Again, looking at engine options out there (I don't think there's one I haven't looked at yet ), I decided to see what I could get performance-wise for the 'stock' engine. Stock in this case meaning using the same block and displacement, but getting the best internals, heads, exhaust, and intake possible, then going for boost, and seeing what the total cost would be (just for giggles). In my search for a forged crankshaft, I found out gm parts direct has a bow tie aluminum block (link has details). Weighs 47 pounds less than stock! And for the low low price of ~$3k. My question is does anyone know anything more about this block or have any experiences with it? And other than weight, how much advantage is it (would the heat dissipation help that much)?

You should get a million responces on that thing---Iv`e had alot of folks want me to buy them with a discount from GM for them...Hang on its going to get good....

Discount, eh?

If you guys did a group buy --it would probally be a heck of alot less. I don`t make anything on them, may be able to swing some kinda of shipping with them as well.. Would someone tell me how you get the faces & rolling eyes in the text box ???

Click over <------- there, is text saying "Similes Legend" (In your reply box)

Is that what you were looking for? hehhe I was also thinking about this, I have chevrolet connections up here though.

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[This message has been edited by Custom2M4 (edited 04-01-2006).]

No one knows anything?
I know at least one person on here has it...how about some pics?

Group buy?
I'm listening

I wonder if this works

I have an aluminum 2.8 block, but it is not the bowtie block. Shaun41178(2) .......gasp......... I said his name over here, he has one, uses it as a cyl head rack for the time being. What do you want to know? Its light, closed deck, steel sleeves, 4 bolt main, costs 3k, and dosent have removable lifter galleries, so going dohc would be damn near impossible even if you made the heads work. Its the block to get if you wanna build a really expensive engine. If you get a forged 2.8 crank, you will not have a crank reluctor ring on it, and therefore would need to run an external one. donk316....................gasp again............................ has a way to get some nasty parts from falconer racing who built this block to over 700hp. like dry sump setups, intakes.... etc. I hope you like spending money.

the better way would be to go with a roller 3.4 block, aluminum gen 2/3 heads and boost it. I know of some people currently working on this type of project turbogt ...............................Im not sure if he posts here...........................

Im willing to help you as much as I can. I think Im the only one on the forum running an aluminum 2.8 at this time, but my block is completly different, and wont help you any. I can tell you though that shaving nearly 100lbs off my cars back end makes it a lot of fun to drive. here are some pics of my block. 39lbs aluminum sleeves, removable lifter bores, open deck, 2 bolt mains, timeserted head bolts. http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/p8ntman442/album?.dir=/fd0c&.src=ph

No, I was always wondering about how to do that --but seriously on the bowtie I think the guy you would want to talk with is Indiana_resto_guy he knows alot about them, if you guys want discounts on them , put something thoghter & throw it at me, I`ll run it by the Gm guns and see what happens, quanity is always a bargain tool, along with Gm discount ohhh thanks again for showing me how to do these little guys LMK

Ignore this post if you have your heart set on an aluminum -->60 degree<-- v6...
But if you're looking for an aluminum v6, the shortstar is gonna be easier to get ahold of...

I hate to add a negative post here because i would love to have an all aluminum 2.8 in my Fiero but...............................................for the price of the aluminum block that is being mentioned here you could own a low mileage short* complete with computer and wire harnest, or even the big boy N*. And those can be made to pull to ignorent RPS very easy and put down good HP at the wheels with some boost.
All aluminum 2.8, I would be in the group buy, but for the price, I would rather spend my money elsewhere. Sorry for the negative comments, but those prices are waaaaaaaay too high for what you get compared to what you can have for the same amount.

quote Originally posted by fierogt88: Ignore this post if you have your heart set on an aluminum -->60 degree<-- v6... But if you're looking for an aluminum v6, the shortstar is gonna be easier to get ahold of...

This was just to get some more info, I'm not dead set on getting it. p8ntman442, you got a nice block there, I wouldn't mind knowing more about it. There's just something that gets to me about any particular engine being labelled a 'boat anchor': I want to root for the underdog, say to the nay-sayers "oh yeah?!" There's nothing inherently bad about any particular displacement. Basically you can get anything to be a high performance level if you throw enough money at it. So it instead becomes a game of how much you want to spend. I don't want to spend any more than I have to to get something I am happy with. I, like most on here I imagine, don't have cash burning a hole in my pocket.

Yes, I agree $3k for a block is excessive from my point of view, but I also see blocks go for more. When I look at it as a complete package, though, it seems to come out in the end about the same as most swaps out there. Every swap needs some level of fabrication added to it. The less fab expense, the more you can spend on the engine. I plan on boosting in some form or another no matter what engine is put in it, so I want to be sure whatever level I use the engine can hold. That immediately throws out all the 'cheap stuff', with a minimum rebuild using better parts. The two extremes would be a) building up a direct bolt-in engine with as much high performance stuff as possible, or b) find some engine that will hit whatever performance level I am looking for stock, and figure out how to fabricate it in. I'm asking questions and soaking up as much info as I can because I'm not sure where on that line I fall yet.

I appreciate everyone's input and thoughts so far

turbo roller 3400 is bolt up. so is a turbo 3.4 tdc either way your looking at good performance with minimal fabbing.

i'm rooting for the boat anchor too. some people enjoy seeing how far they can take a specific package and it is not all about the most HP at that point. bang for the buck only matters up to the point you can't afford the next level. i highly doubt a lamborghini driver cares that a boosted 3800 swapped Fiero might be as fast as his car in a straight line.

anyone can buy the easiest HP, it takes creativity and charisma to go another route. some want to say i have the fastest 2.8 Fiero out there, is that bad, i think not. i can take any lightweight car and shoehorn an engine of your choice into it and go fast, it's an old formula.

3 grand could get you a 2.8 saab alloy DOHC turbo motor

Saab 9-3 Saloon 2.8T Aero 4dr -

250bhp/258lb ft from new turbo V6
I have a theory that a car always performs best on its home ground. The roads on which it was developed and which the company engineers use every day will always give the most flattering impression of a car’s abilities.

So where better for Saab to show off its new 250bhp V6-powered flagship 9-3 than on the roads around its Trollhattan HQ? Indeed, the steely grey eminence of the Saab factory seemed to be permanently on the horizon (which may have said more about the lamentably short test route than the size of the factory).

Although it generally prefers to use turbocharged four-cylinder engines, Saab does have a record of using V6 engines from parent company General Motors. Both the 900 and 9000 had the option of a V6 motor, and early in the life of the 9-5, a highly unusual ‘asymmetrically turbocharged’ V6 was on the options list (which is where it stayed).

Saab’s determinedly independent attitude meant that the current 9-3 wasn’t offered with the V6 engine, relying instead on its famously punchy four-cylinder units. You get the feeling that Saab would have been happy to continue to tweak its core engines had it not been for overwhelming market demands.

Saab engineers say that six-cylinder engines make up just 20 per cent of the European market for medium-size luxury cars like the 9-3. In the US, however, the ‘entry luxury’ market is dominated by the demand for six-cylinder engines. And with the transatlantic market so important, a big motor is vital.

The new engine

The 2.8-litre turbo unit is based on GM’s new ‘global’ V6 architecture, which will also be the basis for next-generation V6 Opel and Alfa Romeo engines. Although much of the development work was carried out by Holden in Australia, Saab says it was closely involved during the ‘conceptual design and development’, mainly because Saab is GM’s centre of excellence for turbocharging.

The all-aluminium 24-valve V6 powerplant has four chain-driven camshafts, the inlet camshaft getting electronically controlled variable valve timing. Saab says the cylinder heads are unique to its version of the V6. Also unique are the pistons (which are cooled from underneath by jets of oil) and the sintered steel conrods.

It gets a high-tech manifold, too. Double skinned and hydroformed (bent into shape by massive water pressure) with stainless steel liners, it is said to help reduce cold-start emissions.

But most distinctive of all is the turbocharger’s installation. A single, twin-scroll water-cooled Mitsubishi unit, it is mounted on the right of the engine above the transmission. Two separate inlet tracts feed it, one from each bank of cylinders. As the exhaust gas pulses alternate between each cylinder bank, the turbo’s twin scrolls get alternating blasts of exhaust gas.

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Question wonder and be wierd
are you kind?

Spending $3k on a block isn't a big deal. To that person its not about hp per dollar. Its about being different. I mean P8intman is of a few that can claim they have an all aluminum 2.8 motor in their Fiero. So while the rest drool about it, he enjoys driving it knowing not many if any share what he has. Thats what you are spending your money on.

Sure you could spend $3k on a N star motor, or Short star. But then you are stuck with the swap aspect and more money spent. Straight bolt in as far as I know if you go bowtie.

p8ntman442 i would like to see some more info on your engine if you don't mind

thanks

kwagner PM Sent............

The aluminuim block will save wight and help in the cars handeling but will not make any more power for you if they have a bowtie iron block it will be just as strong or stronger if you are after HP work on the heads the more you can get them to flow efficantly the more power you will make and buy a good crank rods and pistons so it will stay together

[This message has been edited by engine man (edited 04-07-2006).]

so the aluminum block is a bolt in? i.e you could transfer your existing fiero heads, internals, accesorries to it and be done. obviously you would use new internals if you went this far, but I am more asking is the a "True" bolt in. Not yes, but you need to modify this that and the other.

slight bum in compression and cam, with 100 lb weight reduction could be nice.

Its a straight bolt in as far as I heard.

OK, on my motor, its in and running but not registered so I have only about 30 miles on it since the swap and about 5 hrs run time. The block came from a classmate whos uncle bought it many years ago from a gm test facility somwhere in massachussets (deeham or needham) It was freshly rebuilt and was wrapped in plastic for the last 6 years. New GM rings and cyl wall hatching. The heads are aluminum castings of the early 2.8 heads, with the small valves. The block also used a rope seal rear main, which I replaced with a felpro rubber unit, but that dates the block to pre '84. From the rumors that came with the block, it was turboed at the facility making some serious power, and they were breaking cranks. Take that as only what I have heard. The block came with standard pistons. The total weight is 39 lbs empty. It has provisions for a block mounted mechanical fuel pump. The only other instance I have ever seen or heard of this motor was The Punisher had one with the same heads, and sold it. For cheap. Unfortunatly he was banned and all his knowledge is over on the other site, along with a lot of other knowledge. (why cant we take back ratings of people who have been banned? people do change, including those who rate a member off.)

Anyways, A while back there was someone who did one of these Building a 2.8 whos with me threads. I think the result was that a lot of money was spent, and the motor was a dud. The 2.8 is a waste of time and money. With a 3k bowtie, you can atleast trust the block, mains and oiling for some reliable big hp numbers. But the machining to do such an engine would surpass 3k real quick.

Thanks for the info

thanks for the info, thats an interesting engine, just in history alone.

Its an aluminum 60 degree block from GM, chances are its a RWD block, meaning it still has to be modified to fit our cars. With the starter relocation. Is that still drop in? Depends on how you think of it. Now if you want to run an aluminum intake from the 3.4's then you need to use the aluminum intake as well as fuel injection. Then you get into the wiring, and all the other aspects of an engine swap. Not making it entirely a drop in project. To me not going all out is a waste, why spend 3k on an aluminum block and stamp some bulky iron heads on the thing. Might as well have used the stock block.

An engine swap is a swap... Doesn't really matter what it is, lots of things turn a swap from a 3,000 dollar investment to a 5,000 dollar investment. Its all a matter of choice and opinion of the owner. Having an aluminum 3.4? a 3.5, a 4.0, a 4.5 the choices are end less with these cars.

quote Originally posted by Custom2M4: Its an aluminum 60 degree block from GM, chances are its a RWD block, meaning it still has to be modified to fit our cars. With the starter relocation. Is that still drop in? Depends on how you think of it. .

How about I think you are wrong Did you even read the link in the first post? It has bosses for both fwd and rwd. Which makes it a straight bolt in. Don't be hating because you can't afford it. Stick to what you know; Taping Dodge caravan parts to your Fiero.

Nice, lets pick some internet fights. I am not going to waste my time with you as I have more taping of caravan parts to do. Sigh some people...

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quote Originally posted by Custom2M4: im sorry, I was wrong, it is ready to bolt up. Swap in some 2nd gen pistons and put on 2nd gen aluminum heads, with their respective intakes,and plug it back into the wiring harness. Gee I guess im wrong.

glad to hear you admit it.