Well I've always wanted a true Pontiac motor in my Fiero ('86 GT 4spd), but the Pontiac engines are just so heavy. My uncle has a 400 sitting in his garage (which was swapped out of his Le Mans convertible), but I don't think he'll let me have it because he plans on putting it back in said Le Mans. Anyway even if he did give it to me, it's such a heavy motor compared to newer motors (and I would really like to keep my handling)

So while reading the...(well I'm not really sure which issue it is. it says May 2007, but it also says "Display until 03/20/2007) Issue of High Performance Pontiac, i ran across the 4th gen Firebird with classic Pontiac Power. They started with a 455, which got me interested, but then they decided on a lighter engine combo. They wanted the 303 short-deck but it's very rare and uses a lot of specialized parts? So they decided on the 301. For those of you who havn't read the article, I'll throw out a couple of the mods.

-Started with an '80 turbo 301 with 4.0 inch bore and 3.0 inch stroke (.030 overbore to give 359ci displacement)
-a 400 crank
2.25 inch rod journals reduced to 2 inches
destroked from 3.75 to 3.52 inches
counterweights turned down 5/8 inch
then balanced
-Scat 6 inch SBC Eagle I-beam rods
2 inch rod journals
-ARP rod bolts
-Clevite 77 bearings
-KB Hypereutectic .030 over 237 SBC pistons
.125 inch raised domes
sealed power rings
-Edelbrock 72cc aluminum heads
3 angle valve job
-10:0:1 compression
-Comp Cams Xtreme Energy hydraulic XE 274 camshaft
230/236 degrees duration at .050
.537/.540 lift Crane 1.65-ratio roller rocker arms
-Custom Intake
-Ford SVO 30lbs injectors
-Granatelli 255-lph in-tank fuel pump
-Mallory fuel-pressure regulator
-BBK 58mm throttle body
-Flow Kooler water pump
-180 degree thermostat
-RARE round-port, long-branch exhaust manifolds for '69 Birds
-and a PCMforless.com custom tune
about 300 rwhp and 340 lb-ft of torque

just to name a bunch of stuff i really don't know much about.

My main question here is, would this type of engine build be reasonable for a Fiero. Sure it might be cheaper/easier to use an SBC, but a Pontiac engine just seems more unique and interesting. I assume there'll need to be a custom plate to adapt a manual transmission(or any for that matter), and then the motor mounts. Is this engine similar enough to an SBC to use any parts from Archie's kit?

I was also thinking about using a Ram Air style intake (but put the snorkels up the sides of the sail panels)

I'm really not ready to do a swap yet (college student) but I love planning out what I want to do when I get the money. So any ideas regarding this engine(including any transmissions) in a Fiero would be much appreciated

quote Originally posted by KaijuSenso: Well I've always wanted a true Pontiac motor in my Fiero...

Technically the Iron Duke was the last true Pontiac motor, and putig it in a Fiero wouldn't be difficult at all

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1984 Fiero SE

yes yes >_< I'm talking about an Pontiac V8 of course

[This message has been edited by KaijuSenso (edited 04-13-2007).]

You'll probably need to go to a dedicated pontiac forum to get most of the information you are seeking. If it is considerably heavier than the SBC you will have a noticeable change in handling, tail wagging the dog sensation. That could be problematic in wet weather and sharp turns. I believe that's what happened to Eddie Griffin from the clip I saw of him wrecking that Ferrari aside from going to fast for the turn. The front of the car seemed as if it was being pushed side ways against its will until the cement barracade was hit. I managed to do that with the 2.8 by accident on a dirt road at low speed that's how I was made aware of it and although I liked the sound and straight line acceleration of the V8 in the Fiero I didn't like the throw you through the windshield on deceleration and downshifting feel and part of that was due to the solid mounting.

[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 04-13-2007).]

I understand the desire to put a pure Pontiac engine in a Pontiac as I remember a time before corporate engines too but I also remember driving this engine in the 80 TA's and the lag time on the turbo was terrible and it was a carburated engine that did use an ecm with an electro-mechanical carburator. I was not a fan of it compared to the 400 and the 403 that came in the 79 TA's but that was a car that weighed in at close to 3500-3700 lbs.

The interesting thing is that the 301 block dates back to 1955 if I remember my history correctly as PMD used that same basic block for every V8 they built till the last 301. There were no big or small block Pontiac engines like Chevy. You either bored it or stroked it to get all the way up to a 455.

Pretty cost effective and forward thinking for back then of course we did not worry much about added weight back then so leaving some extra meat in a block was not a big deal.

A turbo routing on this engine might be a problem not sure but the added heat with a carbed engine???

My vote would be a series 2 SC 3800 which would run circles around this and be more fun and serviceable in the long run.

quote Originally posted by Mike Murphy: The interesting thing is that the 301 block dates back to 1955 if I remember my history correctly as PMD used that same basic block for every V8 they built till the last 301. There were no big or small block Pontiac engines like Chevy. You either bored it or stroked it to get all the way up to a 455.

Actually the 301 is a "short decked" block. It is not the same as other Pontiac V-8's. They basically took a standard block and shaved it down to the shorter stroke. It was the 326, 350, 389, 400, 428, and 455 blocks that were basically the same. The 265 and 301 were different and had very few interchangeable parts.

The only problem with using one in a Fiero is there would need to be a lot of custom parts. There are not many aftermarket parts for the 301.
As for weight, The 301 didn't weigh anymore than the Chevy 305 or the Ford 302 back then. Too bad nobody makes an aluminum head for the 301.

Size wise it should fit and would be an interesting swap.
If you need any info on the 301, I do have the 1980 Pontiac service manual which covers the 301 and the 301 turbo engines.

Thanks for the clarification Oreif but even though it was shaved and the internals were not the same as the others it was still the same basic block as the others and not a different casting. That was my only point of interest when I referenced my earlier post and did not mean to impart that they were identical as the 326, 350 etc.