Note I said can a clutch be to strong for an engine, rather than can the clutch be too strong for street use. (I am aware that some clutches are too grabby for street use, but will a clutch react the same on a 92hp low torque motor as on a 220hp nearly 300lbs of torque motor)

I have a Centerforce V8 Archie clutch on my 4.9 Isuzu 5spd car, and it grabs rather well. Enough that it can overpower my 245/50/16's from a rolling start. Which makes me happy.

Now a friend of mine was using an older 70's Split Bumper Corvette as his daily driver and due to fear of damage and rising fuel prices has decided to buy a 4 popper Fiero. We have spent the past few days fixing all the little things with it. But it is going to need a new clutch. We jokingly said ah hell why don't you toss in a V8 clutch.

My question is can we do it without any adverse problems. We know the
Centerforce Pressure Plate fits in the Isuzu bell housing without issue. We
also know the Isuzu flywheel will accept the Centerforce pressure plate.

We are aware that it is more than double the price of a stock 4 banger clutch, but if he can get a longer life out of it he will be more than happy to pay the extra.

Any opinions?

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85GT 5spd ,93 Eldorado 4.9 Dual O2 Custom Chip, Archie Clutch. Custom Exhaust. MSD Everything 245/50/16's Cant wait for Dyno Time and Track Results. Not Your Average 4.9 Capt Fiero Com --- My Over View Cadero Pics Delta Cam and Allante Intake Soon.

well, if it wasn't for the law of friction, i'd guess that it would almost last forever, so it'll last forever minus one day

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Well my opinion would be that a grabby clutch would put uneven friction forces on the flywheel, regardless of engine. On a duke the effect might be to cause the engine to bog as the ecm could not cause the engine to react quickly enough to overcome those varying forces without foot fulls of throttle. I would surmise then that at some point such a clutch 'could' actually be too powerful such that even at WOT the engine could not adjust to the varying loads. However I'd think you'd need one heck of a left leg to push such a clutch.
Also of concern (tho not I here I guess) is that as clutch pressure increases so does the force required to disengage it and that is going to put additional stres on all the related components back to the cluch pedal, particularly the throw out bearing.

Just my thoughts, feel free to correct me if wrong but it sounds right to me (which means nothing really )

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Dave E

www.ltlfrari.com

Can a clutch be to powerful? In a word no. Once the clutch is engaged it locks the engine to the transmission. thats what is suppose to do. The problem with heavy pressure plates and clutch discs all has to do with engagement and keeping the clutch from slipping. The lighter the load the lighter the spring force needed to keep it from slipping, and the lighter the dampening springs need to be. Also the clutch diameter will determine the amount of sping force needed, the bigger the clutch the more friction area the less pressure. This is why the V8s or high output V6s have a problem in the Fiero, the bellhousings are small and cannot fit a large flywheel. Therefore the use of a large diameter clutch disc is not an option. So now the only option is to stack discs to get more friction area, use stronger springs to apply more pressure or use a different material that grabs better.

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Signature courtesy of MinnGreen.

[This message has been edited by Fiero STS (edited 02-01-2006).]

I doubt you will run into engine stalling problems either on low output engines and grabby clutches because you would naturally adjust clutch engagement or more accurately your clutch engagement rate in the same manner you do when you hop in a different vehicle you have never driven before that has a different pedal pressure and engagement rate than what you drive everyday. It took me nearly a week to adjust to a new clutch master cylinder and slave cylinder install because the improved travel delayed my normal anticipated clutch engagement point and I burned my clutch a little on speed shifts due to the change in clutch and accelerator timing

quote Originally posted by Capt Fiero: Note I said can a clutch be to strong for an engine, rather than can the clutch be too strong for street use. (I am aware that some clutches are too grabby for street use, but will a clutch react the same on a 92hp low torque motor as on a 220hp nearly 300lbs of torque motor) I have a Centerforce V8 Archie clutch on my 4.9 Isuzu 5spd car, and it grabs rather well. Enough that it can overpower my 245/50/16's from a rolling start. Which makes me happy. Now a friend of mine was using an older 70's Split Bumper Corvette as his daily driver and due to fear of damage and rising fuel prices has decided to buy a 4 popper Fiero. We have spent the past few days fixing all the little things with it. But it is going to need a new clutch. We jokingly said ah hell why don't you toss in a V8 clutch. My question is can we do it without any adverse problems. We know the Centerforce Pressure Plate fits in the Isuzu bell housing without issue. We also know the Isuzu flywheel will accept the Centerforce pressure plate. We are aware that it is more than double the price of a stock 4 banger clutch, but if he can get a longer life out of it he will be more than happy to pay the extra. Any opinions?

It's very doubtful that you would get a longer life from the clutch, and depending on the type of clutch hub and friction material, I might even say that life would be shorter. I can't see any good reason to use a stronger-than-stock clutch on an Iron Duke.

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My Web page | The Turbo Super Duty Build.
You know that little voice that says it can't be done? I duct-taped mine's mouth shut and pushed it down a flight of stairs.

In the way that you pose the question, there is no clutch that is too much for the smaller engine, but there are a couple of other things to consider. A heavier clutch will have a higher spring rate, which will mean greater clutch pedal effort, but more importantly, the force that is required to release the clutch is borne by the thrust bearings on the crankshaft. A heavier clutch will wear these out faster. That is usually not a problem, but it could become one given a high enough spring rate.

I have Archie's CenterForce clutch on my Formula (with an all-stock drivetrain), and it works great.

My logic was the same as your friend's - I got tired of having problems with cheap crap clutches, so I went straight to (what I consider to be) the top.

When (if?) this one dies, I'm gonna do the same thing all over again. It's been well, well worth it.

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Patrick W. Heinske -- LZeitgeist@aol.com
1988 Red Fiero Formula Convertible
*Desktop Photo Here*

Well seeing as I am using the Archie clutch with my isuzu and parts I am assuming the Isuze hydralics can handle it without issue.

We are going heed everyones advice and go from there.

Thanks a ton for all the quick responses. Pluses all around.

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85GT 5spd ,93 Eldorado 4.9 Dual O2 Custom Chip, Archie Clutch. Custom Exhaust. MSD Everything 245/50/16's Cant wait for Dyno Time and Track Results. Not Your Average 4.9 Capt Fiero Com --- My Over View Cadero Pics Delta Cam and Allante Intake Soon.

quote Originally posted by Tom Piantanida: In the way that you pose the question, there is no clutch that is too much for the smaller engine, but there are a couple of other things to consider. A heavier clutch will have a higher spring rate, which will mean greater clutch pedal effort, but more importantly, the force that is required to release the clutch is borne by the thrust bearings on the crankshaft. A heavier clutch will wear these out faster. That is usually not a problem, but it could become one given a high enough spring rate.

Very good point I had not originally tought of this. You are right this is a downside of to heaver springs in the pressure plate.

Well we have looked over it all and he is probably going skip a dual friction clutch and just go with a good V6 clutch.

Thanks for all the info guys.

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85GT 5spd ,93 Eldorado 4.9 Dual O2 Custom Chip, Archie Clutch. Custom Exhaust. MSD Everything 245/50/16's Cant wait for Dyno Time and Track Results. Not Your Average 4.9 Capt Fiero Com --- My Over View Cadero Pics Delta Cam and Allante Intake Soon.

Higher performance clutches usually have LESS friction material, thus they wear faster. Higher clamping force but reduced life.

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"DRIVE IT LIKE A FIERO"
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