Hey all, long time no see! Hope everyone's projects are coming along good!

I have a question for some of you kit builders out there. If you built a chassis, how do you generally go about getting it registered? I know it must vary state to state but ball park is what I'm after. OR, how much of an original chassis must you maintain in order to register a car under the existing VIN? Thanks in advance for anyone's knowledge on this. Google and a couple emails to the DMV hasn't given up much.

In KS, VIN stays WITH THE CHASSIS.

If you're going to a tube frame, you have just graduated to a specialty constructed vehicle. Here, you have to have the Kansas Highway Patrol come and inspect it to make sure components aren't stolen and then they will assign you a VIN number. You also have the ultimate joy of gathering any and all receipts for the car and taking them to the courthouse when you want to actually register it. Remember that $950 order you got from Summit that you paid no sales tax on because they are out of state? Guess what, you get to pay it now. I know of one kit builder down at Sedgewick that got stuck with a $1,000 bill when he went to register and title his kitcar.

Now you know why I ALWAYS keep my kitcars with the Fiero VIN number. No matter what you do to them, they still cost you about $55 in taxes and tags every year.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by caddyrocket: Hey all, long time no see! Hope everyone's projects are coming along good! I have a question for some of you kit builders out there. If you built a chassis, how do you generally go about getting it registered? I know it must vary state to state but ball park is what I'm after. OR, how much of an original chassis must you maintain in order to register a car under the existing VIN? Thanks in advance for anyone's knowledge on this. Google and a couple emails to the DMV hasn't given up much.

Good info. I'm sure it's similar here in OK. The Highway Patrol part I'm not worried about but it sounds like a PITA overall. I've read somewhere the only piece you must retain to ensure the car is legal is the firewall but, as with all things, I'm sure that is best case and varies. When you referred to building your kit car, you mean using pretty much stock chassis with minor modifications such as a frame stretch (minor being a relative term here obviously).

A guy at work here in NC built a street legal sand rail. Used a 66 VW engine/axle. Everything else was built from scratch. It was registered as a 66 VW. As a result he did not need wipers, fenders, etc nor an emmissions check. Heck, he did not even need his tag displayed, it is legal here on really old cars to have a plate with just the year of the car on it !
Not that that helps you any though !

------------------
Dave E

www.ltlfrari.com

Getting you a vin is the least of your worries. Getting it insured is usually where people run into problems.

I've heard horror stories from people in lambo land trying to get their replica chassis insured and they end up giving up on it. And go back to Fiero based.

But mostly just build the chassis get it inspected get your vin, But if I were you I wouldn't turn in all my receipts. How do they know what you have in the car. For all they know you are some kind of electrical engineer slash fabricator, and made your own parts from scratch for pennies.

I've also seen people cut up their fieros for scrap and keep the vin and just rivet it to the sill plate and register it as a fiero. Of course I'm not sure of the legality if that though.

quote Originally posted by fieroluv: Getting you a vin is the least of your worries. Getting it insured is usually where people run into problems. I've heard horror stories from people in lambo land trying to get their replica chassis insured and they end up giving up on it. And go back to Fiero based. But mostly just build the chassis get it inspected get your vin, But if I were you I wouldn't turn in all my receipts. How do they know what you have in the car. For all they know you are some kind of electrical engineer slash fabricator, and made your own parts from scratch for pennies. I've also seen people cut up their fieros for scrap and keep the vin and just rivet it to the sill plate and register it as a fiero. Of course I'm not sure of the legality if that though.

That's kind of the direction I was hoping for. The drag guys backhalf, fronthalf, roll cage, twist turn and mod chassis to hell and back and keep them registered as the original with fiberglass bodies, different interiors, etc. I'm kind of looking for how much of the original car has to remain to still use that vin. If it's as simple as keep x part, I'll just integrate that into what I'm doing and go forward!

I'll keep looking and hope some more of you guys will throw up your stories!

Thanks!

I'd hate to see what the insurance company would do when you make a claim on the "Fiero" that they thought you were driving. I'm pretty sure they will try to screw you over real hard then.

In KS, the VIN tags must be the ones supplied with the chassis and they may not be moved from the manufacturer's location. I was chastised for removing mine, powdercoating it, and then replacing it in the stock location...........but it didn't stop them from issuing me a return to service title. There are at least two on the Fiero, the top of the dash below the windshield and one on the crossmember that you can see if you pull the driver's dash speaker and look in there with a flashlight. Rumor has it that there is a third one on the chassis somewhere (around the front crossmember somewhere???) but I've never found one. Maybe someone else has found the third VIN tag.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by caddyrocket: Good info. I'm sure it's similar here in OK. The Highway Patrol part I'm not worried about but it sounds like a PITA overall. I've read somewhere the only piece you must retain to ensure the car is legal is the firewall but, as with all things, I'm sure that is best case and varies. When you referred to building your kit car, you mean using pretty much stock chassis with minor modifications such as a frame stretch (minor being a relative term here obviously).

quote Originally posted by el_roy1985: I'd hate to see what the insurance company would do when you make a claim on the "Fiero" that they thought you were driving. I'm pretty sure they will try to screw you over real hard then.

Insurance on any custom built car is easy through Grundy (& a couple others). As long as you don't use it for work transportation & keep it garaged, they let you tell them the value & they agree to it (they need pics, too).
As for registering, only your local DMV can answer that. Be careful to be clear with them: in some places if you build a tube frame (or any custom-built machine not using the original frame) it's registered as a NEW vehicle, & is subject to all the inspections, pollution controls, & taxes any new car would be.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

America - made in China! :-(

[This message has been edited by Tha Driver (edited 11-21-2006).]

I've never heard that before because the inspections, pollution controls, etc., only apply to ORIGINAL EQUIMPMENT MANUFACTURERS. This would be a specialty constructed vehicle.

California is pretty anal about pollution stuff, but most places make allowances for "one-off" constructions. The only way to know for sure is to do what you said and call DMV. I've just never heard of anywhere requiring a one-off construction to comply with OEM new vehicle standards.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by Tha Driver: Insurance on any custom built car is easy through Grundy (& a couple others). As long as you don't use it for work transportation & keep it garaged, they let you tell them the value & they agree to it (they need pics, too). As for registering, only your local DMV can answer that. Be careful to be clear with them: in some places if you build a tube frame (or any custom-built machine not using the original frame) it's registered as a NEW vehicle, & is subject to all the inspections, pollution controls, & taxes any new car would be. ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver" America - made in China! :-(

Well I found this little gem last night whilst searching around. I still need to talk to an insurance company and such to see if it's worth while. I don't want to spend 4 grand a year on insurance either. Guess we'll see how it all shakes out. I'll throw up some more details as I find them. Anyone else with experience, please feel free to chime in!


http://www.dmv.org/ok-oklahoma/custom-built-cars.php

When your done you can help us update this site. Your state is not filled out yet.
http://crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/How_to_title_a_hot_rod

Good luck

[This message has been edited by Jake_Dragon (edited 11-21-2006).]

quote Originally posted by caddyrocket: Well I found this little gem last night whilst searching around. I still need to talk to an insurance company and such to see if it's worth while. I don't want to spend 4 grand a year on insurance either. Guess we'll see how it all shakes out. I'll throw up some more details as I find them. Anyone else with experience, please feel free to chime in! http://www.dmv.org/ok-oklahoma/custom-built-cars.php

Looks like they'll allow you to use the original VIN from your donor car. If so I would rivet the dash VIN plate to the dash (if not using the original dash), & stamp the number somewhere on the tube frame where it's eaisly readable. But ASK THEM before doing so.
Grundy: $30 per year for $300,000 liability; around $15 per $1,000 of vehicle value for Collision & comprehensive. Comes to $330 PER YEAR for a $20,000 car - FULL COVERAGE NO DEDUCTABLE.
jstricker: Yeah the guy was QUITE SURPRISED when they registered his '30s hot rod as a 2006 - subject to all those regulations!!! Don't recall what state it was.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

The United States is the only industrialized nation to *outlaw* hemp production.

I doubt OK will let him do that. KS and OK follow each other on the DMV side pretty closely from what I understand from my friends down south. From the website posted:

quote Your vehicle registration number will be based on the vehicle identification number (VIN) located on the body of the vehicle (body VIN). If the vehicle has a custom body without a body VIN, a VIN will be issued by the OTC. This number must then be die stamped onto the door plate on the vehicle.

In KS, that means that the plates can't be MOVED from their location and since he's not using the chassis, his will have no plates. KS has terms similar to OK in their law but on the Finale body kits they let me register it as a Fiero because I'm using the chassis and not moving the VIN plates from stock location.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by Tha Driver: Looks like they'll allow you to use the original VIN from your donor car. If so I would rivet the dash VIN plate to the dash (if not using the original dash), & stamp the number somewhere on the tube frame where it's eaisly readable. But ASK THEM before doing so. Grundy: $30 per year for $300,000 liability; around $15 per $1,000 of vehicle value for Collision & comprehensive. Comes to $330 PER YEAR for a $20,000 car - FULL COVERAGE NO DEDUCTABLE. jstricker: Yeah the guy was QUITE SURPRISED when they registered his '30s hot rod as a 2006 - subject to all those regulations!!! Don't recall what state it was. ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver" The United States is the only industrialized nation to *outlaw* hemp production.

quote Originally posted by jstricker: I doubt OK will let him do that. KS and OK follow each other on the DMV side pretty closely from what I understand from my friends down south. From the website posted: (snip)

Thus the reason I said to ASK THEM. If he's using the original dash, it will have the VIN attached. In either event folks can speculate all they want, but *only* the DMV can tell you what to do in your state. ASK THEM & do so BEFORE you do anything.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Remember 1/2 of the population is below average.

True on all counts. The Highway Patrol inspection is no problem. I have a friend on the "inside" who can help me through the process.

If it's just PITA paperwork after that, then I'm not terribly worried. Driver, thanks for those quotes. If they prove to be even remotely ballpark, I might take this project from tire kicking to the real deal. Since everything will be hand fabricated, about the only parts recognizable from another car might be the engine, transaxle, and odds and ends. Maybe few years and 140 pages of build thread from now, I'll post up and tell ya how it was to tag and insure it.

Again to everyone, thanks again for the help and if there is any other info, shoot it up here in case someone else stumbles through a search for it!

quote Originally posted by Tha Driver: Thus the reason I said to ASK THEM. If he's using the original dash, it will have the VIN attached. .

Actually the VIN is attached to the cowl and not the dash.

Texas is not so anal about VINs. I have yet to have the Motor Vehicles or my insurance agent ask to see the VIN. The only time it is an issue is when it's inspected and the only issue is that they are annoyed there is no bar code and they have to write down all 17 numbers manually.

I registered the car as a Fiero originally in New York. I researched NY regulations and found that it should be registered as a specialty vehicle if chassis wheelbase is altered(stretched).You also have to find a registered tech. inspection station to have vehicle inspected. I started to go through the motions only to get discouraged and PISSED.That was 11 years ago. Today the car is still registered as a Fiero.I have had tickets,been pulled over etc. No problem with the police, although they all asked 1,000 questions.I have specialty car insurance and they have a listing for just such vehicles.They require pictures as well as the usual criteria about when/where yo can drive. I found it best to let things be as they are. They make it so difficult to reg. as a specialty vehicle, that I gave up.(The most annoying things are the lack of help/info you get from the MVD employees)
If I were to do a custom chassis kit, I would buy a junk donor(Fiero VW Pinto) just to get a title, then use its VIN. So much easier.
edit: I found a VIN plate on both the dash and on the cowl . Both looked similar, and I placed the 2nd VIN on the inner fenderwell of my kit.

[This message has been edited by Lambojf (edited 01-16-2007).]

When I built a tube-frame car in Texas (and registered it in Florida - long story), I had to have a Peace Officer verify that there was no VIN on the chassis. None of them - local police, state police, sheriff, highway patrol - wanted to do it, but eventually, I got a Constable to do it. I also needed to show sales receipts for the materials, and I needed to get a weight certificate for the car (from the local moving company.) The car was registered as a Specially Constructed Vehicle, and issued a VIN by the state.

quote Originally posted by Lambojf: edit: I found a VIN plate on both the dash and on the cowl . Both looked similar, and I placed the 2nd VIN on the inner fenderwell of my kit.

That second VIN is not on the dash but attached to structure underneath the dash. It is directly under the speaker hole on the driver's side, (you can see it by removing the speaker and looking through that hole.) There is no VIN on the acual dash.

quote Originally posted by jstricker: In KS, the VIN tags must be the ones supplied with the chassis and they may not be moved from the manufacturer's location. I was chastised for removing mine, powdercoating it, and then replacing it in the stock location...........but it didn't stop them from issuing me a return to service title. There are at least two on the Fiero, the top of the dash below the windshield and one on the crossmember that you can see if you pull the driver's dash speaker and look in there with a flashlight. Rumor has it that there is a third one on the chassis somewhere (around the front crossmember somewhere???) but I've never found one. Maybe someone else has found the third VIN tag. John Stricker

You know, John. My 88 has stickers with the full VIN on it on each panel of the car. Not just the window and under the dash. Oh, the headlight doors don't have them either. That's how I know I have a hood from another Fiero, different VIN on it.

quote Originally posted by jscott1: That second VIN is not on the dash but attached to structure underneath the dash. It is directly under the speaker hole on the driver's side, (you can see it by removing the speaker and looking through that hole.) There is no VIN on the acual dash.

At the lower left of the windshield I have a metal tag with the VIN # on it ,on my 86 gt . It is visible thru the widshield mounted fromt the dash just below where NY registration is displayed. When I built my Lambo kit, I cut the entire cowl off as the Lambo body has to sit way lower than the Fiero. When doing that I found a 2nd VIN plate attached to the cowl. No way I couldve ever seen it unless I was deep inside the cowl with dash removed. My 85 4 cyl. had both as well. Whether they are what you are calling VIN's or not I am not sure of, but on both my cars , there is a VIN plate on the dash and one in the lower cowl area.(it is not physically attached to the dash itself, but is in the dash area..if thats what you meant.It is attached to the actual steel under dash.. after re reading your post ... now I see what you mean.

[This message has been edited by Lambojf (edited 01-17-2007).]

As Long as you can sign a build guide/bill of sale and go before a judge and attest the car is not built of stolen parts you can title it as whatever you want it to be as long as its within reason... I too ive in Oklahoma and just went through this on a classic mercedes turbo build and had to pay 100$ to a vehicular division judge and give an estimate of costs assosciated with the build/restoration/whatever just say 1000$ anything lower throws up flags...

and *POOF* they'll send you the title and you go register it at the tag office... I have been through this several times and can help you if need be... I live in Choctaw, OK just so you know... and you can ask me for help if you need it.. I would also like to see the project when it gets rolling if your not too far away... and I work for a sheetmetal union and can maybe help you get what you need for it at discount as well....

chris

cptn_howdy1@yahoo.com