Howdys. My Fiero seems to have a problem starting when its hot outside. Its only happened a few times the past year, but the car leaves me stranded for hours when it does.
After I drive the car a while or until it reaches operating temperature, and its a hot day outside, the car wont turn over when I go to start it again for hours or until it seems to cool off. All the lights come on, everything dings and acts like normal, but the car just wont turn over. The engine does nothing when I turn the key. I can hear the fuel pump start so I know its not that. Anyone have ideas?
-Brady
------------------ -Brady
IP: Logged
05:54 PM
PFF
System Bot
Ajax Zem Member
Posts: 283 From: Jamestown, NY USA Registered: May 2002
I had the same problem a while back, it ended up being the starter. I guess it was just going bad, and when it got too hot it just wouldn't do anything. Finally it gave up altogether.
IP: Logged
05:58 PM
Bradester Member
Posts: 236 From: Sherwood, OR, USA Registered: Mar 2005
I had the same problem a while back, it ended up being the starter. I guess it was just going bad, and when it got too hot it just wouldn't do anything. Finally it gave up altogether.
Hmmmm.... Im guessing that fixing the starter is something I cant do myself given it's location, where ever that is under such a low car and I dont have means to jack it up?
------------------ -Brady
IP: Logged
06:01 PM
rasalibre4life Member
Posts: 122 From: Los Angeles, CA Registered: Aug 2005
if you can get the car up it's super easy to get at. I think there's only two bolts that hold it on and you don't need to disconnect anything else to get to it right? I haven't changed one but I've had to unbolt and remove it to get at other things, so I can't imagine it being difficult at all.
IP: Logged
06:09 PM
Unsafe At Any Speed Member
Posts: 2299 From: Cheyenne, WY Registered: Feb 2003
It's the starter. I had the same problem. In fact, I just changed it out last weekend. As long as you can get the car jacked up, it's not to hard to replace. First, you'll need to remove the heat shield which has two bolts. Then the starter will come out after you remove its two bolts. The replacement goes back in the same way and shouldn't cost that much either. Mine was like $48. The only trouble I had was getting the shim in place, but that was just because i didn't have the car up very high. Just remember to put it on blocks or something so it isn't resting on the jack alone. Overall, it's an easy job.
and you don't need to disconnect anything else to get to it right?
Just make sure you disconnect the negative battery cable BEFORE you begin removing the starter. To be safe, tie the cable out of the way or otherwise ensure that it can't contact the battery terminal.
Lotsa juice flowing through the starter cable. If you happen to touch the wrench to a ground while removing the cable from the starter, you'll probably weld the wrench to the car, not to mention doing some damage to yourself.
Well, the shop called and they say its not the starter. Should I believe them? They say its getting all the proper voltage and whatnot.
yes. no start when hot is usually bad battery cables, bad ground & weak battery. heat kill conductivity, and if the cables are weak, it gets even worse. and battery's dont like heat either. most parts store will do a battery test free. right there, in car, in the parking lot.
IP: Logged
02:05 PM
Bradester Member
Posts: 236 From: Sherwood, OR, USA Registered: Mar 2005
yes. no start when hot is usually bad battery cables, bad ground & weak battery. heat kill conductivity, and if the cables are weak, it gets even worse. and battery's dont like heat either. most parts store will do a battery test free. right there, in car, in the parking lot.
The grounds are new and the battery is good. I already tested that.
------------------ -Brady
IP: Logged
02:07 PM
PFF
System Bot
Pyrthian Member
Posts: 29569 From: Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2002
Well.... its not the battery cables. They just checked em out for me. I wonder if my Ignition Module (that has a life-time warranty) is bad? I only replaced it like 4 months ago, but that doesnt mean its any good.
------------------ -Brady
IP: Logged
02:57 PM
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
Lotsa juice flowing through the starter cable. ...
True, the start cable is connected directly to the battery with no current interrupters of any kind, so you could flow HUNDREDs of amps through that wire.
The starter is burried up under the car pretty far so you need the rear end up pretty high to work comfortably. A creeper on wheels helps, but you have to get it up even higher. Just make sure you have jack stands and block the front wheels. I usually have two sets of jack stands before I will get under a car. Other than that a starter is not a hard job.
IP: Logged
03:42 PM
Pyrthian Member
Posts: 29569 From: Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2002
Well.... its not the battery cables. They just checked em out for me. I wonder if my Ignition Module (that has a life-time warranty) is bad? I only replaced it like 4 months ago, but that doesnt mean its any good.
if the ignition module is bad, the starter will still crank. from what your described, the car does not crank. if it does crank, and doesnt start, only when hot, then that is usually a leaky fuel injector
IP: Logged
03:48 PM
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
There are very few things that will prevent an engine from cranking...
As I stated earlier you have a wire from the battery directly to the starter. All the ignition switch does is pull in a relay to the starter, (the click) Do you get a click? No click means that you have a:
1) bad ignition switch, (unlikely as it works when the car is cold) 2) a bad park/neutral switch (unlikely for same reason) 3) bad starter
If you get a "click" and no crank it's even easier, you have a bad starter.
I would bet a month's salary you have a bad starter. I had this same problem on my 88 coupe and a new starter solved everthing. The only way to be sure would be to test the starter when it's hot in a no start condition, but in my opinion that's a waste of time. You have a bad starter.
[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 07-21-2006).]
IP: Logged
04:15 PM
Jul 22nd, 2006
Bradester Member
Posts: 236 From: Sherwood, OR, USA Registered: Mar 2005
A starter can and absolutely will leave a car stranded when hot. Starters, batteries and battery cables are all heat sensitive. If any of those is even a tiny bit weak, you'll get just this sort of problem.
It is recomended that when the starter is replaced, the battery cables are replaced regardless of appearance and the battery be at least tested, preferably hot, to make sure it's not also going bad. The charging system should also be tested to make sure it's not damaging the battery. NEVER trust volt/amp gauges on the dash when you are trying to determin the source of a problem.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurasic Park)
Just go ahead and get a new CS-style alternator (~$70), starter (~$50) and battery. You're set then.
But really, from my experience it's the starter. Sounds exactly like what was happening to me. Worse case, if that's not the problem, take the new starter back and try something else.
IP: Logged
04:36 PM
Ajax Zem Member
Posts: 283 From: Jamestown, NY USA Registered: May 2002
If they tested the starter for you and it seems to work and not be the problem I would be inclined to say that it still could be the problem. If it's only problematic when hot then pulling it out and testing it would'nt neccisarily(sp??) indicate a problem unless it was under the right conditions.
I say replace the starter anyway and see what that does for you. But that just my $.02
IP: Logged
06:08 PM
PFF
System Bot
StuGood Member
Posts: 3172 From: Wichita, KS, USA Registered: Jun 2000
Just for what it's worth: Had a car that would barely crank in hot weather, after being dirven and then parked for a few minutes (e.g. - stop at an ATM or ice cream store for 5 minutes, get back in car and it'd barely crank). Was afraid the thing was eventually going to strand me somewhere, but it'd crank slowly and finally fire. Never left me stranded with a quart of melting ice cream but it was always a fear.
Checked the grounds, cables, etc. Never found anything that was obviously in need of repair/ replacement/ cleaning, but cleaned all of the terminals, etc. Car still exhibited the same worrisome behavior. Long story short, it turned out the radiator fan switch was defective, so the fan wasn't coming on, The thing was operating at too high a temperature but not boiling over or anything obvious. When I shut down the engine for a quick stop, it would be hot-soaked and created a lot of drag turning the engine (piston drag, I imagine).
Replaced the switch, and it never gave trouble cranking (FWIW, this was a 1982 Cavalier, 1.8-l four-cylinder). Just something else to check, if it turns out not to be the starting system itself. Good luck !
IP: Logged
06:22 PM
Unsafe At Any Speed Member
Posts: 2299 From: Cheyenne, WY Registered: Feb 2003
If they tested the starter for you and it seems to work and not be the problem I would be inclined to say that it still could be the problem. If it's only problematic when hot then pulling it out and testing it would'nt neccisarily(sp??) indicate a problem unless it was under the right conditions.
Exactly, I bought a new alternator for my Blazer last year, but it wouldn't charge once the car was up to temp and the alternator was under load. So, when they would test it, it would show up as being fine. They wouldn't replace it under warranty. Finally they did though, after I brought it back into Checker for about the third or fourth time.
IP: Logged
06:53 PM
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
Well, I had a new starter installed today by another garage,... Hopefully things will be better now.
I'm sure it will be fine.
I just got finished replacing the bad alternator that Autozone tested as good. Their test equipment is only designed to find the most obvious failures...not heat induced intermittent problems like the one you have.
IP: Logged
08:30 PM
Jul 26th, 2006
rogergarrison Member
Posts: 49601 From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio Registered: Apr 99
Often overlooked when a car cranks too slow to start when its hot is distributor timing too far advanced. Have timing checked and set or try retarding the distributer slightly when it does crank slow and see if it improves.
IP: Logged
07:01 PM
Jul 29th, 2006
Blakrayn Member
Posts: 11 From: Winston Salem, NC Registered: Jun 2006
but it was always a fear.
