quote Originally posted by jscott1: Next time we are in the same timezone I'll let you drive mine. It's no 3800SC, but for what it is...(a cheap easy to swap V8) it get's the job done. If you want to do endless mods and build an 11 sec drag car, the 4.9 is not for you. But for normal daily driving on the street, my 4.9 is quieter at idle than the 2.8 V6, but once you get on it, it wakes up and pulls like a train until you let off. You can't beat the bang for the buck with the 4.9 in my opinion.

Yup, that's the idea. Besides, my superduty 4 cylinder with race modified 5 speed will be for going fast and hard.

Precisely. The 4.9 will give you at least a 50% hp increase over the stock 2.8 with Cadillac reliability and smoothness. It has good punch when you want it but is absolutely great for cruising.

I just drove Dan's car about 100 miles yesterday (BTW Dan, your transmission is TOAST!!) (OK, j/k, it shifted fine and worked good, I just had to mess with you a little). To monitor things I plugged in my scanner. It was just under 80 degrees yesterday here with a 45 mph wind blowing. With the wind or against it, didn't matter. Coolant temps stayed between 89 and 91°C (195°F). At 70 mph the engine is barely above idle at 1800 rpm and the exhaust note just kind of burbles along behind you. Drop it down a gear to pass and you're going through 90 before you clear the other car for all practical purposes.

I do recommend getting rockcrawl to burn you a chip, even with Ed's harness. He eliminates the VATS, eliminates the speed limiter, and recalibrates for the tires you're running and whatever transmission is going in with the car.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Yup, that's the idea. Besides, my superduty 4 cylinder with race modified 5 speed will be for going fast and hard.

quote Originally posted by jstricker: I just drove Dan's car about 100 miles yesterday (BTW Dan, your transmission is TOAST!!) (OK, j/k, it shifted fine and worked good, I just had to mess with you a little). John Stricker

Your a cruel cruel man John Glad to here it's running good. Now if that chip would ever show up we'd be all set.

Dan

I have 5 Fiero based replica's 3 with 4.9/4T60E's and 2 with 3800SCII w/4T65E's The aftermarket performance parts are plentuful for the 3800 not the 4.9. I prefer the 3800's on speed and acceleration however I love the sound, smoothness and overall ride of the 4.9 based cars. I think they are both great engines for Fiero's. Up to about 85mph they are all about even after that the 3800's rip. Again they are both great conversions. I have to admit the whine of the SC on the 3800's is awesome! Take care. Bill

[This message has been edited by aa2uk (edited 04-01-2006).]

The chip is here and in. I took it over and had it aligned and we had it pretty close here in the shop, the thrust angle was off by over 1/2 degree but most everything else just took tweaking. I really need to get a better way to align the cars here in my shop. We went through it this morning and performed the idle set and learn procedure as it was a little off on the idle with your chip in there.

So far I've driven the car about 250 miles and no real issues. I don't know how fast it runs, your speedo only goes to 120. (j/k, .........or am I??)

A few final checks and it's good to leave back to Iowa tomorrow. Psycho will miss Tweety though..........

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by DanFiero: Your a cruel cruel man John Glad to here it's running good. Now if that chip would ever show up we'd be all set. Dan

quote Originally posted by jstricker: So far I've driven the car about 250 miles and no real issues. I don't know how fast it runs, your speedo only goes to 120. (j/k, .........or am I??) A few final checks and it's good to leave back to Iowa tomorrow. Psycho will miss Tweety though.......... John Stricker

Oh yeah

Sounds good John!! Your one person I would trust to take it up to speed as I know of your racing experience I'm still planning on heading out around 7:30 so we should be there by 4:30 if all goes well.

Dan

[This message has been edited by DanFiero (edited 04-05-2006).]

Let me say that I know little about engine swaps, but when you notch the trans case for the starter, doesn't that let dirt, water, etc. into the trans ?

quote Originally posted by PaulJK: Let me say that I know little about engine swaps, but when you notch the trans case for the starter, doesn't that let dirt, water, etc. into the trans ?

On swaps where they use the stock fiero manual tranny I believe that is what they ado and the notch looks like it only goes into the bell part of the housing and not near the internals. Here is a picture of a notch someone else did:

and a pic of one on an engne:

I'm using the stock 4T60E Caddy tranny so there is no need to notch the housing

Dan

[This message has been edited by DanFiero (edited 04-06-2006).]

Thanks , DanFiero for the pics --man I was way off of what I was thinking they did---now I know..

OHHHHHHH ..... now I see ! Sounds like using the automatic caddy trans is without worry. Many thanks for clearing this up Fierobear, maybe we should take both our cars to see John There's only ONE guy I'd trust down here to do a swap, but he doesn't do 4.9s or 3800 S/C. Kansas isn't THAT far ...

[This message has been edited by PaulJK (edited 04-07-2006).]

Do the Caddy Bear, but make sure its the Port Fuel Injection 4.9, not the Throttle Body Injection 4.5. If you're gonna do the swap, you might as well do the best one. Probably still "easier" than a 3800SC. I tend to think of the 4.9 as a cruiser with power, whereas the 3800SC is your racing motor.

There are people who prefer riding Ninja's and there are people who prefer riding Harleys

Those who have the "Harley" personality would be most satisfied with the 4.9.

Both our Fieros will soon be equipped with 4.9's by the way. Miss Debbie drives the 85se 4.9/4t60e and when finished, I will be driving the 87gt 4.9 5spd.

Have fun-be safe
Jeff

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Proud Member of the North Florida Fiero club

4T60E Parks harness/ Rockcrawl chip-- more to come--

DanFiero, That engine is beautifull

That one's not Dan's, his is an automatic. This is his.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by 3800superfast: DanFiero, That engine is beautifull

Well that one is a nice clean one--whos engine is in the top pic ?

I believe that was Archie's build of a customer's 4.9 engine with a six speed trans attached.

I was a fan of the 3800 SC until I saw tha the 4.9 is the same weight as the stock 2.8 , even quieter than the stock 2.8 and has about hte smae mpg as the 3800SC. Sounds like just what the doctor ordered for a nice daily commute .

Beautiful engine, John. What are you gonna use to dress up the air cleaner ? IMHO the 4.9 air cleaner is the ugliest part of automotive equipment ever created ....

[This message has been edited by PaulJK (edited 04-07-2006).]

PaulJK, Thanks for the info----6 speed eehhh--I like the sound of that.

quote Originally posted by PaulJK: I believe that was Archie's build of a customer's 4.9 engine with a six speed trans attached. I was a fan of the 3800 SC until I saw tha the 4.9 is the same weight as the stock 2.8 , even quieter than the stock 2.8 and has about hte smae mpg as the 3800SC. Sounds like just what the doctor ordered for a nice daily commute . Beautiful engine, John. What are you gonna use to dress up the air cleaner ? IMHO the 4.9 air cleaner is the ugliest part of automotive equipment ever created ....

Please do not give Archie credit for that 4.9 it was not him that built that. He was the one that posted the picture of the cut out transmission bashing the 4.9 build and notching the transmission. I have seen a lot of 4.9 builds and never seen a transmission cut out like that. My personal opinion is he did it to try to make the swap look bad. He did not mention that you have to notch the transmission to install his adapter plate as he gets amnesia a lot when it comes to his stuff. Of all the swaps I have done I think the 4.9 is the best swap in the Fiero and I am in the process of doing a 3800 SC now at www.diyfiero.com I had to stop posting my builds here because Archie would jump in on them and talk trash and make up lies so I went to a place that will not allow that type of behavior. When I finish this swap I will be able to really compare the two.
OK about the Harley comment I own one and I also own a crotch rocket and I love the 4.9 in the Fiero

quote Originally posted by 3800superfast: DanFiero, That engine is beautifull

Sorry for the confusion, I was just posting the picture showing the notching of the tranny case. Didn't mean to claim it as mine

Dan

John,

Got back at 4:15 this morning.....man I love 22 hours of straight driving with a big ass grin on my face (Of course I walked in the house and totally collapsed.)

Dan

As I recall in the thread about the 6 speed with the 4.9, Archie showed that in disbelief that this was what people did to mount the 4.9 starter, not to necessarily make it look bad, just an example of a bad installation. When the other picture was posted he commented that looked much better. It also looks much better than the cutout on your install, IMHO.

But what the heck, it's just my opinion. As far as installing the adapter plate, I've done a SBC swap with an Archie kit and if there was any grinding done on the transmission, I don't remember it. You do have to grind the block a little on the small starter in some cases, but that's not on the transmission case. Maybe you can tell me where I have to notch the transmission? It is possible that I did it and forgot, or the yo-yo that tried putting it in the first time did it and I didn't notice it, but again, if that's the case it had to be very minor grinding.

I just finished my 4th 4.9 swap, I've done the 3.4L crate engine swap, and a SBC swap with an Archie kit. I have a donor sitting outside with a 3800 S1 that I'd like to stick in something some day, and a Northstar in pieces ready to put together in my shop. I don't care what swap anybody does, it's all good as far as I'm concerned, but you seem to have a bit of an agenda when it comes to Archie and you're doing the same thing here you accuse him of.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by F355spider: Please do not give Archie credit for that 4.9 it was not him that built that. He was the one that posted the picture of the cut out transmission bashing the 4.9 build and notching the transmission. I have seen a lot of 4.9 builds and never seen a transmission cut out like that. My personal opinion is he did it to try to make the swap look bad. He did not mention that you have to notch the transmission to install his adapter plate as he gets amnesia a lot when it comes to his stuff. Of all the swaps I have done I think the 4.9 is the best swap in the Fiero and I am in the process of doing a 3800 SC now at www.diyfiero.com I had to stop posting my builds here because Archie would jump in on them and talk trash and make up lies so I went to a place that will not allow that type of behavior. When I finish this swap I will be able to really compare the two. OK about the Harley comment I own one and I also own a crotch rocket and I love the 4.9 in the Fiero

Dan,

Glad to hear you made it back OK although I wouldn't have done that drive non-stop back the way you guys did. I'm getting too old for that crap. I bet your dad is zonked out somewhere.

Have fun and play safe.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by DanFiero: Sorry for the confusion, I was just posting the picture showing the notching of the tranny case. Didn't mean to claim it as mine Dan John, Got back at 4:15 this morning.....man I love 22 hours of straight driving with a big ass grin on my face (Of course I walked in the house and totally collapsed.) Dan

He actually slept a bit on the way back as I did all the driving (he's having some minor vision issues). I was in bed by 5 but up at 8:30 since I promised my son I'd give him a ride to school in Tweety if I got home in time.

It's always fun to watch your kid grab the door and the seat when you hit the gas pedal

Thanks again John and please tell Mike thank you for all the hard work he did in helping with the swap.

Dan

Archie also posted that he has a starter that can be used on a 4.9 swap that doesn't require a notched tranny case.

I didn't mean to imply that Archie built the 4.9. I guess I should have said that the pic showed Archie mating a six speed trans to a customer's 4.9 engine. I don't think Archie does 4.9 swaps; Personally when I think of Archie an image of an LT1 pops into my head .

P.S. There's No Way anyone can convince me that Archie would purposely do something to make a project "look bad"; he's too much of a stand-up guy to do that kinda thing.

Fierobear,

PM sent

4Point9: Did you sell your car ?

P.S. There's No Way anyone can convince me that Archie would purposely do something to make a project "look bad"; he's too much of a stand-up guy to do that kinda thing.[/QUOTE]

I guess you never read any of my build threads or all of the lies he tells people. I was not there but I heard he showed his true colors in Daytona also correct me if I am wrong. I also would like to see someone show me anywhere when he as helped out a non-paying costumer. Heck I was a paying costumer once and he did not treat me like others claim. I could not get crap for help. You have to notch out the trany to get one of the bolts in the adapter plate it is in the tape you get. I would also say that if you were a stand up guy if you say something that is not true and get proven wrong you will apologize like a real man. The starter he sells is a mini starter you can buy it anywhere and most don’t use it because the 4.9 starter works great and is a lot cheaper or you get it with the motor in most cases. Please tell me how I’m doing like him so I can stop: all my threads try to help people and I just pointed out the truth about the pictures just because I see the truth in someone and let it be known a lot of people try to put me down but show me one time I was not trying to help out others or not trying to put sugar on vinegar.

Hi Fierobear, what happen to this topic. I run the 4.9, but I am just a cruiser and I like the reliability of the engine. I will drive my car anywhere. If I build another Fiero I will go with a 3800sc and do a little drag racing with it, but back to fuel economy. I was running a 4 speed in my 85 SE and was turning too many RPMs at 70 MPH (around 2700) but still got 22 MPG. If you are going to use an automatic with your setup you will get 28 to 30 or better on the highway. But with a manual transmission I did not want a 5 speed so about 2 months my 4 speed was removed and was replaced with the G6 six speed. This was done by Archie. Now I am only turning 2100 RPMs at 70 MPH. My fuel mileage is up to 30 MPG.

I do not normally get into these things, but I will give F335spider credit for telling half the truth. First, that is my transmission sitting on the floor at Archie’s just the way it was taken off my engine. In his thread he stated in so many words that there should be a better way to do the starter on a manual transmission that cut the bell housing. I did not like it when (the original installer) the side of my bell housing was cut and was told that the way it's done.

Second, you can not go out and buy that starter. If you can there are a lot of members on here that would like the manufacturer and part number. I hope to get the pictures and the parts we used to build that starter and post it on here for anyone that wants to build one like that and not have to cut the bell housing. Please say nothing at all if you do not know the whole truth.

Sorry Fierobear to get off the subject, but build the car the way you want to, you are the one that will drive it. The best to you.

Jack

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If you can not run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!

I tried to play nice with you last post and you just didn't get it.

I also would like to see someone show me anywhere when he as helped out a non-paying costumer.

No problem. I built an Archie kitted SBC but I didn't spend a dime with him to get it, I bought it from a kid that started the swap and couldn't complete it. Archie spent quite a bit of time on the phone with me, as well as sending me the tape (no charge), and even a couple of replacement items. If you'd like, I can go to the archives and find you more examples just like that.

Another example? How about donating $500 of his own money so the track day could happen at Wheatstock a couple years ago. He even bought an entry for himself and the GT4T but never ran.

Heck I was a paying costumer once and he did not treat me like others claim. I could not get crap for help.

Gosh, with your attitude, I wonder why? Archie definitely has his own way about him and if he doesn't want to deal with you he won't. Anyone I've seen that he didn't want to deal with, I wouldn't particularly want to either. Archie's not a kid, his reputation and integrity speak for themselves based on years of dealings with the Fiero Community, and he has no desire, nor requirement, to take crap from anyone.

I guess you never read any of my build threads or all of the lies he tells people.

No. I try not to clutter my mind with useless information. A link would be nice.

You have to notch out the trany to get one of the bolts in the adapter plate it is in the tape you get.

Actually, no. Now that you mention it, there is a very tiny bit of aluminum on the bellhousing that needs to be removed for bolt head clearance so the transmission will bolt to the plate. Or, IIRC, you can use an allen headed capscrew like I did and not grind anything. I don't have the car here at the moment, (It's at the paint shop) so I can't go look. No way can you compare that to taking that chunk of aluminum out of the transmission housing for the 4.9 starter.

I would also say that if you were a stand up guy if you say something that is not true and get proven wrong you will apologize like a real man.

What did I say that was untrue? I didn't claim the picture posted was Dan's motor OR that Archie built the motor in the other picture. What do I have to apologize for, and especially apologize to YOU? For pointing out your bad manners (not to mention almost incomprehensible grammar)? When I get my car back, I'll look for a spot that required grinding. I don't think I ground anything, but we'll see. If I did, I'll take a picture of it and point it out and admit to my mistake in memory. Other than that...go pound sand.

The starter he sells is a mini starter you can buy it anywhere and most don’t use it because the 4.9 starter works great and is a lot cheaper or you get it with the motor in most cases.

So, don't buy the starter from him. Since you absolutely KNOW which one will work without cutting the bellhousing, perhaps you'd like to share the manufacturer's name and the model number so those that don't want to hack up their bellhousings won't have to by spending a little money on the starter. What's that? You don't KNOW for sure which ones will work? Huh. Imagine that.

Please tell me how I’m doing like him so I can stop: all my threads try to help people and I just pointed out the truth about the pictures just because I see the truth in someone and let it be known a lot of people try to put me down but show me one time I was not trying to help out others or not trying to put sugar on vinegar.

How is the post I'm responding to now trying to help anyone out other than you attempting to put down Archie?

You say Archie tells lies and puts people down, then you write: "I was not there but I heard he showed his true colors in Daytona also correct me if I am wrong" You weren't at Daytona, you have no firsthand knowledge about anything Archie did or did not do, but throw a statement out like that. For the record, I suspect you're right, he probably DID show his true colors in that he offered a lot of experienced advice to a lot of people that came by to ask, he probably also gave a lot of stuff away, and he spent a lot of his own money (just like a ton of other Fiero vendors did and we should be grateful to them all) just to get to the show. He probably also offended a person or two that has an attitude similar to yours and he didn't want to screw with them. Such is life, get over it.

Don't forget that you are trying to be a vendor in this small community too. I've done 4-4.9 swaps, along with other engines. I'm going to be doing a lot more. Guess where my wiring harnesses WON'T be coming from. (BTW, how many swaps have YOU personally done? You're not the only one that can see through the BS.)

John Stricker

Edited to fix quote tags

quote Originally posted by F355spider: I guess you never read any of my build threads or all of the lies he tells people. I was not there but I heard he showed his true colors in Daytona also correct me if I am wrong. I also would like to see someone show me anywhere when he as helped out a non-paying costumer. Heck I was a paying costumer once and he did not treat me like others claim. I could not get crap for help. You have to notch out the trany to get one of the bolts in the adapter plate it is in the tape you get. I would also say that if you were a stand up guy if you say something that is not true and get proven wrong you will apologize like a real man. The starter he sells is a mini starter you can buy it anywhere and most don’t use it because the 4.9 starter works great and is a lot cheaper or you get it with the motor in most cases. Please tell me how I’m doing like him so I can stop: all my threads try to help people and I just pointed out the truth about the pictures just because I see the truth in someone and let it be known a lot of people try to put me down but show me one time I was not trying to help out others or not trying to put sugar on vinegar.

[This message has been edited by jstricker (edited 04-08-2006).]

The red 4.9 in the picture above is mine. I posted it to show Archie that not all 4.9 installs were hacks. He seemed OK with it. I don't blame him for being put off by that other bell housing, it was extreme. I was sort of embarrased at how mine turned out as well as it was my first attempt. The 'notch' is more like a hole and doesn't need to be NEARLY that large. I've since made an aluminum cover for it and sealed it so that rain and dirt can't get in.

But to tell you the truth, Rockcrawl has the notching down. Here's a picture of one of his from his website and I think that's about as good as it gets:

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-Rick Stewart
85GT 5.0CaddyV8/Getrag 5-spd in progress...
www.V8Fiero.com

quote Originally posted by jstricker: You should be. Email Eric and he'll fix you're problem with it. John Stricker

I am working on it, I swear. Bear - PM me your email address so I can recreate the account.

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