I think I am going to have to get the engine in my 86 GT rebuilt. The water pump went and I drove it for a little ways after and I think i cooked it. Wanted to know if it would be more cost effective to get a new engine or rebuild mine.

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Chuck
86 GT
07 Solstice GXP

I asked this same question and every one told me to do an engine swap. I checked out the costs for the 2.8's and if you buy a reman from jasper its almost 2 grand. If you buy the s-10 2.8 from crate engine depot its a thousand. If your rebuilding it youself you could add performance mods and it will be about the same price as a new one. To have one installed or rebuilt by someone is around 3 grand. So if your having it done might as well replace it. I called 5 places and the prices were relavtivly the same between 2500 and 2900. Hope that helps.

If you have a lot of time on your hands, rebuild it yourself. Otherwise, buy a rebuilt one that comes with a warranty. By the time you tear the original down, go through all the parts, and put it back together, you will have spent a WHOLE LOT OF TIME. So, the decision really depends on how much you value your time.

I'm rebuilding a Northstar right now, and I'm convinced that I should've bought a crate motor from GM.

I'm rebuilding mine and it's not costing anywhere near a grand. so far I have 300 in machine work, 30 bucks in rings, 60 in an oil pump, 25 in a timing chain, 70 for a gasket kit, and 104 in a cam and lifter kit.

I have a GM mechanic who does work on the side, I am going to let him look at it first and see what he says. This car is going to be my only car soon when I sell my Solstice. I am hoping the engine is not damaged too much.

In the long run, a new engine will cost you less money, since rebuilt engine will not last as long as a new engine.
Rebuild engines lose what, 30% of their overall life? ie. an engine that is good for 100,000 miles new, might only last until 70,000 miles after it`s rebuilt.

That`s my knowledge though. Could be wrong.

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Sig by F-I-E-R-O

quote Originally posted by AZStreak: In the long run, a new engine will cost you less money, since rebuilt engine will not last as long as a new engine. Rebuild engines lose what, 30% of their overall life? ie. an engine that is good for 100,000 miles new, might only last until 70,000 miles after it`s rebuilt. That`s my knowledge though. Could be wrong.

Where did you here that? I rebuilt the engine in my Astro van 225,000 miles ago. There is a difference in rebuilding an engine and just putting rings and bearings in an engine. if you just throw rings and bearings at it and don't do it right, yeah it won't last very long. But if you do it right the first time and have the block and crank machined properly, there is no reason that it won't last as long as a new one.

The cost of machine work and parts has risen to the point where I believe that you can get a far better buy by doing a swap of a low miles engine or even buying new. If you change engines you can pick up some horsepower to boot. Around here a thorough 2.8L rebuild is bound to cost $1500 or more. WHen you add in the costs of hot tanking the block, doing the heads, new guides, seals, grinding the valves, checking rods for straightness, magnafluxing , balancing, and cutting the crank, boring/honing, new cam, rod and main bearings, seals, pistons, rings, gaskets, lifters, and miscellaneous worn out parts it just doesn't seem to pay to rebuild. A simple replacement 3.4L upgrade runs about $2000 delivered and you can just bolt it in an be on the road in two days time.

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87GT 3.4 Turbo- 0-60 5.2 seconds
2006 3800SC Series III swap in progress
Engine Controls, PCM goodies,
re-programming & odd electronics stuff
" I'M ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

While you CAN save money by buying someone else's rebuilt engine, you never know what went into it, nor how much care they took in building it.

If you don't have the skills to build an engine yourself, you are pretty much stuck with buying a rebuilt.

I know that I can build a better engine, and take my time doing it, taking much more care than a commercial builder could possibly apply and still make a profit.

I build all my own engines, not just for my race cars, but for the street cars as well.

quote Originally posted by ChuckLS1: I think I am going to have to get the engine in my 86 GT rebuilt. The water pump went and I drove it for a little ways after and I think i cooked it. Wanted to know if it would be more cost effective to get a new engine or rebuild mine.

"I've been there, done that,.... and will never go there again using a rebuilt 2.8 engine. In the end, I spent nearly 2-3k from the rebuilt to various items going bad and I ended up getting a Northstar swap and I've never looked back. If money isn't an issue, try looking for a 3800SC or a V8. That way, you'll benefit from the over-drive and newer technology.

If you wanted a 2.8 for free, ask V8Archie. Most of his customers could care less whose engine bay it ends up at.

[This message has been edited by madcurl (edited 05-15-2007).]

I have a co-worker of mine who has a 85 SE for sale for $300.00. He says the engine runs fine but the car needs a new clutch. Was thinking about buying it and either putting the engine in mine and parting it out or fixing the clutch and driving it while I get the V8 conversion that I really want done on mine. Would the 85's V6 work in mine?

Check this thread. It answers every question at some point. Many of us have done this swap and can answer anything not clear.
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/041835.html

quote Originally posted by fieroluv: Where did you here that? I rebuilt the engine in my Astro van 225,000 miles ago. There is a difference in rebuilding an engine and just putting rings and bearings in an engine. if you just throw rings and bearings at it and don't do it right, yeah it won't last very long. But if you do it right the first time and have the block and crank machined properly, there is no reason that it won't last as long as a new one.

I see. I`ll shut up now

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Sig by F-I-E-R-O

I think there is a difference in remanufactured and rebuilt, I had a 2.8 shortblock remanufactured (machine work, new pistons, rings, bearings, cam, timing set) with warranty for $659.96. All parts that were re-used had to be within the original specs, the only components actually salvaged were the block, crank, and connecting rods. I shopped around and had almost settled for a remanufactured unit from AutoZone and at the last minute the guy behind the counter realized that it was not the correct 2.8, it would work but it was not the correct internals (cam/pistons) and was the smaller valve heads. The local company that did the work took about two weeks longer than projected due to receiving the wrong parts and having to round up the correct components to remanufacture the engine to the correct specs.
I was not looking for a long block to start with anyway, but thats what a lot of companies wanted to sell me. The heads I had on hand cost $200 for the machine work, even these were a hassle. The company that did them originally sent me out the door with a set they had on hand, when I got them home I realized the valves looked smaller than I remembered. They had given me the standard 2.8 heads rather than the H.O. 2.8/3.4 heads, they corrected the problem by rebuilding my original cores.
The cost ended up a little over $860 for the rotating assembly and heads.

Delivered to my driveway with all the old parts for inspection.

With the heads installed.

There were additional items that would probably be needed even with a swap but I tried to find a 3.4 for close to the same cost and just could not find one anywhere near that cost. The company that did my 2.8 had about a $200 jump in price with the 3.4 and did not have a core they could remanufacture so I would have had to find that in addition to the remanufacturing cost.

If money is not an issue I would suggest at the least a 3.4 camaro/bird shortblock and preferably a 3800SC but that starts getting into personal preferences.

If money is an issue and you are looking for a dependable affordable solution then a remanufactured 2.8 is not a bad solution.

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Don't take life too seriously -- you'll never get out if it alive.

[This message has been edited by DRA (edited 05-16-2007).]

A reman short block for under $700? Where do you shop? I went with the jasper rebuild when I did mine. If you have never rebuilt an engine before, dont learn on your daily driver! People who do that for a living still make mistakes from time to time. Professionally done with a warrenty is the way to go if you have little experience. When it happens to me again though I am doing the 3.4 block swap, but then again this is NOT my daily driver. The jasper block was, and It was an awesome motor.

reman short block= good and quick
swap= longer time, faster car

A little update, I replaced the battery and tried to start it and it started. Ran it for about 30 seconds. Sounded pretty smooth though I did here a little rattle, might be the bad water pump. There was a little smoke also comming from the engine. Going to put a new one in this week and see what happens.

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Chuck
86 GT
07 Solstice GXP

Overheated blocks suck ,used engine is way to go cheap (my way) if engine is out you need to lap in valves and replace valve guide lifters,if engine in doner car runs good and there is little smoke clean up head and drop it in .i have rebuilt many motorcycles with excellent results by redo on head I also sand cylinders using sandpaper to bring back crosshatch pattern in cylinder,and remove some of the bottom at the top of the cylinder LIP,this is the unworn part of the cylinder that the rings did not touch make tight round object to place in bottom of cylindersome grease around edge to stop grit from going into engine bottom ,clean sanded area with brake cleaner on rag then wipe VERY clean with light oil on clean rag.if in doubt about this don,t do but i have salvaged many engines like this ..alternative spend small fortune .. engines last a long time it is other problem that destroy fiero fun ,clutch, fires,overheating, clutch, sensors,ebrake,cables ,heat destroy coils ,clutch did I mention clutch

I have installed probably 50 Jasper engines and tranny's. I have had one go bad and I had another engine the next day no charge. 3 Years 75K mile warranty, and they stand behind it. I have installed engines from MANY different other rebuilders, and they DO NOT stand behind their product. They will void the warrantee for so much as 500 mi. over an oil change. I got to visit the Jasper plant a few years back, and they do EVERYTHING BETTER than OEM. The warrantee is only as good as the people who stand behind it. If you want a different cam or something different BTW, they will build it to spec, as long as it is not too crazy. One thing I found out while touring the plants is that if they find a weak part, they not only replace it, but redsign it and make it BETTER than OEM. It makes sense, they don't want to have to replace a bad design. For example, the Ford tranny in the Explorer had 22 mods done to it. They Dyno test EVERYTHING they sell also. If you put the motor in in NY and it blows in CA, they will pay for labor and replace the component. You are only left with fluids to pay for. If it wasn't for the fact that I am building an EXTREME DUKE, I would definitely spring for one!

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carpe diem

quote Originally posted by paultiac135: A reman short block for under $700? Where do you shop? I went with the jasper rebuild when I did mine. If you have never rebuilt an engine before, dont learn on your daily driver! People who do that for a living still make mistakes from time to time. Professionally done with a warrenty is the way to go if you have little experience. When it happens to me again though I am doing the 3.4 block swap, but then again this is NOT my daily driver. The jasper block was, and It was an awesome motor. reman short block= good and quick swap= longer time, faster car

I'm assuming that the question of "A reman short block for under $700? Where do you shop?" was directed to me.
I had my shortblock remanufactured by Carolina Machine Engines, http://www.cmengines.com/ , I did a good bit of research and it seemed like the best option for me. They have been around for over 40 years and being close enough to drop off the block, about a 40 minute drive, and the fact that they delivered the finished product to my driveway, was a big factor. I felt more comfortable knowing I was close enough to raise some heck if things went south. I got a lot of mixed reviews on their work, but the consensus seemed to be positive as far as warranty and service after the sale went. So far I have no complaints but have not really put many miles on the car since everything went back together, a trip to Atlanta shortly after we finished and whatever I've put on it locally, maybe 1000 miles.

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Dealing with failure is easy: work hard to improve. Success is also easy to handle: you've solved the wrong problem, work hard to improve.

Rebuilding standards can vary widely and also depend on application. After blowing up 4 stock 2.8s in the race car I went full out on a fully bored, balanced, blueprinted and (measured and corrected) everything else like line bore, cap seats, rod end size etc. Even a brand new "balanced" flywheel was way out of acceptable balance range for my application. I have about $1100 in labor (race machine shop) alone on the shortblock but the tolerance is WAY better than an OE or standard rebuild. Also "unknown" factors like having to sleeve a block for a casting problem is not uncommon and adds to the cost. This engine would way outlast a stock build under normal street use.

Installing new rings and bearings is just that, it is far from a rebuild by many standards. For a street car I would get an over the counter rebuilt engine like from Jasper, that offers some level of warranty which reflects their level of confidence in their work.

As for rebuilding engines, we've been there done that and you can certainly build a quality engine with enough careful labor, parts and cost. However, with todays machine shop prices and the cost of parts, we find it advantageous to buy new crate engines or low mileage salvage yard engines. You'll save money and lots of time going this route. IMO the crate engine is the way to go and if you want more horsepower just throw in a cam/kit, a set of headers, MSD ignition and if necessary add some boost or nitrous.

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87GT 3.4 Turbo- 0-60 5.2 seconds
2006 3800SC Series III swap in progress
Engine Controls, PCM goodies,
re-programming & odd electronics stuff
" I'M ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "