote Originally posted by ignorant prodigy: but to be honest I think you're just being stubborn and cheap if you go with "alky"

That's assuming the trend is for him to follow your advice, and that a good intercooler is more expensive than the water/meth injection kit. You'll make a "lot" of friends with that kind of one-liner.

Some might think we are all stubborn and cheap for doing the things we do to 20 year old cars when one can just as easily go and buy a newer faster sports car in stock trim than what we end up with after we finish. Insults are never good or friendly by nature; That's something we should all consider out of common courtesy.

I'm not trying to make friends.. but you have a few people trying to explain how the results just haven't been there but you still get responses like this...

quote Originally posted by goatnipples2002: I have heard both sides of the fence on this debate and it seems way cheaper, easier and effective to run wiper fluid. A Snow stage 1 kit runs $250 plus a $1 for a gallon of wiper fluid. And the cooler runs 2-5 times that price.

It just seems like people have made up their minds before they posted..
I'm all for the debate.. but it's just a tired subject for the 3800 crowd

you got to understand where ignorant prodigy and I are coming from every year it pops up on club gp like he says. there are big heated thread after thread that all end up with the same conclusion. INJECTION DOSE NOT WORK ON A 3800. first they figured it was due to only one stage, then a progressive kit came out, WRONG. Then it was thought that we cant tune the a/f right, along came the powertuner, WRONG. there are tons of pages where people say i can run a 3.0 pulley and 20 deg timing with no mods and 0kr. but run slower than if the car had the 3.8 pulley still on there. 250$ is cheep for a mod, but not if it dose nothing. If you want to go this route do like i said above. get a bottle , wot switch a nitrous selinoid and a 35 shot fogger nozzle. you will get a nice 35hp kick in the pants and a way cooler charge.

you just get a little frustrated when see over after over people wasting time and money. there is a reason that no 3800 vendor sells a injection kit.

quote Originally posted by chrisgtp: you got to understand where ignorant prodigy and I are coming from every year it pops up on club gp like he says. there are big heated thread after thread that all end up with the same conclusion. INJECTION DOSE NOT WORK ON A 3800. first they figured it was due to only one stage, then a progressive kit came out, WRONG. Then it was thought that we cant tune the a/f right, along came the powertuner, WRONG. there are tons of pages where people say i can run a 3.0 pulley and 20 deg timing with no mods and 0kr. but run slower than if the car had the 3.8 pulley still on there. 250$ is cheep for a mod, but not if it dose nothing. If you want to go this route do like i said above. get a bottle , wot switch a nitrous selinoid and a 35 shot fogger nozzle. you will get a nice 35hp kick in the pants and a way cooler charge. you just get a little frustrated when see over after over people wasting time and money. there is a reason that no 3800 vendor sells a injection kit.

I'm doubtful about its effectiveness on an SC motor just by the nature of the design, the mist needs some time to absorb heat and it also needs to come after the boosted charge to be most effective in my understanding, looking at the initial post it is clear that some simple formulas dealing with heat exchange as well as a few simple diagrams will help him better understand why the intercooler by itself in all its simplicity is very effective simply because it makes it possible for more air to enter the engine without turning up the boost, and it doesn't alter the combustion mixture chemically causing energy loss in the manner that water/meth injection can in exchange for its benefit.

One point that will help him get a better understanding of the effectiveness of the intercooler is that if it's a really good one having for instance a .5 psi pressure drop at 15 psi boost yielding a net 14.5 psi at the manifold and only a 3% loss in pressure. How would that compare to the same engine at the same boost pressure with water/meth injection which apparently is little or not at all effective on the 3800 SC in which case you might not be able to run that kind of boost pressure with just the injection kit alone, and if it permits you to turn the boost up for more power it still is not the most effective since you had to do so in order to get the results the IC provided without a boost increase.

It's just a matter of comparing efficiencies and clearly from what was stated water/meth just doesn't work well for the 3800SC from the experiences. I can however understand the questioning given there is no posted data to support what is being stated. I chose to turbocharge and intend to use water injection in addition to an intercooler.

This is what I bought for my project which will be augmented with the injection kit I linked to above.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...em&item=250124900100


There's room in the back, however I still have to re-explore the possibility of a front mount with plumbing hidden inside the rocker panel spoilers, clearing the front cross member without getting to close to the road is the key.

[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 06-14-2007).]

Most of the responses so far are from some very technical folks. I will stick to what actually happens - no theory. I have a stock 2.8 with a turbo set to a max. 8 lbs. of boost. I installed a water / injection system at the time the turbo was installed. As noted above, the kits usually come with a variety of nozzles; one selected based on the engine displacement is the one to use. Very specifically, the turbo application I have increases the engine hp to 199 hp, intake air flow increases by 51%; the average increase in intake air temperature under boost is 94 degrees; the water alcohol injection system reduces the increase in air intake temperature by 53%. The water / alcohol mix is instantly vaporized within the intake as it enters the plenum, as the mixture cools the boosted air, it becomes more dense and cooler air being more dense then hotter air, contains more oxygen and therefore provides more oxygen to each cylinder. Additionally, the alcohol is supposed to provide between 1/2 to 1 more pound of boost -but this is not measured by the boost gauge. Don't forget, there is absolutely NO added air restriction with a water/ alcohol injection system as there is with the more expensive intercooler systems. The timing can remain, in my case, at 10 degrees BTC or higher with no sign of detonation.
People laugh at my next comment, but facts are facts - The WWII P 51 Mustang, with the US Packard built Merlin engine used a water/ alcohol system and it was the fastest piston engine plane in WWII. Yes I am that old and it was good enough then and still is. Ed

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I have also seen it come up year after year, and I have also seen 3800sc cars not benifit from it year after year.

I helped to install a w/i kit on my friends gtp. We dyno'd a before and after set up and he LOST HP after installing the w/i.

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Thinking about dropping the L67 from my gp into a Fiero.
12.466 @ 114.15 INTENSE S1X/ZZP IC/TOG Headers

quote Originally posted by Firefighter: Most of the responses so far are from some very technical folks. I will stick to what actually happens - no theory. I have a stock 2.8 with a turbo set to a max. 8 lbs. of boost. I installed a water / injection system at the time the turbo was installed. As noted above, the kits usually come with a variety of nozzles; one selected based on the engine displacement is the one to use. Very specifically, the turbo application I have increases the engine hp to 199 hp, intake air flow increases by 51%; the average increase in intake air temperature under boost is 94 degrees; the water alcohol injection system reduces the increase in air intake temperature by 53%. The water / alcohol mix is instantly vaporized within the intake as it enters the plenum, as the mixture cools the boosted air, it becomes more dense and cooler air being more dense then hotter air, contains more oxygen and therefore provides more oxygen to each cylinder. Additionally, the alcohol is supposed to provide between 1/2 to 1 more pound of boost -but this is not measured by the boost gauge. Don't forget, there is absolutely NO added air restriction with a water/ alcohol injection system as there is with the more expensive intercooler systems. The timing can remain, in my case, at 10 degrees BTC or higher with no sign of detonation. People laugh at my next comment, but facts are facts - The WWII P 51 Mustang, with the US Packard built Merlin engine used a water/ alcohol system and it was the fastest piston engine plane in WWII. Yes I am that old and it was good enough then and still is. Ed

The effectiveness on a turbocharged engine has already been acknowledged, it's the lack of effectiveness when used on the supercharged 3800 which is entirely different regarding the dynamics that's in question, at 8 psi with a good intercooler you are not likely to see an appreciable pressure loss and even if you do the loss has to be close to or greater than the gain for it to be significant.

The apparent result from what I have read here and elsewhere is if you install a good intercooler you gain, tuning adjustment or not. If you install water/meth in place of the intercooler all else the same, you don't gain as much if you don't make tuning adjustments to take advantage of its anti knock qualities because you traded a little gasoline for the lower energy water/meth injection and that reduces power, in the same manner that E85 does and can be considered synonymous with the pressure drop you might experience with an intercooler.

They both work well for turbo engines but I believe the intercooler has the advantage if mainly due to no maintenance requirement after install and it's dependability having no moving parts or reservoirs that need to be properly filled for that rare occasion you absent mindedly let someone who has no idea of what detonation is drive your car. I'm certain the boost level being run will ultimately determine which of the two is best for a given application.

Did your friend try different nozzles, different mixtures or various activation points. Did they "lean out" the W/I to the point there was no KR and less water being sprayed? I mean I am not saying it does or doesn't work, but in theory the purpose is to lower intake temps and reduce KR which it has been reported to do...which has been confirmed by members on here and in other forums, but the reason it won't ALLOW more power to be made baffles me. I always understood that cooler air and no KR lead to the ability to run more boost and make more power. I will read more.

[This message has been edited by goatnipples2002 (edited 06-14-2007).]

How about using 98% alcohol injection? It's much higher octane than gasoline, volatile and will cool the inake charge. Higher boost w alcohol may provide bettter results than water/alky injection. Wonder if any 3800 owner has tried this?

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87GT 3.4 Turbo- 0-60 5.2 seconds
2006 3800SC Series III swap in progress
Engine Controls, PCM goodies,
re-programming & odd electronics stuff
" I'M ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 06-14-2007).]

Alcohol ounce for ounce doesn't have the energy potential (enthalpy) of gasoline even at 98% not to mention the downside of its corrosive nature. I'm assuming boost is being turned up after its installation on the 3800, though I don't recall it being mentioned. If not that's one reason there is no performance improvement, because the purpose of installing it is for the anti knock properties. If you don't have knock problems it apparently doesn't offer much. It's benefit is manifested in how much additional boost or compression ratio you can run without detonation because it adds more stability to the air fuel mix, like going from 87 to 93 octane gas, not much if any power increase there but there is room for more boost or compression which can allow you to make more power safely.

[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 06-14-2007).]

after reading most of rb racing websites information on water injection , i think the problem with using it on the 3800 is the fact that you need a much more complex system than is readily available for the 3800 to gain from water injection .you need a port injection system for each cylinder and it needs to be injected after the supercharger .i think the cost would out weigh the gains because it would be a lot easier just to put an intercooler on .
that being said ,everyone should have a look at rb racings website .this site has amazing tech info and products that could be of use to a lot of us .they are behind some of the fastest turbocharged and supercharged bikes on the planet .

A wet n2o kit, what about that?

[This message has been edited by goatnipples2002 (edited 06-15-2007).]

Many many people have tried and it just doesn't help or it hurts, but the only reason is that you have to spend a very long time tuning it, AND the people who try it are cheap and don't have a clue about what they are doing. In my 86GT "WITH A 5SPD!", a '97sc, I had 2.5 exhaust, 4" intake, w/i and a 3.0 pulley. I started at 13.83 at 100 w/ the 3.8 pulley, and the best I ran was a 12.72 at 115 w/ the 3.0. I tuned with a 3.5, 3.4, 3.25, 3.2, and 3.0. I didn't just flood it with mix and kill the knock, I spent hours tuning for each pulley and my times got increasingly faster.

You'll spend alot of time, but once youre done, its done. If you spend alot of time putting the car together, it isn't much to spend a few hours tuning

What about nitrous, boost and blue juice?

RideZiLightning

so you ran a 12.7 with a 3.0 in a fireo. woo ****ing who. i run a 12.7 in my gtp with a 3.0 and i have a 1000 pounds on you. a proper set up running a 3.0 in a fiero should be an 11 sec run. and my car stlll runs. can you say that about yours?

there was alot of testion with everything from strait water to 98% alch . they where people who made space plates and injected after the m90 they was even a guy that had a lim drilled and taped for deriect port

hay do what you want i wont post any more if you would like to talk more shoot me a pm

I had absolutely no other mods and a 5spd, do you understand? The gearing in the getrag is aweful for this motor, have you driven a 5spd 3800sc car? And what are you talking about still running? I don't even have the car, I sold it for 6k, and I've had 3 swaps since then, all running fine. AND if you remember my thread, I made it with a fogger plate and directly injected into the lim. I don't know of any fiero w/5spd with just an intercooler and a 3.0 pulley running 11's or close to 11's

ok,thats way different if you say you had no other mods than i call bs on your whole story. you want me to believe your the only one who made water injection work? kid you are so full of it. when i was talking to your dad on the phone he said your swap didnt run right. you didnt do 3 swaps go back and read your old post. your first swap was not that long ago. Dallas why do you feel you have to lie so much.

I did those cars way before I even started making seats, dark's car is a 4spd, and that wasn't the last time I ran the car. Rockers were changed out with the head after my timing chain went and bent my valves. I lied about one issue and now everything I've said in the past is a big lie? People make mistakes and I fixed our problem so get off my back.

I tried the water injection thing eon's ago... hey i got the kit for free... while i was able to run a 3.25" with only mods being ubend removed, hot air intake, and rockers with 0KR, the kit itself was troublesome.. I used a 50/50 mix of water/meth with uplon? lube i think it was to keep the meth from killing all the seals.

Always having to tweak here, leak there, fluid running out in the worse time.. It had 0KR, but hurt performance. Even with better 60 foots, times didn't improve over 3.4".

For a 3800, A/W IC is the best way to go with the stock m90. Will it work better for a turbo setup? Maybe, GN guys seem to dabble with it, with some real results.

My 2nd car, im glad I got it IC'd... ran 2.7" all summer long with cam and headers, stock catback with no issues.

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DHP Helpdesk
http://digitalhorsepower.helpserve.com/
98 GTP , 98 GTX

everyone i know running it has the noticed the following

1) running low octane gas and the timeing still all in (no retard due to detonation or temps)
2) 25% + cooler running intake temps
3) cleaner exhaust valves less carbon build up
4) since the intake temps go down so do the exhaust temps so more boost can be run
5) meth or alky + water gives a higher octane rating to the fuel system
6) sky high AF ratios are not needed when tuned for it
7) you must experiment to find the best setup ie nozzels etc as having wrong will reduce power

some data i pulled off a kit manufacturers site

1. Maximum Torque occurs at a 13.2:1 Air Fuel Ratio.
2. Transitional Fueling and Maximum Boost Air Fuel Ratios are about 12.5:1.
3. Water Injection is most efficient with a 50/50 water alcohol mixture.
4. Methanol, as an additive, is not a practical choice as it is prone to pre-ignition, is not safe to handle and is not readily available.
5. Denatured (ethanol) alcohol, typically 95%, is cheap and is available in paint, hardware, and Home Depot type stores in gallon containers for about $10.00. Isopropyl alcohol can be used but it is often 30% or more water by content.
6. Water Injection allows ignition timing to be more aggressive or closer to stock. In other words boost does not automatically mean retard your timing.
7. Excessive amounts of ignition retard will cause a loss of power and overheating.
8. Water to Fuel ratios should be based on weight and not volume.
9 . Water weighs 8.33 lb per gallon.
10. Alcohol weighs 6.63 lb per gallon.
11. Air weighs .080645 lb per cubic foot. It takes about 150 cubic feet of air per 100 horsepower. It takes about 12 lb of air per 100 horsepower.
12. Water or Water / Alcohol to Fuel Ratios are between 12.5% to 25%. This means Air to Fluid Ratios are between 11.1:1 and 10.0:1 with water injection.
13. Maximum water delivery should be in higher load low to mid rpm ranges tapering somewhat at peak rpms where load is less.
14. Atomization of the water mixture is directly related to it effectiveness. Finer droplets cool the inlet charge better and with less mass they navigate the inlet plenum easier for more equal water distribution.
15. Don’t flow water through an intercooler.
16. Atomized water, just like fuel , does not like to make turns thus making accurate distribution something to think about. This is why port fuel injection is the norm. Water is a fluid just like your fuel. Multiple nozzes, equally spaced in the plenum, although it complicates things, is a superior design.
17. The introduction of water will allow higher boost pressures to be run without detonation. Higher pressures will increase torque. It’s always about torque.
18. Racing high octane gasoline should be used for all forms of competition and for higher than normal boost levels. Water injection as well as charge cooling should be used with racing gas. 91/92 Octane pump gas simply will not cut it.
19. Fuel Injectors operate in the 1 Millisecond range and are not capable of long term usage for H20 as they will corrode or rust shut in a very short period of time. Unless a solenoid can open as fast as a fuel injector it should not be used to "pulse" water injection events.
20. Varying voltage to water injection pumps or using similar schemes is a recipe for disaster. You have to eliminate the variables, not increase them.
21. Fuel Injection pumps cannot be used for water injection. Water is conductive. Gasoline is not. Water will corrode an efi pump shut in a very short period of time.
22. Water injection has a cooling effect on the engine head, valves, and cylinder. Exhaust temperatures (EGT) are largely unaffected at recommended water / fuel ratios.
23. The cooling of potential hot spots in the combustion chamber defeats pre-ignition, the most destructive form of uncontrolled or unplanned combustion.
24. Higher static compression ratios will require a higher percentage of water or water / alcohol.
25. No, water does not burn. We are not combusting the hydrogen in the H2O.
26. At around 13.2:1 or fuel air ratios of .75, EGT’s will peak.
27. Ferrari suspended water in their fuel during their 1980’s Formula1 period. We don’t recommend that you try this...although Acetone will mix with water.

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87 Fiero GT 5sp with Vortec L35 4300 Turbocharged V6
Bully Stage 2 clutch
Syclone intake manifold and engine management with Moates adapter and chip burner
Air/water intercooler and Devil's Own progressive water/alky injection
50lb injectors, 3 bar map sensor, Walboro fuel pump and Jabasco Intercooler pump
LM1 wideband on custom manifolds and 3" stainless exhaust system
T31/T04B S4 turbo with a Super T61 in the box
S10 caliper conversion.
Murphy's Constant Matter will be damaged in direct proportion to its value
Murphy's Law of Thermodynamics Things get worse under pressure.
Arthur C. Clarke "Any significantly advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"

you should buy 2 of them, you can get rid of twice the knock... here comes 9s WOOOOOT!!!

I will repeat what I said earlier. Every year people buy these and end up without any positive results. The hundreds of people that have already been there could not have all been idiots. You are not the special 1 that it will work for. For what ever reason, the 3800sc motor doesn't like it (probably due to spraying through the blower).

I have seen it many many times since I started tinkering on these back in 2001....take it for what its worth.

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Thinking about dropping the L67 from my gp into a Fiero.
12.466 @ 114.15 INTENSE S1X/ZZP IC/TOG Headers