quote Originally posted by F355spider: I do not know if this is true or not but I was told WCF is using your setup for the kit and you get a kick back on it. If I was told wrong let me know if not it explains a lot. I disagree with you again. I think the Fiero steers great and I am sure others think the same. The only reason I want the power steering is the fact that I am running 9" wide rims on the front and 10.5" wide rims on the back and need a little assist other than that I would not waste my time on it.

I let several people drive my car just to show them why I chose power steering. I am not going to brag about some thing then hide it from people so they don't see the flaws. I got an overwhelmingly positive response from every person that drove my car. And if you were around here I would let you drive it too. Do not confuse the different power steering racks. The Corvette rack came in two ratios. The "standard" rack that is basically has the same ratio as the "F" body and the "sport" rack or some times called the ZR1 rack. The sport rack has the very fast ratio. The F body rack or Fire Bird/Camaro WS6 rack is a PERFECT ratio for the Fiero, I know, I have one in my 88GT. Don't knock what you never tried. To call my power steering Twitchy is going beyond reason if you never drove the car for your self. We all do things for our own reasons and I did power steering for the faster ratio, not so much for extra boost. BUT to get better ratio in my Fiero I needed to add assit for two reasons. 1 No other reasonably priced manual rack exists that I can put in my Fiero. 2 the extra effort caused by the faster ratio would have been a drag to drive. So I got a WS6 power steering rack off of E Bay for $50+ shipping and installed in my Fiero. Turns out it was a perfect ratio for the 88 Fiero and feels great. But it is not perfect, it has draw backs so I looked into the Corvette rack for a "better " rack. And I think the Vette rack has fewer draw backs.

I know the guys at WCF but we never discussed power steering as a business relationship. I never put power steering into a pre88 Fiero (some day I may do it) WCF does not offer an 88 power steering kit, yet. And no they do not have any thing in common with any thing I have done (as far as I know ). So no they are not using "my set up" They use a totally different way of mounting the rack and pre88 Fieros have different racks so would require different adapters for the rack. I like WCF and think what they are doing is cool. I would have no problem with assisting them with power steering if they asked. But they never asked and they developed a system on there own. Besides, just about the entire swap for the F body and Corvette is on this forum. I just never posted any precise dimensions. WCF is free to copy any thing I post on PFF, just like you and any one else is. If some one does copy any thing I did, I would like some type of credit, and no that does not mean money. WCF has never paid me any kick backs, and I have never provided any service to them that would deserve payment.


This is my last post in this thread, thanks for your comments.

Folks:

I would like to add a few comments here too.

The first WCF power steering kit is on my car and I had to cajole WCF into researching various ways it could be done and I can assure you that it is based on their own ideas and engineering. They did use the same SS Camaro rack as Rick used. The similarity ends there. The idea behind the kit was to provide a cheap, simple starting point for the more knowledgeable mechanic to use to get the key metrics in place before they added the balance of the required parts and labor to build their own. The larger kit contains more stuff to help the average DIYer, get the job done quickly and cleanly; I do not know exactly what Chris West plans to include, but here are some words from his site:

“The power steering rack bolts into the stock location with the adapter. The stock Fiero steering columns bolts directly to the new rack. Adapters are used to connect the Fiero tie rods to the new power steering rack. This kit does not come with the engine driven power steering pump. The power steering pump needs to be already on the motor. For the 2.8 engines, power steering pump mount brackets are currently in development. The power steering system and brackets for the 88 Fiero are also currently in development.”

We will have the car running shortly and we will tell you how it works out!

Also, part of the reason for putting power steering on my car is that we are building what we believe to be the worlds first 3.4 Liter DOHC 24-Valve Turbo attached to an electronically shifted 4T80E transmission with radio controlled paddle shifters behind a 12.5” steering wheel, Vette/Viper 13” disc brakes all around, and WCF coil over suspension. Sure hope nobody has beaten me to this combo. I will follow up with a build thread after it is finished (maybe by West Fest).

You can see the car as far as it is completed this weekend and a bunch of other nice Fieros at the:
West Coast Fiero/FierosWest Barbecue
Saturday, May 13, 2006
From 9:00AM Till?
West Coast Fiero
13445 Beach Avenue
Marina Del Rey, CA 90292
Phone: 310.305.4111
Hope to see you there!!
Please Call 310.305.4111 to RSVP

quote Originally posted by Rickady88GT: I let several people drive my car just to show them why I chose power steering. I am not going to brag about some thing then hide it from people so they don't see the flaws. I got an overwhelmingly positive response from every person that drove my car. And if you were around here I would let you drive it too. Do not confuse the different power steering racks. The Corvette rack came in two ratios. The "standard" rack that is basically has the same ratio as the "F" body and the "sport" rack or some times called the ZR1 rack. The sport rack has the very fast ratio. The F body rack or Fire Bird/Camaro WS6 rack is a PERFECT ratio for the Fiero, I know, I have one in my 88GT. Don't knock what you never tried. To call my power steering Twitchy is going beyond reason if you never drove the car for your self. We all do things for our own reasons and I did power steering for the faster ratio, not so much for extra boost. BUT to get better ratio in my Fiero I needed to add assit for two reasons. 1 No other reasonably priced manual rack exists that I can put in my Fiero. 2 the extra effort caused by the faster ratio would have been a drag to drive. So I got a WS6 power steering rack off of E Bay for $50+ shipping and installed in my Fiero. Turns out it was a perfect ratio for the 88 Fiero and feels great. But it is not perfect, it has draw backs so I looked into the Corvette rack for a "better " rack. And I think the Vette rack has fewer draw backs. I know the guys at WCF but we never discussed power steering as a business relationship. I never put power steering into a pre88 Fiero (some day I may do it) WCF does not offer an 88 power steering kit, yet. And no they do not have any thing in common with any thing I have done (as far as I know ). So no they are not using "my set up" They use a totally different way of mounting the rack and pre88 Fieros have different racks so would require different adapters for the rack. I like WCF and think what they are doing is cool. I would have no problem with assisting them with power steering if they asked. But they never asked and they developed a system on there own. Besides, just about the entire swap for the F body and Corvette is on this forum. I just never posted any precise dimensions. WCF is free to copy any thing I post on PFF, just like you and any one else is. If some one does copy any thing I did, I would like some type of credit, and no that does not mean money. WCF has never paid me any kick backs, and I have never provided any service to them that would deserve payment. This is my last post in this thread, thanks for your comments.

I wish I could drive your car I have heard you have built an awesome car and are one of or the first to master the North* style set up in the Fiero. I agree with you also about power steering so please if you took me the wrong way I apologize. I also never called your car twitchy but a short wheelbase with fast ratio will be. All this and no one has yet to answer my question of why the heck would a power steering kit for a car that already has rack in pinion steering cost so much you can get power rack kits for cars that did not come with it like a 1920s or 1930s cars for $399 or at the most I have found for cars from the 1950s or 1960s for $799 this includes all the hardware, Rack, hoses ect. I love it when people offer a kit to help but I hate it because for some reason they want to rape Fiero owners and this is something I have only seen in the Fiero community. I took the day off and plan to start looking for the perfect rack for me today and I hope to make a set up that will be no more than 400 bucks or that is my goal.
Again I did not intend to make anyone angry just wanted to express my concerns and questions and a different view on it.

F355spider:

I wish you luck today on your quest for the perfect rack and a $400 kit cost.

If you keep good, honest records of all your time and all materials, I wonder what its real direct cost will be.

Now also, imagine that you are in business to make a living and you can either be making power steering kits or making some other thing that takes the same amount of time and effort; how does that affect the price you would charge somebody else.

Then also consider that you have the overhead of a machine shop in California and a payroll to meet; how will that affect your final price.

Then ask yourself at the end of the project, what would you charge someone else to do it again? And again, and again at your customers call and back it with your name. And pack it for shipping, too.

My guess is that WCF’s pricing will become much clearer and for those of us who do not have the time, equipment or talent to do such projects from scratch, the price is well worth it. I think this goes for most aftermarket stuff.

Regards,

David

quote Originally posted by Durkin87Turbo3.4 DOH: Now also, imagine that you are in business to make a living and you can either be making power steering kits or making some other thing that takes the same amount of time and effort; how does that affect the price you would charge somebody else. Then also consider that you have the overhead of a machine shop in California and a payroll to meet; how will that affect your final price. Then ask yourself at the end of the project, what would you charge someone else to do it again? And again, and again at your customers call and back it with your name. And pack it for shipping, too. My guess is that WCF’s pricing will become much clearer and for those of us who do not have the time, equipment or talent to do such projects from scratch, the price is well worth it. I think this goes for most aftermarket stuff.

David- I don't think anyone is really questioning why the cost of the kit is so high, but rather what is included for each price (the difference between the mounting kit and the full system is leaves a lot of space for wondering).

I think what we'd really like to see is a detailed list of what is included for each price

OK after a long day and a good debate here I decided the 97 Camaro or as said here the F body rack is the best choice. I got a rebuilt one from Auto Zone today for $139.99 with a lifetime warranty. I also have a part number list and price tally going on my how to thread. Thanks guys for all the help and you can see my progress here. http://www.diyfiero.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=562#562

Cannot get your thread open.

F355: I agree, with Durkin, I can't get your forum open, either...

Bob

It is not my Forum but it does seem to be down. A lot of people think it belongs to me but it does not. I like it because it is dedicated to what I believe in. I also have it on my web site http://www.autobodyconcept.com/powersteeringfiero.html