The 4.3 CPI engine is what powers my Bravada. I am pleased with its pep in a 4x4 SUV, so it should be slightly more fun in a fiero.
The ground rules: The engine will remain stock and retain the CPI - no performance upgrades (I already have Fieros with a SBC and a 4.5 Cadillac V8) AC will be retained. It will have a 4 speed auto (undecided on TV vs. electronic control). Engine will by poly mounted in the 4 corners. The adapter plate is a Z-style. Cost will be kept to a minimum.
The lucky fiero is an 88 base model coupe I picked up for $800 with a rod knock.
The engine is a 93 4.3 Vortec CPI from an Astro van. I purchased the running engine for $250. Since I took it out, I was able to get everything I need and then some!
The stock belt drive is just about 5 1/2" from the water pump flange on the block. This should fit within the fiero frame rails without cutting, but that is not the route I am going.
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06:54 PM
PFF
System Bot
fieroguru Member
Posts: 12134 From: Champaign, IL Registered: Aug 2003
In order to keep the cost of this swap down, I needed an inexpensive adapter plate. The Z-kit is not very popular so it can be picked up very cheap. Here is the adapter plate i will be using - purchased for $50.
Here is the wiring harness and the original accessory drive. The brackets are nice, but I don't think the AC and Alternator sitting on top of the engine will clear the deck lid spring or the strut tower. The brackets are nice, but I don't think the AC and Alternator sitting on top of the engine will clear the decklid spring or the strut tower. I will be retaining the AC and the alternator for the swap.
That's it for now.
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07:03 PM
Russ544 Member
Posts: 2136 From: S.W. Oregon Registered: Jun 2003
I'm doing a 4.3 swap myself too, out of a 88 van, I have ordered a intake to put a carb on, i will go stock for now, i have another block to build up later. I like the clearnce and still plenty of power from a 4.3. I'm going to get the engine this weekend and start to work on it soon. I had planed on using a short shaft water pump. I'm not sure if the stock accy's would fit? I just figured I would make my own alternator mount and use a surpintine belt drive. I have a archie(style) adapter plate. So I have to use a remote oil adapter and the powermaster starter. I'm searching for a 86-92 manual flywheel out of a cammaro with a 350 or 305, and will drill and tap a new clutch bolt pattern in. I'm going carb because you can get alot more power out of it with a big cam installed.
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01:38 AM
fieroguru Member
Posts: 12134 From: Champaign, IL Registered: Aug 2003
My computer and cable modem at home got fried on Sunday, so I am technically challanged this week. I ordered the nissan starter and ring gear. My plan is to convert the stock 4.3 flex plate to the nissan ring gear and will document how I do it.
quote
Originally posted by fiero87GTSB: I had planed on using a short shaft water pump. I'm not sure if the stock accy's would fit? I just figured I would make my own alternator mount and use a surpintine belt drive.
I will be documenting the accessory drive on mine once I get to that stage. The one thing I know is that is will be a serpentine setup with a short waterpump.
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01:23 PM
jstricker Member
Posts: 12956 From: Russell, KS USA Registered: Apr 2002
I like the 4.3 Vortecs but that CPI is really a PITA and incredibly expensive to fix when they break. If it never gives you trouble then I'm sure you'll be happy with the swap once it's done. You got the plate cheap enough and you're right, you won't have room on the top for the accesories. You're going to have to fab yourself up some mounts for them or call Archie and see if he'll sell you his front plate. The motor mounts shouldn't be that hard to work out on the 4.3. Should be interesting. Good luck.
John Stricker
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02:56 PM
vortecfiero Member
Posts: 996 From: Toronto Area, Canada Registered: Feb 2002
been there did that about 4 years ago.... awsum engine 200 HP @ 4500 260ft/lbs @ 3500
I would be glad to answer any questions on the transplant the cooliest hop up is to open the intake plenum tuning door 500 rpm sooner and close it 500 rpm later than stock settings if you have a less restrictive exhaust the cpi ecm cuts the ignition at approx 180 kph.. and i have a trick for that too i have all kinds of pics of my install... let me know what you are thinking.. maybe i can save you some time, money and stress ie: use 2 drivers side center dump exhaust manifold.. it makes life easier use the fire wall plug from the vehicle you got the engine from.. it fits and it has about 25 % more wires in it... perfect for guages etc
FYI the CPI cam almost has the same specs as a Performer cam
84 Fiero Turbo Vortec 4300 Phantom GT L35 block, Syclone Intake and ECM with Moates adapter 50lb injectors, 3 bar map sens, T04B H3 Turbo
87 GT just waiting for the conversion
www.cardomain.com/id/vortecfiero Murphy's Constant Matter will be damaged in direct proportion to its value Murphy's Law of Thermodynamics Things get worse under pressure. Arthur C. Clarke "Any significantly advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"
[This message has been edited by vortecfiero (edited 04-05-2006).]
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08:43 PM
Apr 8th, 2006
fieroguru Member
Posts: 12134 From: Champaign, IL Registered: Aug 2003
Originally posted by vortecfiero: I would be glad to answer any questions on the transplant the cooliest hop up is to open the intake plenum tuning door 500 rpm sooner and close it 500 rpm later than stock settings if you have a less restrictive exhaust the cpi ecm cuts the ignition at approx 180 kph.. and i have a trick for that too i have all kinds of pics of my install... let me know what you are thinking.. maybe i can save you some time, money and stress ie: use 2 drivers side center dump exhaust manifold.. it makes life easier
Thanks for offering info! I will take you up on that as I make more progress. Do you burn your own chips for this? I was planning to use 2 DS manifolds but I have not confirmed that the rear one will clear the 4t440 tranny (2 DS LT1 manifolds will clear the 4t440 on a SBC).
Well my ring gear and starter are here, I have just been doing all the measuring for the flexplate. I hope to have my computer fixed (or a new one) next week so I can take more pics.
If you are going to use an auto trans, you may not be able to use the Astro exhaust manifold on the back side head. I am putting a 4.3 in my '88 with the 3 spd auto and found that I had to use the original 4.3 left side manifold on the right side (back side in a Fiero) with the outlet toward the right side of the car to clear the extension from the trans. On the manual transmissions, this is not a problem. If your trans has this extension, it may not fit. If it will fit, I now have an extra Astro manifold I'll sell you cheap!
Good luck and keep up with the pictures. It's good to see something different on the forum. Egor.
------------------ ____________________________________________ "Of all the things I have lost during my lifetime, I miss my mind the most."
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02:35 PM
Apr 9th, 2006
vortecfiero Member
Posts: 996 From: Toronto Area, Canada Registered: Feb 2002
Thanks for offering info! I will take you up on that as I make more progress. Do you burn your own chips for this? I was planning to use 2 DS manifolds but I have not confirmed that the rear one will clear the 4t440 tranny (2 DS LT1 manifolds will clear the 4t440 on a SBC).
Well my ring gear and starter are here, I have just been doing all the measuring for the flexplate. I hope to have my computer fixed (or a new one) next week so I can take more pics.
Im using the stock 7749 ecm out of the syclone now... and Promgrammer $10 for a bin editor i will use a Romulator $75 and a laptop emulate my chips till im finished the '7749 will run anything from 2 to 12 cylinders and with Datamaster $120 and a laptop to data log all the engine functions on the 7749 I will be set (datamaster will also data log the CPI engine as well)
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06:28 PM
Apr 11th, 2006
fiero87GTSB Member
Posts: 34 From: winnipeg,manitoba,canada Registered: Dec 2004
I have just got my 86 van with a good running 4.3 so I plan on doing a stock swap to start with, I found a 153 tooth fly wheel and have already drill and tapped it. (work in a machine shop) So with the flywheel out of the way, I have to pull the engine, and start to mount it up. What have others done for pullys, I have planned to fab my own bracket for the alternator, as all we need to run is the water pump too. I was thinking of putting in a tensioner but i may opt for the simple solution and have the altnator pivot in a slot.
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02:14 AM
Apr 29th, 2006
s550w Member
Posts: 747 From: Seymour, IN,USA Registered: Aug 2004
Has anybody made progress? I would like to know if the alternater and A/C on top will clear the decklid. I am garage deprived (Poor investment for where my house is) and would like to know if I could have a local shop get the engine in & allow me to do finishing work. I have a 4.3 CPI just waiting to be moved.
Well I have made some progress, but most of it was learning what would not fit!
The auto tranny will not allow either Van 4.3 manifold to work on the rear. The original Right manifold still needs to come down about 1" to meet with the bolts, but it is already sitting on the tranny case:
The original Left manifold is way too long to even get close to fitting:
The good news is that not all 4.3 manifolds are the same! The S10/pickup manifolds both right and left exited at the rear corner (just like the left one above). So an S10 left manifold should work fine for the rear (or Right) and clear everything and drop the exhaust down right above the exhaust pipe running along the PS cradle rail.
Here is a pic of a stock 4.3 153 tooth flex plate, a 4.3 153 tooth flex plate turned down to accept the 280 ZX 120 tooth ring rear and the new ring gear off to the side. If you are going with an auto, you want to make sure you get the 153 tooth ring gear to start with. The raised pads for the RWD torque converter have the bolt pattern towards the outer edge of the raised surface. This leaves plent of space for the smaller FWD bold pattern to be drilled on the same surfaces. The larger flywheel has the raised pads out too far to be used with a FWD converter.
[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 05-01-2006).]
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07:56 AM
s550w Member
Posts: 747 From: Seymour, IN,USA Registered: Aug 2004
It sounds like I'm a little fortunate that I have an S10. Is it possible I might just switch the exhaust manifolds and have it work? I do have a manual transmission. I assume you have not gotten to the point of checking top clearance to decklid yet?
Thanks,
Brian
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12:23 PM
fieroguru Member
Posts: 12134 From: Champaign, IL Registered: Aug 2003
Actually, I think the hot ticket is 2 left hand manifolds from either an S10 or full size truck. This will provide clearance to the starter solenoid on the left side and drop the exhaust clear of everything on the right side.
If you just flip them, then they will both dump at the front of the engine and that is not good for the alternator clearance.
When I get home I will try to throw the accessories back on an do some measuring from the bell housing surface on my SBC car to see where things will sit. I may be surprised, but I don't expect the stock accessory brackets to clear.
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02:58 PM
fieroguru Member
Posts: 12134 From: Champaign, IL Registered: Aug 2003
On my SBC car with an Archie manual adapter and the tranny shifted to the driver side about 3/4" there is close to 20" from the engine bell housing surface to the edge of the strut tower (88 car with the dog bone bracket removed). So 20" from the bell housing to the strut tower is a rough estimate, but this could vary on Auto vs. manual, adapter plate thickness, pre 88 to 88, etc.
The belt drive for the 4.3 is about 23" from the bell housing surface. The alternator sits above the rear valve cover (van engine) and it needs another 3" of strut tower clearance.
The AC compressor sits about 4.5 inches higher than the front valve cover and flush with the left edge of the valve cover. The stock deck list hinge is about 17 1/2 to 18" from the bell housing and clears the valve cover by about 3/16" and covers about 1/3 to 1/2 of the top of the valve cover. Using the stock AC location would lose just about all of the passenger deck lid hinge.
The stock water pump and pulley will clear the frame rail (but not by much), but that has everything pretty far from the block and could be difficult to work with since custom Alternator and AC brackets are pretty much a requirement at this point (at least for me).
I will be using a short water pump and keep the accessories as close to the engine as possible.
The intake is about and inch taller than the AC compressor and it looks like it will fit under the hood just fine (I still need to verify).
[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 05-01-2006).]
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07:54 PM
Russ544 Member
Posts: 2136 From: S.W. Oregon Registered: Jun 2003
I couldn't tell you what year manifolds I used but they seem to be quite common in local bone yards. I think the yard said they were used on early astro vans and some trucks. I used two L side units which are of stainless tubing construction. looking good Guru.
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08:56 PM
PFF
System Bot
s550w Member
Posts: 747 From: Seymour, IN,USA Registered: Aug 2004
I must admit to being confused. I thought I was asking about vertical, but I wonder if you answered horizontal. My "Victum" is an '86 coupe with a 4-speed manual. From cradle cross-member to decklid hinge point, I am estimating 24", Fom bell-housing to strut tower it is optimistic 25" but probably a little less. I am guessing 30" overall vertical including oil pan on the 4.3L. On my '87 4 cylinder, the oil pan is below the cradle bar by a noticeable amount. Not sure of net result here. My intake tube from air filter is highest point, A/C lines are almost equal. Very rough estimate with yardstick is that fan will need to be eliminated from water pump on engine in horizontal. Looking at my exhaust manifolds on 2001 S10, it appears the bracket might be close but after dark look see makes me wonder if they might clear everything else except the brackets if switched. They appear to have very short extensions at rear judging by passenger side. The picture you posted shows a different pipe than I am seeing. The steering column and brake booster are blocking my view on driver side. This thing had the "add air to exhaust" system that had gone South. I might need to spend money to find out the fit.
As I mentioned above, with an automatic you can use an Astro exhaust on the engine left side (the one against the firewall) and a truck LEFT side (in my case a Silverado) exhaust on the engine right side(the one against the trunk) to clear the auto. I'll try to find my camera and snap a few pictures. By the way, if you go with a stock 4.3 pulley, you will have to build a new accessories brackets for the A/C and alternator. I'm also using the stock tensioner, but in a new position.
Good luck and keep the pictures coming. Egor
------------------ ____________________________________________ "Of all the things I have lost during my lifetime, I miss my mind the most."
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10:35 AM
Raydar Member
Posts: 40747 From: Carrollton GA. Out in the... country. Registered: Oct 1999
This may be useful for the accessory mounting... I used to have a V8 Monza 2+2. If you look up "shoehorned" in the dictionary, it would have a picture of that installation. The Monza water pump and accessory mounts were the shortest I've ever seen on a SBC. The alternator was mounted top-dead-center and still cleared the Monza's sloping hood. They are probably difficult to come by, but maybe not. They use V-belts, BTW.
a 4-speed manual. From cradle cross-member to decklid hinge point, I am estimating 24", Fom bell-housing to strut tower it is optimistic 25" but probably a little less. I am guessing 30" overall vertical including oil pan on the 4.3L. On my '87 4 cylinder, the oil pan is below the cradle bar by a noticeable amount. Not sure of net result here. My intake tube from air filter is highest point, A/C lines are almost equal. Very rough estimate with yardstick is that fan will need to be eliminated from water pump on engine in horizontal. Looking at my exhaust manifolds on 2001 S10, it appears the bracket might be close but after dark look see makes me wonder if they might clear everything else except the brackets if switched. They appear to have very short extensions at rear judging by passenger side. The picture you posted shows a different pipe than I am seeing. The steering column and brake booster are blocking my view on driver side. This thing had the "add air to exhaust" system that had gone South. I might need to spend money to find out the fit. 
