My clutch in my '87 gt went the other day. I want to go ahead and make my conversion now. What years are good for horsepower on the 3800 supercharged? I have a 355 lt1 sitting in my garage but due to money and time Im thinking of going with a 3800. I can get one with about 60,000 for 650.00. I need some good advice about how much work is involved in the 3800 change. I know there is a lot of work to install the lt1. Thanks
------------------ 2002 trans am,1994 trans am, 1986 iroc z-28, 1985 fiero,1987 gt fiero
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08:45 AM
PFF
System Bot
gandyman Member
Posts: 33 From: Goose Creek, SC, USA Registered: Feb 2006
The LT1 swap is not really easy but but not hard at all. The killer is the kit is over $3,000. I Got mine from Archie over a year ago and it was like $3,100 or something. At the time he sold the LT1 kit only as a complete parts kit. It comes with everything you need to do the swap. You need to notch the frame in two spots. Comes with new axles and every other part needed. The wiring is easy only due to the fact that so many people sell kits for it. S&P will talor one with all the correct connectors and ECM for you. So the total price for the swap on a LT1 if you have your motor already is around $4,000. Well I just wanted to tell you about the LT1 swap price and hope that helps you. you can drop the price by doing your own wiring. I am starting on my 3800SC swap now and am really in shock as to how much cheaper it is. This swap because it is my second one or just the thier are so many people doing this swap on this forum has made it really easy. I hope I helped in some way.
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01:07 PM
ghostle1 Member
Posts: 97 From: powhatan,virginia Registered: Mar 2005
that helps on the lt1 side. I can get a 3800sc for 650 can someone help me with a ballpark fiqure? I did find some one else that sells inividual parts for the lt1 conversion. But they don't sell everything that you need either. Can someone help me with a ballpark fiqure going the piece by piece way. I know it's a lot more headache than going with archie's kit. thanks for your help
------------------ 2002 trans am,1994 trans am, 1986 iroc z-28, 1985 fiero,1987 gt fiero
that helps on the lt1 side. I can get a 3800sc for 650 can someone help me with a ballpark fiqure? I did find some one else that sells inividual parts for the lt1 conversion. But they don't sell everything that you need either. Can someone help me with a ballpark fiqure going the piece by piece way. I know it's a lot more headache than going with archie's kit. thanks for your help
Your looking at 4 grand at the very least doing a 3800SC swap. Thats with a stock motor and you doing all the work, except for the wiring. I have the cost of each thing written down somewhere with ballpark figures for each parts.
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05:19 PM
darkhorizon Member
Posts: 12279 From: Flint Michigan Registered: Jan 2006
I am starting on my 3800SC swap now and am really in shock as to how much cheaper it is. This swap because it is my second one or just the thier are so many people doing this swap on this forum has made it really easy. I hope I helped in some way.
My total money spent is still around $1000, including the cost of EVERYTHING, even the car itself. Either of them are just about as easy, but you may find some trouble finding cheap v8 conversion parts.
This all depends on how much you are willing to fabricate yourself.
I am almost done with my auto swap. check the link below me.
The biggest money saver is going to be patience. I have been collecting parts for 6 months now. One thing that has saved me tons of money is being a junkyard rat. There is a fairly good size yard here that deals in alot of newer style cars, I have been there about 8 times or so, collecting parts in a secret pile, just to go back and buy them all at once. I got everything except my block from there, as they dont deal in nice low mileage motors. My friend was becoming interested in doing a swap like this in his 86 gt, so I took him shopping with me one day to go and get a trans, and we found a trans and motor together with 100k miles on it for $500, that we split even. Turned out the engine was rebuilt, with a brand new supercharger, so he sorta lucked out big time on that deal, but my trans seems to be in ok shape so far.
Anyway, I think you will find that the power and reliability would be almost identical between motors, also, they both have alot of potential with the addition of aftermarket parts for reasonable prices.
------------------ Check out my 3800 swap thread and lend your advice!
that helps on the lt1 side. I can get a 3800sc for 650 can someone help me with a ballpark fiqure? I did find some one else that sells inividual parts for the lt1 conversion. But they don't sell everything that you need either. Can someone help me with a ballpark fiqure going the piece by piece way. I know it's a lot more headache than going with archie's kit. thanks for your help
What trans are you going to use. I am looking at around $1500 for my 3800sc swap. It is my first 3800sc so I still have to see about the total cost. As it is right now I do not see me going over the $2000 mark. But I also do alot of my own fab. work that helps keep it down. This will also be a dependable daily driver. It is really what you have to pay for that you can not do yourself.
[This message has been edited by gandyman (edited 06-21-2006).]
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06:10 PM
86fieroEarl Member
Posts: 2203 From: Orlando, FL Registered: Jun 2002
Going to say the same thing but with a few added things from my above post. If you want a dependable, daily driven 3800SC then 4 grand is going to be about the minimum you can spend. You can spend less if you want a motor/trans with very high miles, or a cheap clutch that you will be pulling out after 2 months. If you are going to spend the money and take the time to do the swap, then spend the money and do it right the first time. It will get old dropping the cradle every other month to fix something that broke becasue you was trying to save money. This is just the opinion of someone who has done 2 swaps and is working on a third. And to add, my 3800SC Fieros are daily drivers, thats meaning I drive it everyday and everywhere.
Short of it---Spend the money and do it right, you will enjoy it more in the end.
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07:03 PM
Jun 22nd, 2006
ghostle1 Member
Posts: 97 From: powhatan,virginia Registered: Mar 2005
As far as the fiero transmissions go, I think you will get a bunch of different answers. The Archie guys say that these transmissions will handle any type of power they can make with a v8. There is also a turbo lt1 running around somewhere that runs on the 5speed transmission. So basicly put, people put lots of power on them, but I also think that I see alot of people needing new transmissions due to the fact they blew them into peices with huge motors.
------------------ Check out my 3800 swap thread and lend your advice!
Originally posted by darkhorizon: My total money spent is still around $1000, including the cost of EVERYTHING, even the car itself. Either of them are just about as easy, but you may find some trouble finding cheap v8 conversion parts.
Mine is looking to be in the area of 2k with $1500 in the engine/trans/bunch of parts. Engine swaps are not expensive, just a lot of people like to talk like they are. If you have a welder and some injenuity its not hard or expensive. If you're picky you dont even have to have a good welder or be good at it, you could tack your parts together and take them somewhere.
The mounts are simple if you have a small assortment of steel, a drill, torch, grinder and mig. Then run down to the parts store and grab half a dozen engine mounts that look promising, take them home and make what you need, then return the extras
The CV shafts are easily assembled from off the shelf parts, though sorting out exactly which parts is still somewhat confusing. I did find that the stock Fiero auto drivers side CV shaft is a straight fit for the 4T65E-HD, no mods, but might lack in strength, I dunno yet. If you use a stock fiero tranny, then they are already there, but you will want to put some money into the clutch kit $350. Then you have to get a custom flywheel $250.
Wiring is pretty much free, I spent $20 on tape, heatshrink, wire ties and etc. gmtuners.com has all the common engine platforms wiring diagrams online. All you need is a little patience.
You will want to check the output of the Fuel pump from the stock car and make sure you meet or exceede it, worst case $100 for a walbro FP. Hoses are easy enough to make from $20 of brake line and high pressure fuel hose
Your vacum lines and brake booster varies widely, but nothing $20 of hose cant take care of
Throttle cables can usualy be tweaked to work, and in some cases are a straight bolt in
Shift cables for newer A/T are a little tricky as they sometimes shift backwards compared to Fiero, you have to be sneaky to fix this with some bracketing and levering, but its not hard.
Coolant hoses are oddly enough usualy close to stock, and in any case shouldnt run you more than $12 each. Heater lines can usualy be made from heater hose, though I have some 1/2,5/8 pipe laying around for long streches.
Then the exaust is going to be tricky without the right tools, but a couple of $20 J bends and an $80 flowmaster should get most of it there.
What will get you is the odd ball swaps, like the LT1, where you have to get a tranny adapter, starter, oil filter relocation kit, and special water pumps and what not for clearance.
What you get a lot is people telling you that "you have to do this... or that... or you have to buy this..." usualy its not true, they did this so automaticaly everyone "has" to do it.
I dont know about the LT1, but the 3.4DOHC is a very easy and cheap swap, but the engine tends to lack in reliability, and im not basing that on my experiences so much as what Ive heard from everyone else. You will get about the same performace but in a diffrent package with the 3.8SC with more aftermarket potential. Now you are going to need a beefy clutch, a custom flywheel, and a prayer for the tranny, but you should be ok. You will also need to relocate the alternator down where the PS pump used to be to clear the decklid. From there its simply making the mounts and rewiring the harness. Then feed it some gas (with a little trimming you can flip the fuel rail around, and if you have most of the plastic lines from the stock car, the line right up with the Fiero lines) tweak in the throttle cable, and plumb the vac system. Depending on the year you might need ECM tweaking for the lack of a second 02, lack of auto tranny, and pass-key. Then its onto the exaust and out the door!
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01:12 PM
PFF
System Bot
ghostle1 Member
Posts: 97 From: powhatan,virginia Registered: Mar 2005
I've been doing sheet metal and machine work and welding for the last 32 years so if I can come up with a plan I can make just about anything I need. I'm getting a lot of good info here. Thanks everyone.
------------------ 2002 trans am,1994 trans am, 1986 iroc z-28, 1985 fiero,1987 gt fiero
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02:28 PM
Fiero2m8 Member
Posts: 1928 From: Niagara, Ontario, Canada Registered: Feb 2006
I bought Archie's V8 kit for approx $1,500 and modded it to a LT1 kit myself since I bought the kit before the LT1 kit was available. I also bought a Street and Performance harness/ECU for about $700 but if I had to do it again, I could have done the wiring myself. Judging by the LT1 in your garage and the other cars you own and know well, I am surprised you are considering the 3800.
As far as the fiero transmissions go, I think you will get a bunch of different answers. The Archie guys say that these transmissions will handle any type of power they can make with a v8. There is also a turbo lt1 running around somewhere that runs on the 5speed transmission. So basicly put, people put lots of power on them, but I also think that I see alot of people needing new transmissions due to the fact they blew them into peices with huge motors.
I am running the getrag five speed in my car... so far it is holding up fine.. I would not recomand side steping the clutch at 6000 rpm :-) This setup started with an 120000 mile lt1 that ran fine for a long time without any problems.. I made the ecm harness my self to save a few bucks... The newest setup cost a few bucks more to put together though... :-) A stock lt1 is a very relieable setup and you don't have to spin it up far to get performance.. The old addage is true... speed cost money... but i had loads of fun with my stock lt1... Hope this gives you a little insite into the lt1 side of things... Chuck PS... Archie did not say that....
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10:53 PM
Jun 23rd, 2006
ghostle1 Member
Posts: 97 From: powhatan,virginia Registered: Mar 2005
That is a clean lookin lt1. You didn't use the stock water pump as shown in the picture on the stand did you? I didn't think that was possible. What type of exhaust manifolds are those? Have you had any problem with cracking on the exhaust manifold.
------------------ 2002 trans am,1994 trans am, 1986 iroc z-28, 1985 fiero,1987 gt fiero
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07:12 AM
ghostle1 Member
Posts: 97 From: powhatan,virginia Registered: Mar 2005
Turn the intake around and seal it Thats about it. You'll have more fun with the LT1, but the 5 speed wont last if you have too much fun.
------------------ 1986 GT, LT1/4T60E. In the middle of cam/port, new interior, paint and waiting on new wheels. Itll blow you away!! http://hometown.aol.com/ptfiero/index.html build http://dtcc.cz28.com/Customer/LT1Fiero/index.htm
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08:25 AM
darkhorizon Member
Posts: 12279 From: Flint Michigan Registered: Jan 2006
doing the labor & fabbing different things will reduce this drastically
By drasticly he means like $3000. There is an answer to just about anything and everything at your local junkyard and welding shop for little to no money. If you have a relationship with either of these type places you can do this swap very easily.
I just made front mounts for my swap this morning, pictures up on my swap thread soon.
------------------ Check out my 3800 swap thread and lend your advice!
That is a clean lookin lt1. You didn't use the stock water pump as shown in the picture on the stand did you? I didn't think that was possible. What type of exhaust manifolds are those? Have you had any problem with cracking on the exhaust manifold.
Most of the lt1 swaps use the stock water pump.. The exhaust manifolds are polished cast iron ram horns from a small block chevy... i had sanderson cc90 headers but i got tired of welding the cracks every mounth.... Chuck
sanderson is the headers that i have heard about cracking. I welded my exhaust on my '87 from 180 and 90 degree pieces and bought my muffler from spintech. So the exhaust is no big deal. But I didn't know about what to do with the exhaust manifold yet. I'll visit a junk yard
------------------ 2002 trans am,1994 trans am, 1986 iroc z-28, 1985 fiero,1987 gt fiero
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08:30 AM
Mr. Pat Member
Posts: 1860 From: Melbourne, VIC Australia Registered: Apr 2003
Its a 4t60-e out of a caddy deville. I used it because I didnt want any tranny problems. If and when it does break I can update to a 4t65 ehd. Which is the strongest fwd tranny next to the 4t80. Ive beaten the sh1t out of it, and its worked flawlessly. Look at my build page, there is a sh1t ton of info on there.
------------------ 1986 GT, LT1/4T60E. In the middle of cam/port, new interior, paint and waiting on new wheels. Itll blow you away!! http://hometown.aol.com/ptfiero/index.html build http://dtcc.cz28.com/Customer/LT1Fiero/index.htm
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Thats about it. You'll have more fun with the LT1, but the 5 speed wont last if you have too much fun..jpg)
