I already searched TD&Q and the archives. Didn't find this exact thing addressed.

Okay, I understand the 3rd gear grind is a common issue.
At higher RPM, or when trying to shift quickly, I get a quick grind (sounds like "zzzit!") when I shift into 3rd, 4th or 5th.
If I drive "normally" it seems to be fine, mostly. 5th still does it occasionally.
It also popped out of 3rd once, when I was creeping along in traffic, loading and unloading the drivetrain.

I'll mention that I'm running Castrol 20W50 (mostly) in the tranny. Used that to "store" the tranny until I got it on the road. Planning on buying the synchromesh at the earliest opportunity.

So the synchromesh is supposed to help the clashing. Will it help the slipping out of gear issue?
Is it possible that I have a cable out of adjustment?
The select cable has no adjustment that I'm aware of. The shift cable end is square, but the hole in the tranny shifter arm is rectangular. It's pretty much in the middle of the "adjustment".

The clutch is fine, BTW. Engages about halfway through the pedal's travel (much to my surprise and delight.) This is my formerly automatic 3.4, converted to a 5 speed.

Anyone?

------------------
Raydar
88 4.9 Formula IMSA Fasback..........................88 3.4 coupe................................................

Read Nealz Nuze! Praise the Lowered!

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 12-05-2006).]

Can't help too much, but I can suggest one thing:

Remove the cables from your linkage on the tranny, and see if the trans shifts smoothly 'by hand' into the gears. If so, then make sure your connections on the linkage are actually letting the trans go into gear fully. If that's the case... Well, it's beyond me then. Hope you have luck with it!

Sounds like a cable adjustment (not going fully into gear, however that shouldn't cause a grind when normally shifting) or worse: a Synchro (More likely).

Also check the nuts holding the shifter cable down, sometimes it gets loose and subsequently the cable doesn't travel the full range of motion.

Edit* Just read your addressing the Synchro's. Yes it can cause rough gear selection and even spitting the gear back out.

[This message has been edited by Emc209i (edited 12-06-2006).]

quote Originally posted by Emc209i: Also check the nuts holding the shifter cable down, sometimes it gets loose and subsequently the cable doesn't travel the full range of motion. Edit* Just read your addressing the Synchro's. Yes it can cause rough gear selection and even spitting the gear back out.

Ditto, Found this to be true on the 87GT picked up last summer. The guy through the shifter cables on there loose as heck, re-torqued and checked everything --along with a fluid change---is back to new again. So now I`m going to tear the whole thing apart for the swap--makes alot of sence..?

quote Originally posted by Raydar: I already searched TD&Q and the archives. Didn't find this exact thing addressed. Okay, I understand the 3rd gear grind is a common issue. At higher RPM, or when trying to shift quickly, I get a quick grind (sounds like "zzzit!") when I shift into 3rd, 4th or 5th. If I drive "normally" it seems to be fine, mostly. 5th still does it occasionally. It also popped out of 3rd once, when I was creeping along in traffic, loading and unloading the drivetrain. I'll mention that I'm running Castrol 20W50 (mostly) in the tranny. Used that to "store" the tranny until I got it on the road. Planning on buying the synchromesh at the earliest opportunity. So the synchromesh is supposed to help the clashing. Will it help the slipping out of gear issue? Is it possible that I have a cable out of adjustment? The select cable has no adjustment that I'm aware of. The shift cable end is square, but the hole in the tranny shifter arm is rectangular. It's pretty much in the middle of the "adjustment". The clutch is fine, BTW. Engages about halfway through the pedal's travel (much to my surprise and delight.) This is my formerly automatic 3.4, converted to a 5 speed. Anyone?

The last two Getrags I have had have done the "zzit!" thing when I snap into the taller (4th and 5th) gears really quick, especially if I let out the clutch in between coming out of one gear and going into the next when the car is cold and therefore high-idling. My 3rd kinda feels like it "snags a tooth", perhaps one "click" of the several make up the "zzit!" sound, when you cram 3rd gear really really quick.

The role of the synchros as I understand it is to match the speed of the clutch disc and trans input to the output speed before the actual driving and driven gears for the next ratio are blocked in. This is tougher for the synchros when the speed difference is greater, and the 3rd-5th synchros have an even harder time because as I understand it they are not as large. Also making it more difficult is when the clutch doesn't disengage all the way and the synchros have to try to change the rotational velocity of the whole engine, but it sounds like neither you nor I have a clutch problem.

I have run synchromesh, 5W30 and 10W30, and while the synchromesh is a lot nicer, it doesn't entirely overcome the shifting really really quick thing. I doubt it will help your popping out of gear, since I think thats due to either some endplay stackup in the trans or component wear, but it will make your "zzit!"ing almost entirely go away. Don't feel too bad about it though, because I can definitely rip through the gears fast enough in a friends "FC" RX7 N/A that it will make the "grinding gears" sound with the clutch all the way to the floor.

As a side note on the shifter cable adjustment thing, if you look in your Helm's manual it has shifter cable adjusting procedures (at least for the four speed) where it tells you where to position the shift and select levers and then you stick a drill bit through a hole in the shifter linkage assembly and tighten down the nut for the cable wherever it ends up with the shifter and trans in their fixed locations.

Good Luck!

Kurt

My Getrag (with Syncromesh) doesn't grind when shifting hard from 2 to 3. I typically pre-load the shifter by pushing on it in the direction of the shift, about 1 sec prior to shifting, then push in the clutch just long enough for the shifter to reach the next gear. Works fine. The shift throw is too long for my taste, but it shifts as designed with no grinding. I never shift hard into 4.

Assuming that the cables are adjusted properly, if it pops out of gear then that synchro is toast, bad news. Grinding and clashing is caused by worn blocker rings (little bronze cone clutches that match speeds on the synchro teeth when shifting) assuming the clutch is releasing all the way.

James

Thanks everyone.
The tranny was never getting fully shifted into 3rd. Amazing what a little bit of cable adjustment will accomplish (along with tightening the bracket that holds the shift cable to the tranny. Obviously I overlooked it, the first time. )
The "jumping out of gear" issue is gone. It still grinds going into third and fourth just a bit, but stops as soon as it's been driven for just a bit. (The required drive time for it to stop is shorter every time I drive the car.) Fifth gear still grinds a bit, but I have hope that it will get better as time goes on.
Although it looks like it has been rebuilt, this tranny was not driven for nearly 8 years. Stored with no oil in it for at least several months. (The last year when I stored it, it was kept full of oil and rotated whenever I thought about it.)
Now that it's finally been awakened, it's probably mad.

To the main point of my post...
I've read elsewhere that the Getrag shift cables are not adjustable.
Not true, although it's NOT spelled out very clearly in the Helm manual, either. This is what I've been able to gather by reading stuff and talking with people.

To adjust a Getrag shift cable:
Shift into third gear.
Loosen the shift cable nut on the ball stud at the shift arm on the tranny.
Below and in front of the big pin that the shifter pivots front-to-back on is a small hole. Poke a 5/32 drill bit across, through that hole and the corresponding hole on the shifter frame. (You might have to move the shifter a bit to make the holes line up. I did.)
Go back and make sure the tranny shift lever is firmly locked into third gear.
Tighten the nut on the ball stud at the tranny shift arm.

That's it. There is no adjustment for the select cable.

I appreciate all the tips!

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 12-12-2006).]