Ok this weekend I made really good progress. I set the valve lash like you guy advise...I really did not realize how lose the lash was until I felt the compression and between how I set the 3.4 and how the 2.8 was set. On the 3.4 I was able to wiggle the rocker and the push rod so I tighten it until there was no wiggle and than turned it a full turn and a half. Please correct me if I missed something still...so I assembled and set the timing for good measure again I use the technique you guys advise... I turned it over and...nothing yea I was in despair but, words of inspiration from Frizelfrak, “You're getting there....keep plugging at it” at least I there was no back fire and it was sounding better it seemed like it was sucking in air better and the timing was on...the next thing was to add fuel in so I had someone spry starting fluid while I turned the engine over...it fired up!!! and ran for a few seconds very rough and it shut off...I did it again and same thing happened... progress made i have, happy am I but better would I be...if I can get it to run right what do u think guys??? how can tell if the injectors are working I thought they were...

Great Deal !!!!! Have you checked your fuel pump and relay . Also, you need the engine running to time it, with the a&b terminals in the aldl connector grounded, I`ll bet if you turn the distributor a little , it may fire up for you.....Double check to make sure all the connector`s are plugged toghther, espcially the ones that feed the injectors---your very close, just double back and check your fuel system components again...

Excellent progress!! You're allllllmost there.

OK....we've established that it has fuel pressure. And it will run with a shot of ether, so we obviously have compression and spark.

Next thing is to figure out if your injectors are pulsing. You will need a noid light. You can borrow one from Auto Zone. Have a buddy crank it (or use a remote starter switch) with the light attached and see if the ECM is firing the injectors. Any parts house sells them.


Now....two things concern me. First, you mentioned the plugs were wet before....wet as in fouled? All of them, or just 1 or 2? I know you replaced them, but I'd like to know how they got that wet in the first place. You also stated that it held fuel pressure at around 40 psi once you turned the key off, so we can probably rule out a leaking injector, but I'm concerned that the ECM is throwing an extreme rich mixture into the combustion chambers for some reason.....

So get the noid light and let's see what your injectors are doing, or not doing and we'll go from there.

[This message has been edited by Frizlefrak (edited 11-06-2006).]

You do have every sensor connected right, even the MAT. Lots of folks will say it dont mater if that one is connected or, but I've seen one really screw up the fuel mix making it very rich and then very lean. It was a bad one. They only cost like $13. Thinking about the wet plugs, what if his cold start injector is staying on? Can that even happen?

So I got home late today and I was unable to pick up the noid light by the way if I were to buy one how much would it be? So I get to work on my car I checked the fuel pump relay and made sure it kicked in and it did. The next thing I did was to check the fuel pressrue again cuz we’re sure that I am facing a fuel problem now... I still got 40psi in the on position and when turned off it still holds...I was wondering when release the pressure form the fuel line with the key still in the on position, shouldn’t the fuel pump be pumping to maintain the 40 pis? Cuz on mine it squirts out like it should with 40psi behind it and goes into a dribble... is that right??? it seems like the fuel pump has initial pressure and thats it? On the brighter side after checking these things I decided to give it a go and try to fire it up, it kinda ran and die off I was surprise that I didn’t even have to spray engine start. It wanted to start but I guess the fuel injectors/line/pressure I don’t know something to do with the fuel system...I then checked the spark plugs on piston 1,3, and 5 and it look fine didn’t have a soak look like it use too...

quote Originally posted by fierotjv: .I was wondering when release the pressure form the fuel line with the key still in the on position, shouldn’t the fuel pump be pumping to maintain the 40 pis? Cuz on mine it squirts out like it should with 40psi behind it and goes into a dribble... is that right???

Yes.

quote Originally posted by fierotjv: it seems like the fuel pump has initial pressure and thats it?

When you turn the key on, the ECM primes the system by activating the fuel pump for 2 seconds. It then shuts off until it sees a crank signal from the distributor.

The noid light kits can be had for around $20.

[This message has been edited by Frizlefrak (edited 11-06-2006).]

Today I went on my lunch break to find a noid light and to my surprise no one knew what I was talking about... I went to the Autozone they didnt have one and they told me to try Pep Boys...well Pep Boys really don’t sell as much parts as they sell min bike and accessaries ha ha...I went to Kragen and the same answer as the other 3 stores I went too. Ill try Sears on my way home from work today.

quote Originally posted by fierotjv: Today I went on my lunch break to find a noid light and to my surprise no one knew what I was talking about... I went to the Autozone they didnt have one and they told me to try Pep Boys...well Pep Boys really don’t sell as much parts as they sell min bike and accessaries ha ha...I went to Kragen and the same answer as the other 3 stores I went too. Ill try Sears on my way home from work today.

They work at parts stores....and don't know what a noid light set is? I guess this shouldn't surprise me. Try some tool stores...they should have one. If not, you can order one off Harbor Freight's web site.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92667

If you have a Sears store with a large tool dept, they should have it.

Ok well I was able to get a noid light after looking all over the place. I got home and took off the top manifold and unplugged the injector on the #1 cylinder. I then plugged in the noid light and turned the key in the on position...the light was not blinking so that means I have an electrical problem right? The only thing I messed with on the electrical harness is the a/c I cut it off and left it like that...what else can I check

Have you ever check the pink and pink/white wires to see if they have power on them at the injector harness?
If they don't have +12 then the noid light is probably not going to do anything.

quote Originally posted by fierotjv: I then plugged in the noid light and turned the key in the on position...the light was not blinking so that means I have an electrical problem right?

You were cranking the engine while watching the noid, correct? Just turning the key on won't do anything.

quote Originally posted by Dodgerunner: Have you ever check the pink and pink/white wires to see if they have power on them at the injector harness? If they don't have +12 then the noid light is probably not going to do anything.

Excellent advice. If the noid doesn't flash during cranking, check for 12V. The 12V is supplied from the fuse box, and the ECM grounds the injectors to complete the circuit and "fire" the injector.

Happy hunting.

I am getting +12 on the pink/white and I am getting +12 on both terminals of the fuel injector...one side should be grounded right???I am doing this with the key in the on position... does that mean my I have a short somewhere

[This message has been edited by fierotjv (edited 11-09-2006).]

If the ecm is not firing the injector you will read +12 on either side of the inj. to ground.
You should see a lower voltage on the one side when cranking since the ecm should be grounding it.
Since it is a fast pulse you will not see to low a voltage but might see some drop.
If you put your meter on low AC volts you would probably see a small voltage while cranking if it is pulsing. Not certain on that but in theory you should.

ok, you determined there is 12v there, so you don;t have a short.
connect the noid light and have someone crank the motor, keep th light in your cupped hand. some can be hard to see in bright light. realise the pulse to ground is only about 20 milliseconds, so that;s not much of a flash!
with a meter in a/c on the 12v scale, you should see an initial voltage spike when you connect it, then it will settle down to some reading, depending on the meter and it;s wiring how it will read dc voltage on ac scales. crank the motor. you should see the needle blip. a digital meter is not going to work for this. if it only barely reads any voltage in ac, you can go to a lower scale, ie on the 12v scale, it reads less voltage then the next lower scale, drop to the lower scale. the meter will be more sensative to voltage changes that way.
only ohter thing you could try, if you have an extra injector, plug that one in, you will feel the click when it is firing.
Remember, it will only fire if the motor is cranking, the ecm triggers off the pulses from the distributor.

[This message has been edited by tjm4fun (edited 11-12-2006).]

So I finally realized that I needed to have someone to crank the engine in order for the noid light to work... Duh!!!! I forgot to read that detail from you guys If I wasn't so excited that I was able to purchase a noid light, I probably would've read the directions more carefully. Come to think of it, now I understand that the injectors on both terminals were getting positive voltage because the ECU grounds one side in order to pulsate the injectors. It requires less current to ground a circuit rather than send a positive 12V at that speed. So after the little mishap, I got to work doing it correctly WITH someone cranking it. The light was flashing so that indicated that the ECU was working correctly and that the problem lies within the fuel injectors/fuel system.

I proceeded to change out the fuel rail and fuel injectors to the stock '88 but still no start! I'm not sure exactly what happened but the fuel pump wasn't working anymore If it wasn't one problem, it was another!! I began to trace out the problem, read the fuel system schematic and tested the fuel pump by a power source to the G-terminal to the ADL and the pump didn't work. I traced it back to the fuse and switched it out even though it looked good.... and BAM the pump was back on again! I proceeded to crank the engine over and still no start but it ran slightly longer so that gave me hope. I then remembered reading a post that said something about idle air control needing to be working in order for it to control the fuel injectors or something like that. So I checked out the sensor and it was fully extended out. I then resetted it by turning it back to the correct length. I cranked over the engine and it started over and ran very rough and shut off minutes later. The good thing is that its running minutes now not just seconds I had to actuate the throttle in order for the engine to stay on and the computer began to adjust itself.

So now its finally running!!! (sort of... lol) I know that the stock injectors are undersized for the engine but I just needed to test the camaro fuel injectors to see what was going on with them. What do you think... Can I still run with the stock injectors or will I be running lean and overheat? Is there anything else that I should check or do? The oil pressure is high and feels as if the engine is nice and tight. I know soon with a little more advice, I will get my car tuned and back on the road. Thanks to everyone who has helped me!!! I couldn't have done it without you guys! Thank you again!

Outstanding!!

You did a good job troubleshooting . Now that it runs, you've obviously satisified the three requirements. Remember how I said "everything else is fluff"?

Now it's time to work on the fluff.

1. Double check your ignition timing first.
2. Check for vacuum leaks. Hook up a vacuum gauge at idle and see how many pounds of vacuum you have. A vacuum leak will cause it to run pig rich and very rough.
3. Allow it to warm up fully and check for codes, ensure that it's going into closed loop. Drive it so the computer can learn the parameters.

Start with those three things, keep tuning until you get it running like you want it to run.

I love happy endings

Glad to hear its up and going!!!!! I think Dodgerunner is going with the 3.4 injectors, you may want to pm him on that to make sure, others have run the stock 2.8`s with out any problem, as said above, it`s just some tweeking to do now.....

Frizlefrak just symantics but that inch of vacuum not pounds. Vac leaks can make it run lean or rich depends on how the system is working etc.
fierotjv like superfast said I went with the 3.4 inj. Was going to try the 2.8's but after testing them the 3.4's looked better spray wise etc.
I don't know how long yours have set but two of my 3.4's where stuck and I had to work them a bit to get them unstuck but after that they where fine. Would have not known that without testing them.
Also had three of the 2.8's stuck and got all of them working but one was low on flow. Probably would have got it working but went with the 3.4's instead of spending more time on it.

quote Originally posted by Dodgerunner: Frizlefrak just symantics but that inch of vacuum not pounds.

Crap....I did put pounds, didn't I? Yikes I'm glad one of us is awake.