I have an 85 2m4 and 5 speed. I put a 3800 series two in the car and used the 3800 Camaro flywheel cut down to fit. I think I got a clutch for a 2.8.
I am using the original 85 2m4 clutch master and slave. I dented the cross over exhaust to where the clutch lever will not hit it and the clutch still will not dis-engage. Does the 2.8 system have more stroke? It is stroking about an inch maybe slightly more. I am sure all the air is out of the system and I put a spacer between the slave rod and clutch arm to take up any slack from the worn plastic socket. Still nothing!

Any Ideas? Do I need a different slave and master for more stroke?

I overtorqued the flywheel bolts on my 2.8 the first time that I replaced my clutch. So I pulled it back apart and redid the entire thing... still wouldn't disengage. I got into the 3rd pull apart when I realized that maybe it had nothing to do with the clutch itself but the line.

Even though you think the air is out of the system, it takes a full vaccum for the fluid to compress the arm enough to disengage. Is the arm moving the full 2-3 inches when you press the clutch pedal? I don't understand why you're having to use any spacer what so ever unless its that worn. Try a new slave and make sure the line is trully bled.

I do have a new slave on there that I got today. The other one, the bleeder twisted off.

I went out and measured it and at the rod it travels exactly 1 inch on the stroke. It moves from the time you start to push on the pedal until you stop. There are no dead spots and the pedal has pressure against it. Could the master be bad?

[This message has been edited by allsho80 (edited 01-05-2007).]

umm, the stock fiero slave only moves at best 1.5" if everything is absolutely perfect. you might get 1.75 if you use the smaller isuzu slave.
the question here is this, moving the arm the fork is on, how much movement does it take to feel the throwout bearing hit the pressure plate? after that point, there should only be a need for 1" travel for the clutch to disengage. if the slave needs to move 1" just to get to that point, you won;t have much if anything left for release. this sounds like there is a setup problem, or the wrong throwout bearing, or the whole clutch assembly is too far away. are you sure the adapter for the flywheel and such is the correct one?

quote Originally posted by allsho80: I do have a new slave on there that I got today. The other one, the bleeder twisted off. I went out and measured it and at the rod it travels exactly 1 inch on the stroke. It moves from the time you start to push on the pedal until you stop. There are no dead spots and the pedal has pressure against it. Could the master be bad?

Are you sure you didnt get a 4spd slave by mistake?? there is a difference.. the piston in the 5 spd slave is set further down the tube.

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'86 Fastback SE 5 spd -'00 HD 1200XL Sportster -'99 Chevy K-1500 Z-71

There should be a NOTICABLE movement when disengaging. Once the arm starts moving you want to see it move a good bit, enough that you can say for sure that thing is disengaged. With a new clutch your car is most likely not going to let go until the end of the throw, so it has to go that far.

Yes it can very well be the master is slightly leaking. The whole system is problematic, one of the touche'est things on a Fiero.

First thing I would do if I were looking for leaks would be to loosen and re tighten all the fittings from where the line goes into the master to the slave, make sure every thing's tight. If it still will not push the arm with a really good gravity bleed / vacuum bleed, then you can start looking into non properly functioning parts, maybe invest in a new master. You should not have a space between the rod and the arm on the clutch and slave, it should snuggly fit, wrong slave as mentioned before?

I saw on another thread about the clutch pedal may be bent. Could that play a part? I have had this car since about 1991 and about 20,000 miles ago, It just out of the blue wouldn't dis-engage so I was checking it out and the rod seemed like it wasn't coming out very far so, I cut a new slave rod thats a little longer and it always worked after that. Could the pedal have been bent from clear back then. I never have really had alot of clutch, at best the reverse always would grind.

TJM....I didn't use any adaptors for the flywheel, It was a stock style clutch on a Camaro flywheel.

Kyote....I ordered the 5 speed slave from Carquest...How can I tell? The original slave was made out of steel and this new one is cast. That is the only visiual differance.

Does anyone know what the Isuzue slave is off of so, I know what to ask for?

As soon as I get out in about, I will check the clutch pedal...Thanks for all the help so far :-)

Alan Miller
(Allsho80)

The clutch pedal bending has been a big topic. I've never had any trouble with that but thats not to say that its not. The clutch pedal should rest at an angle higher than the brake pedal, so if you look down there and its sitting lower than the brake that may be it.

I don't have to re state how difficult it can be to get the clutch line completely bled.

Good luck with fixing it though!

quote Originally posted by allsho80: I do have a new slave on there that I got today. The other one, the bleeder twisted off. I went out and measured it and at the rod it travels exactly 1 inch on the stroke. It moves from the time you start to push on the pedal until you stop. There are no dead spots and the pedal has pressure against it. Could the master be bad?

Im replacing mine today for the same reason.. it came right off the body.. Made a simple bleed an expensive project.

Do you happen to remember what sized wrench you used on the hydraulic line?

quote Originally posted by User00013170: Im replacing mine today for the same reason.. it came right off the body.. Made a simple bleed an expensive project. Do you happen to remember what sized wrench you used on the hydraulic line?

I beleave the line was 14mm and the bleadrer was 1/2"

Well the pedal isn't the issue. It goes all the way till it bottoms out on the bracket under the dash and still has about 1" at the floor. I pulled the master out of the car and took it apart. The o-ring at the very end of the rod is looking ate up. Maybe it is bleeding back in the reservor. Everyon has to order the rebuild kit so now I'm done for about 7 days.

(((((((((( Is there a master cylinder that has a bigger bore? More fluid! )))))))))

The slave is aftermarket and appears to be 7/8" bore and the original measures 13/16" so 1/16" larger diameter.

quote Originally posted by allsho80: I beleave the line was 14mm and the bleadrer was 1/2" Well the pedal isn't the issue. It goes all the way till it bottoms out on the bracket under the dash and still has about 1" at the floor. I pulled the master out of the car and took it apart. The o-ring at the very end of the rod is looking ate up. Maybe it is bleeding back in the reservor. Everyon has to order the rebuild kit so now I'm done for about 7 days. (((((((((( Is there a master cylinder that has a bigger bore? More fluid! ))))))))) The slave is aftermarket and appears to be 7/8" bore and the original measures 13/16" so 1/16" larger diameter.

ya its 14mm i went ahead and drove down and got one. Figured worst case id need it someday...

The bleeder is 13mm ( at least for the new one )

Ok...update!

Made my own orings for the master so, I wouldn't have to wait. Made a longer Rod so there is no free play. Welded and remilled the master rod so there is no play in the pedal.
Now my system is as tight as could be, the clutch lever should be up against the throw out bearing and I go 1" of stroke that is truely throw out bearing.

Still nothing, but what about this. The car sat for 1.5 yrs after I got it all put togeather (account Wire harness guys but that is another story) and a mechanic friend of mine says that the cluth (which was new) and the flywheel (newly machined) will stick togeather after a long period of time from condensation and such.

Could that be it????

I've heard of that happening too, but I've never actually seen it.
usually you can break it free driving it, something like start and wamr the car in neutral, shut off, put in a gear,start car with clutch in, car should roll, keep the clutch in and blip the gas, the hit the brakes a few times. if that doesn't do it, you will likely have to pull the clutch to confirm wtf is going on in there.,..

i would think that if that is the case, you could leave it in neutral, push the clutch in, and rev it up. the snappier you are on the throttle, the easier it would snap the clutch loose

Several have told me that they know it can happen but have never seen it. One mechanic friend said he had seen it and the only way to get his broke apart is actually pry the plate off the flywheel with a pry bar. Hopefully that wont be the case here! Another said he had never seen it on a vehicle but it is very common on tractors.
Anyways, I have the brake calipers off right now blasting and painting them along with changing the bleeders. But, I will let everyone know how this all turns out.

Update:
Took it out and drove it. It broke loose so I started it in gear and reved it up the let out on the clutch a few times but it is still not totally dis-engaging. Drove it around for 10 min. or so useing the clutch and reving it up while pushed in. I can stop while holding the brake and in gear but won't shift or anything.

I know "you have air in the system" well I am getting about 1 1/4 inches of stoke at the slave! If it only takes 1" then the air can stay in there. I'm still getting more than most without air...lol.

Any other ideas would be greatly appriciated.

Thanks, Alan Miller (allsho80)

quote Originally posted by allsho80: Kyote....I ordered the 5 speed slave from Carquest...How can I tell? The original slave was made out of steel and this new one is cast. That is the only visiual differance. Does anyone know what the Isuzue slave is off of so, I know what to ask for? (Allsho80)

Pop off the boot..and look and see how far down the snap ring is... if its about 1 inch down the tube..you have the Isuzu slave..not sure what the Getrag slave looks like....

The Isuzu is on the 4 cyl engine...

[This message has been edited by kyote (edited 01-11-2007).]

Bad fluid.

Leak in the line.

Master or Slave leak.

Bent pedal.

...that's all I can think of right now. That's really how simple it is..

quote Originally posted by kyote: Pop off the boot..and look and see how far down the snap ring is... if its about 1 inch down the tube..you have the Isuzu slave..not sure what the Getrag slave looks like.... The Isuzu is on the 4 cyl engine...

Here are pics of the new slave and the old slave. The snapring is only about 3/16 in from the top of the bore. I assume this is not the isuzu?

Also, anyone know how much play is suppost to be in the clutch arm when slave is off? I have about 1/8" of movement on the end of the arm before it has pressure against it.

If it is anything like the transmissions I'm dealing with that is about right. I've been taking a lot of measurments trying to get mine working.

On my original 4sp I took out there is about 3/16" free play between the throw out bearing and the PP fingers.
So that would turn out to be just a little bit more at the end of the arm.

I had the same problem after my 3.1 swap. The clutch wouldnt fully disengage, so I couldnt put it in gear without shutting the car off. We bled the clutch and it still did this. We bled the clutch some more, but this time I had to pull the clutch pedal up by hand and then let it go all the way to the floor. Sounds weird but thats what did it for me. Ive replaced my aluminum pedal with a steel one too. For some reason the pedal doesnt want to come back all the way on its own- I could pull it back another inch or so with my hand. It doesnt affect how it drives, so I dont know if its normal or not.

Went today and put a hydrolic ram in against the clutch arm and pumped it up in 1/8" incerments to release the clutch. It took 1 1/2" of stroke to release the clutch to where I could move it in and out of gear.

The Fiero system doesn't have that amount of stroke to it......Does it?

Also does anyone know what slave that is in pics above?????