I was looking for that article about the LS1 Fiero on Hot Rod's website and found a article that says (at the bottom) that Famous Hot Rod builder Smokey Yunick had a Fiero.
http://www.hotrod.com/thehistoryof/98558/index.html

Did some searching on Google and found more about Smokey's Hot Vapor Cycle Engine. One of the cars he converted was a Fiero (An Iron Duke).
http://www.schou.dk/hvce/

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87 notchback 4.9L
Custom LED Notchback Tail Lights

quote Originally posted by fourpoint9: Did some searching on Google and found more about Smokey's Hot Vapor Cycle Engine. One of the cars he converted was a Fiero (An Iron Duke). http://www.schou.dk/hvce/

Wow, I've never heard so much hot gas in my life before reading that nonsens! The number of wachos that claim to have such working engines is astounding.

quote Originally posted by cyrus88: Wow, I've never heard so much hot gas in my life before reading that nonsens! The number of wachos that claim to have such working engines is astounding.

Yeah, there is always some snake oil salesman around the next corner. The principal of fuel vaporization is real. And increased power and fuel economy can be made...at a price. But the claims Smokey made all his life are just plain ridiculous.

so what this is bogus? If it wern't though I would be out looking for a good 2m4 for my next car. I like the idea of alternative fules that keep engine mechanics the same or similar. Is there any other info about the Hot Vapor or somebody developing systems like this?

Actually, Smokey used to be the "mechanic" for Popular Mechanics in the late seventies and through the eighties(if my memory serves me right). He used to contribute a monthly column. So, for his era, he was indeed a very respected figure. As for the hot air engine, I can still remember following it's progress. Of course, if you don't remember the gas crisis of 1973 and the next one in 1979, then you might think of Smokey as indeed being some sort of "snake oil salesman." If I remember correctly, pre-ignition was the main issue with his engine(I know you're thinking "Duh!").

Smokey Yunick was one of the most respected Nascar Mechanics in his day. The factories sought his advice. I believed in the engine then as now. Not neccessarily the longevity of it though. Mark Klein

Car and Driver had an article on this at some point. There is some speculation that the fuel economy was produced by the vapor carb, and the power was produced by some sort of bypass, and some good old nascar engine building tricks. If I recall correctly.

If you read further, Smokey talks about a "homoginizer". This was suppose to mix the air fuel better for vaporization and the key to the engines power. Well it was the key to the power, as it was just a turbo and the numbers he was getting out of the engine were similar to a turbo 2.5. The vapor engines were around long before Smokey Yunick. Problem was they were Dangerous the fuel vapor outside of the combustion chamber has the potential of a bomb. Smokey once built a 7/8 size car to race at NASCAR. He got caught and was DQ'ed.

[This message has been edited by Fiero STS (edited 01-30-2006).]

Smokey wrote a whole book on how to get around racing regulations. People liked to call him a cheater, he just knew his way around the rules. He also wasn't the only one to bend the rules. The way he qualified his 7/8th scale car was to "borrow" the official templates and he returned the 7/8th ones in their place which looked exactly the same.

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 01-30-2006).]

Smokey Yunic did a lot of the developemental work on the early 3.8 Buick V6 used by Buick when they got into racing. Somewhere in my cluttered workshop is a high performance parts book that contains many of the specs and procedures he developed working in conjunction with Buick engineers, including a full build of a naturally aspirated 3.8 putting out in excess of 300 hp. You may think he was a smoke and mirrors guy but Buick thought enough of him to base a racing campaign on his expertise.

It makes sense to me the the turbo/homoginizer might have been the reason for large power gains but working around gasoline is something I'm interested in.

quote Originally posted by avengador1: Smokey wrote a whole book on how to get around racing regulations. People liked to call him a cheater, he just knew his way around the rules. He also wasn't the only one to bend the rules. The way he qualified his 7/8th scale car was to "borrow" the official templates and he returned the 7/8th ones in their place which looked exactly the same.

Actually, he didn't borrow the template...he built two 7/8 scale cars, one the racer and the other a stocker, which he parked in the pits. When the template didn't fit his car, he told the tech guys to see if they fit the stock one..of course, they didn't !

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86 Fiero SE, soon to be a V8 Fastback
87 Trans Am 455 Project
97 Camaro SS #359 (daily driver)

Sorry to highjack your thread, BUT if anyone is interested in this complete story, go to ebay type in item # 8038359069 if you would like to own that or any other fiero magazines that are on there now. Don't forget Feb 26 and all the Rare Fiero stuff being listed!

Been talking to the man who has the hot vapor Fiero engine this weekend. He has all of Smokey's papers on the engine and is planning to put a Fiero together. He's trying to go back the way Smokey did, in an 84 Fiero. Right now he's looking for a good 84 body with a manual transmission. The car doesn't need a transmission or engine. He just wants one equipped for a manual so he doesn't have to do the conversion from automatic.

He's trying to get it ready for the Daytona show. If any of you have or know of a streetable 84 within reasonable distance of Nashville, Tn., let me know. Remember, it doesn't need a power train. I don't want to give his name until I check with him, but when I talk with him today, I'll find out if he wants it made public.

He also indicated that he has most of Smokey's prototype parts that he tested, along with their notes related to the many other projects he played with. This man's a family friend of the Yunicks and got all of the old tech notes and parts.

Excellent, Charlie!

Another first hand account I read about Smokey's Fiero (I think in Car and Driver) said that it went like hell, but that it also pinged like hell. (As somebody already said, "Duh!")
I think it fragged itself before they could get more than a few minutes of testing.

He said he had Smokey's actual engine. So, maybe it didn't come apart after all, or maybe that wasn't the only one built.

One thing for sure, I wouldn't want to be around superheated and compressed fuel when a fuel line starts to leak.

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Competition Yellow 84 2.5 Bone stock right down to electrical gremlins

I seem to recall Smokey once put a reverse cam, etc in a Hudson Hornet flathead 6 and flipped the rear diff.. The idea was that the engine torque was to the left instead of right to assist in cornering. In the days of few rules, he didn't break rules, he just bent them.

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'87 GT, daily driver
'78 Toyota longbed, parts runner
'84 F250 Xcab, BIG parts runner
'87 30' Kit Classic TT, living in it.

Just got an email from the gentleman who has the Hot Vapor engine. He's given some additional information for any who wishes to check it out. Below, in part, is his email.

.....I do have the actual engine and I appreciate your defense on the Fiero site. Refer the naysayers to the June 1984 Hot Rod magazine ( a 7 page article) praising the Smokey Fiero. ALso have them go to the Gale Banks web site and search Hot Vapor..I will not make the Daytona March show due to my ISCA committments with the Wagon but I do intend to have the car on the Hot Rod Power Tour. .....

The latest information on the Hot Vapor Engine is that Horsepower TV on the Spike Channel has filmed a feature and will be doing a show on the engine possibly on July 29th. There is also a planned feature in Motor Trend, but the date hasn't been determined yet. By the email I received from Tony, it sounds like the engine is operating without problems.

Smoky indeed was a legend. He built cars that won the Daytona 500, Indy 500 as well as many other classes. He was a genius at developing better flowing heads and General Motors made use of much of his work during the muscle car years. Don Garlits features some of Smoky's equipment he used for testing that he built from scratch in his Drag Racing museum. He made his own dyno and flow equipment before they were even available. He was a man ahead of his time.

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87 GT Maroon, Red Formula & White Formula

Yes, he was a character and a clever inventive genius. He built motors form knowledge and his opinions of how it should be.
I would expect that his hot vapor engine does work and work well, and with the addition of modern chemistry for oiling and cooling should be a viable entity.
I remember reading thru the articles on the 3.8 300+hp motor, and all the points and parts to use when I built my first 230hp 3.8.
after I wore that out, I did follow most of the details as best I could with the parts I could get and adapt . Spending some$$ too, ahh to be single.... but it did what was said. 300+hp, 8k redline. probably could have gone higher, but it was scary fast in a 5speed 2800lb car...
he was an inspiration to alot of budding automotive engineers and hot rodders.

Smoky did experiment with all aspects of the automobile. Tony has a number of prototype items and the technical notes from Smoky's works. Maybe Tony will have time to get into those projects and bring us some more of the late genius' technology.

Just a reminder! Today on the Spike Channel, Horsepower TV. A feature on the Hot Vapor Engine.

quote Originally posted by fierofool: Just a reminder! Today on the Spike Channel, Horsepower TV. A feature on the Hot Vapor Engine.

Time?

Did you see the claimed 0-60 mph ( 0-100km) times for the Duke engine 5.9 sec!!!! Under six seconds!!! Quite incredible if true.

Well, I watched it at noon today and didn't even hear the mention of a Fiero. It was about a Mustang. When did you see it, Dennis?

Ditto on the mustang show. I watched it anf waited to hear about the Vapor Engine.... nothing but F-body upgrades.

Did anyone record it?

Did anybody see this show? How can we contact the man with the car? I think Smokey was just getting started on what can be done....

I don't know if the gentleman would want to be contacted by a lot of people. I'll check with him and see if I can give out his name and contact info.

OK, I contacted him and he has given the approval for his email address. His name is Tony and he can be emailed at CapriceousCars "at" aol.com

Boy its to bad some of you gus would bash a guy like smokey he knew more about engines then probley all of us together will know i read about this engine way back when he did it and wonderd what happend last i knew he was selling the rights to it and as far as that go's some oil companie might have bought them and why well they dont want more fuel efficant cars they want to sell gas

OK, let's try it again. l just got word from Tony that the Director called him and told him the Smokey Yunick Hot Vapor Fiero series would air on September 23 and 24 on Horspower TV, on the Spike Channel.

Here is some more on the story. Enjoy!

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000002/HTML/20040710-1-038704.html

I went back and read the original patent - 4,503,833

In the prose section there is this statement:

The boost pressure provided by the homogenizer under specific turbine speeds is less than the boost pressure that would be provided by a similarly sized turbocharger used with a conventional internal combustion engine. The reason for the reduction in the boost pressure realized by the present invention is due to the conditioning of the fuel mixture by the vaporizer 50. As explained above, the vaporizer 50 adds heat to the incoming fuel mixture that not only vaporizes the liquid fuel entrained in the fuel mixture, but it raises the overall temperature and thus reduces the mixture density.

This leads one to believe that the boost pressures are modest and that the "homogenizer" is really just an air-fuel mixing device. But after you read it the second time you see that what he really said is that the same sized turbocharger creates less boost in his engine than it does in a conventional engine.

Now when you come down and read the test data you see this for his 125 cubic inch i.e. 2.0 L engine test engine

"Horsepower: 240 Hp at 4000 RPM (special high performance fuel-test code 20 with 21 pound boost)

Horsepower: 190 Hp at 4400 RPM (93 octane unleaded gasoline with 10 pound boost)"

So 240 HP with 21 pounds boost on a 2 liter engine with race fuel - doesn't sound too unrealistic.

Now if you took a 1.0L, 55hp Geo Metro engine and transplanted it into a Fiero you could probably get 45-50 mpg. That's because you probably only really need 30-40 HP to motor along when you are at steady speed. The problem is that when you take an engine that has the displacement and is tuned for 140 HP (like a 2.8L) and run it at part throttle so that it only puts out 30-40 horsepower inefficiencies creep in.

Perhaps Smokey stumbled on a way to effectively get a larger displacement engine to operate with the efficiency of a smaller displacement engine for light load operations by substantially increasing the air volume by heating the air/fuel to 400 'F.

And then for max power, boost the heck out of it. But I wouldn't bet on the longevity of an engine with 10-21 pounds boost feeding a 400 'F air/fuel mixture into the cylinders.

[This message has been edited by sanderson (edited 09-09-2006).]

quote Originally posted by fierofool: OK, let's try it again. l just got word from Tony that the Director called him and told him the Smokey Yunick Hot Vapor Fiero series would air on September 23 and 24 on Horspower TV, on the Spike Channel.

Sigh! I was flipping channels and only caught a glimpse of the Fiero Segment. According to the Spike schedule, it will be on again at 11AM Sunday morning. I plan to tape it.

I was actually working on my fiero all morning and didn't find out about the episode until just now. Luckily my DVR caught it

The Smokey Yunick feature was on Horsepower TV and through the miricle of TIVO I was able to capture it. They ran the car on the dyno but didn't report any numbers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNoKLIvpf-k

See it for yourself.




Got this from a swedish translation


What's interesting about this engine, is that a lot of discussion is about how efficiently you can burn the fuel. It's true that modern engines are very good at burning the fuel, that's not the secret of this engine. Efficiency is not just how much of the fuel is burned. It's how much useful work is done compared to the energy content of the fuel. Modern gas engines are probably around 30%. The rest of the energy ends up as heat.

What makes this engine interesting, is that the HEAT from the exhaust is used to do useful work, and then very cleverly the fuel is used to cool the coolant so even that heat is recovered. A more descriptive name for this engine would be an Adiabatic engine. If you could recover even a fraction of the wasted thermal energy this engine could be amazing.

It reminds me of the space shuttle main engines in which the fuel is used to cool the nozzles, which in turn pre-heats the fuel. It's a very efficient design.

Would this engine be practical in an everyday grocery getter? Maybe not, but I think the technology is sound.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 09-24-2006).]

I caught this on horespower tv sept-23-2006
they were dyno'ing a 84 fiero with this modified engine
claims by the owner indicated 250 hp with 51 mpg

no claim from the host as to the actual dyno results with this modification in the engine

show should be available for viewing on the horsepower site

tim